Heads: my D80E's vs. these E7TE's

[yobarry]

Ok so I was on here a few days ago asking about my D80 heads http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=77903 and basically what I have gathered is that the E7's are much more desirable. So I talked a guy out of a pair of E7TE's for free and got them home to compare them to my D80E's only to find no difference in the combustion chamber. And my "junk" D80's have bigger valves anyways. So what makes the E7's so much better.
The E7TE's


The D80E's

[TuxStang]

Smaller chambers and smaller smog bumps for the E7s ... except that, they are pretty much the same factory "crap".

[Peganit2]

Look closer. The E7T heads do have a smaller chamber. The D's look like earlier 351W heads.


I wouldn't say that they are "much" better, but better.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Larger valves doesn't always equal more flow. Look at the GT40P heads...they downsized the exhaust valve to 1.54 and they still flow just as much as the non P heads with 1.60s.

[yobarry]

Look closer. The E7T heads do have a smaller chamber.

Ok I see it now. Theres a little more metal right near the spark plug on the E7's. It was last night when I was looking at them.

Larger valves doesn't always equal more flow. Look at the GT40P heads...they downsized the exhaust valve to 1.54 and they still flow just as much as the non P heads with 1.60s.

Im no head expert but if you had two exactly the same heads given the same exact ports wouldnt bigger valves flow more air? Unless the port is already maxed out and cant flow more. So Im guessing the GT40 and GT40P have different port designs. Im fairly positive that if i had bigger valves installed in the E7's they would flow more than stock.

So heres the question, would i be better off getting a little more air/fuel at a lower compression ratio (the D80E). Or a little less mixture at higher compression ratio (the E7TE)? I know everyone seems to automatically go for that higher compression option but it seem like a toss up here in my case.

Sure wish I knew someone with a flow bench! Or where to find some flow charts.

[Peganit2]

good challenge.

Let's find out.

[Cappn Tripps]

http://www.carbdford.com/tech/flowdata.htm

Stole this from thew carbed ford forum

I had my DE (302) castings with a small amount of bowl work/thermactor bumps removed and 1.90/1.60 valves flowed at a reputable shop. These can be purchased from www.aeroheads.com. The castings varied in combustion chamber cc from 66-69 cc's so the quality is just okay.

.100 to .500 intake cfm @28" H2O
58
118
161
171
176

.100 to .500 exhaust
53
106
134
144
145

[yobarry]

Thank for that link Cappn Tripps, I suck at searching for things I can never come up with what i need, now if there was a chart for the D80's I would be set.

[Peganit2]

I thought your heads looked odd. D heads aren't supposed to have big valves in them. What were your D8 heads off of?

Throw a scale on the valves. Maybe it's an illusion that they're bigger.

D0OE 351W heads flow pretty good on the intake and very poorly on the exhaust, though I personally had a set way back when that had NO semblance of a thermactor bump. It looked like those exhaust would have flown well I think.

@ .500 lift D0OE heads flowed 181 intake, 114 exhaust.
@ .500 lift GT40 heads flowed 216 intake, 149 exhaust

Still looking for the E7T heads #

[yobarry]

Well they are definetly bigger valves, Im not near the heads and a caliper right now but Im positive they are bigger. Im guessing like 1.90 / 1.60 or something in that area.

I have no idea what they came off of originally I would again, guess a 351.

I pretty much have decided to try out the E7's. They cant be worse than what I had from what I hear. If I feel no increase, oh well. If it feels worse I throw the D80's back on. Simple as that.

Thanks everyone!

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Ok I see it now. Theres a little more metal right near the spark plug on the E7's. It was last night when I was looking at them.



Im no head expert but if you had two exactly the same heads given the same exact ports wouldnt bigger valves flow more air? Unless the port is already maxed out and cant flow more. So Im guessing the GT40 and GT40P have different port designs. Im fairly positive that if i had bigger valves installed in the E7's they would flow more than stock.

So heres the question, would i be better off getting a little more air/fuel at a lower compression ratio (the D80E). Or a little less mixture at higher compression ratio (the E7TE)? I know everyone seems to automatically go for that higher compression option but it seem like a toss up here in my case.

Sure wish I knew someone with a flow bench! Or where to find some flow charts.

The P heads flow better because of a better exhaust port design. I guess i should've added that as justification on why the valves are smaller. But yea, if you take P's and put 1.60s in them, you can get more flow but you ALSO get less velocity if you don't port them...that's a big deal. Big valves are only half the equation...you need good port velocity to fill the heads up fast.

Personally, i wouldn't put a penny into either E7 or E8 head...i'd just get the GT40s or P's. I know that's easy to say when i'm not the one coughing up the cash, but they just flow better and would probably be just as cheap to buy as it would be to change valve sizes in your heads once you get them ground out. I've always heard the non P heads took their design from the '69-70 C9 heads but i've never saw any proof of that, and those are some of the best production Windsor heads you can get.

[Ford'sCapri]

If your D8 heads have bigger valves that means someone put them there. They should have the same size valves as the E7's

[insane85mustang]

what is either of these heads capable of HP wise if fully ported?

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

what is either of these heads capable of HP wise if fully ported?

Depends on who ports them. Thumper's E7s typically make ~260ish at the wheels with supporting bolt ons.

[insane85mustang]

would E7's be the factory head on an '86 351w?and would it still only be 260 with the mods in my sig and all magnum valvetrain with roller rockers and 10:1 comp?

[Ford'sCapri]

would E7's be the factory head on an '86 351w?and would it still only be 260 with the mods in my sig and all magnum valvetrain with roller rockers and 10:1 comp?

E7 heads are 1987 and later cylinder heads. Your 351W probably has the D8 or E5 heads.

[insane85mustang]

oh great lol. so what do u think for hp numbers for my setup?

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

What are the specs on your cam? It'll really come down to the heads and cam. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because it's a 351 that it has to make more power than a bolt on 302...lots of guys get a big disappointment with that way of thinking. You'll make more torque but not necessarily more horsepower.

[insane85mustang]

its a compcam 280H magnum dur 230@.050 and .512 lift

[Peganit2]

Personally, i wouldn't put a penny into either E7 or E8 head...i'd just get the GT40s or P's. I know that's easy to say when i'm not the one coughing up the cash, but they just flow better and would probably be just as cheap to buy as it would be to change valve sizes in your heads once you get them ground out. I've always heard the non P heads took their design from the '69-70 C9 heads but i've never saw any proof of that, and those are some of the best production Windsor heads you can get.

I agree 100% on not putting any money into those older heads unless there is an originality factor involved. I looked into having a set of 84 GT 302's just rebuilt and it was going to cost me $600. That's a little over half way to a good name brand new set of aluminum heads. No way. And you can get good used p heads for $300 or less if you're patient. The low milage E7s' I used were free.

The 351W heads I mentioned in an earlier post, IIRC, were, C9 heads, the ones without any emissions bump at all.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

The heads i have on my 347 are C9's, but they've been ported to hell and back and have big valves in them so they're not really good for comparison sake. Just think of the C9s as the best the factory could do on a 351W back when emissions wasn't something they had to deal with. If you take these heads and mill them down to a 58cc bowl and port them out decently and put some 1.90 valves in them, they'll kick some serious ass. Again though you're looking at putting an easy $500 into them which is half way to some decent aluminum heads. When i got my C9s they were already ported and set up for larger valves..i just had to buy new valves and get a valve job for them. In the end with what i paid for them and the work i put in them, i've got around $740 into them, but that's over the span of about 4 years so it didn't hurt so bad, and they've proven themselves to perform quite well.

As for this issue...i've seen complete Explorer engines for as cheap as $300. With that you get an EFI intake that you can sell for at least $100 and recoup some money, plus you can sell the short block if you don't need it. If you're creative you can almost profit a few bucks while getting yourself a set of GT40P heads for basically free.

Check out http://www.car-part.com/ that's where i found the $300 Explorer engine. You can even find really low mileage ones that would be great to just drop in complete but you'll spend more for them.

[yobarry]

Well as soon as cash starts flowing again (work) I plan on getting a pair of Edelbrock Performers. Im just trying to get the most from what I have right now. And actually the E7's are torqued down as of about 20 minutes ago.

Just gotta drop the lifters and push rods in, do the valves, and get the right crossmember for my T5 swap, then drop in the engine, connect the peripherals and fire 'er up. Should be running tomorrow!

Thanks for all the info!

[Peganit2]

Check out http://www.car-part.com/

Great site!!! thanks for the tip!!

[Ford'sCapri]

The heads i have on my 347 are C9's, but they've been ported to hell and back and have big valves in them so they're not really good for comparison sake. Just think of the C9s as the best the factory could do on a 351W back when emissions wasn't something they had to deal with. If you take these heads and mill them down to a 58cc bowl and port them out decently and put some 1.90 valves in them, they'll kick some serious ass. Again though you're looking at putting an easy $500 into them which is half way to some decent aluminum heads. When i got my C9s they were already ported and set up for larger valves..i just had to buy new valves and get a valve job for them. In the end with what i paid for them and the work i put in them, i've got around $740 into them, but that's over the span of about 4 years so it didn't hurt so bad, and they've proven themselves to perform quite well.

As for this issue...i've seen complete Explorer engines for as cheap as $300. With that you get an EFI intake that you can sell for at least $100 and recoup some money, plus you can sell the short block if you don't need it. If you're creative you can almost profit a few bucks while getting yourself a set of GT40P heads for basically free.

Check out http://www.car-part.com/ that's where i found the $300 Explorer engine. You can even find really low mileage ones that would be great to just drop in complete but you'll spend more for them.

My D0 351W heads have a huge emissions bump in the exhaust port. Did your C9's not have them to start with or was it taken out when the heads were ported?

[Peganit2]

Nothing done whatsoever to the C9 heads I had. No bump from the factory.