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  1. #1

    Default Correct oil for flat tappet 302

    After much research, a question for the group on the preferred oil weight for a flat tappet 302. 3300 miles on a fresh build ...TIA.

  2. #2

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    oil weight selection is a function of clearances in the engine. Tight clearances call for a lighter weight, loose clearances call for a heavier weight. Assuming this engine was most likely built with 0.001"-0.003" oil clearance, 10W-30 would be a safe choice. HOWEVER, the more prevalent concern is the additive package. A flat tappet cam and lifter assembly, made from soft iron, requires a significant ratio of zinc in the oil. Modern gasoline engine oils, beginning about 15 years ago, have stripped out the zinc, due to pollution concerns. Lack of zinc will cause the cam lobes and lifters to 'wipe', or grind against one another, catastrophically damaging both. The solution is run an oil engineered specifically for flat tappet engines, such as Brad Penn oil, or to use a zinc (ZDDP) additive in a current spec oil, such as offered by Eastwood. At worst, look for an oil that meets API (American Petroleum Institute) category SJ, as this oil still contains some zinc. Current category is SN, and use of anything post SJ (SL, SM, SN) will cause severe damage, if used without the zinc additive. I prefer to use diesel rated CH-4, as this contains high pressure additives, along with a sufficient amount of zinc, to protect soft iron surfaces. CH-4 can be found in 10W-30, 15W-40, and 20W-50 fairly easily.
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    +1 on above

    my comments are that a high detergent oil like Mobile conventional oil is advantageous in the long run.

    Do make sure you run plenty of zinc.

    ive always had great luck with also using Teflon additives like Slick50 as well.

  4. #4

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    I run Mobil 1 Regular (not racing) 15W50 in my K Code HiPo solid lifter Mustangs. It is the only weight with the correct amount of zinc. Here is a link to the specs. Look on page 2. Note that under "Consumer Applications" it states: Flat tappet aplications. The other good news is that you can find that weight at most Walmarts.
    https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf
    65 K Code GT Silver Smoke Gray
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  5. #5
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FB71 View Post
    oil weight selection is a function of clearances in the engine. Tight clearances call for a lighter weight, loose clearances call for a heavier weight. Assuming this engine was most likely built with 0.001"-0.003" oil clearance, 10W-30 would be a safe choice. HOWEVER, the more prevalent concern is the additive package. A flat tappet cam and lifter assembly, made from soft iron, requires a significant ratio of zinc in the oil. Modern gasoline engine oils, beginning about 15 years ago, have stripped out the zinc, due to pollution concerns. Lack of zinc will cause the cam lobes and lifters to 'wipe', or grind against one another, catastrophically damaging both. The solution is run an oil engineered specifically for flat tappet engines, such as Brad Penn oil, or to use a zinc (ZDDP) additive in a current spec oil, such as offered by Eastwood. At worst, look for an oil that meets API (American Petroleum Institute) category SJ, as this oil still contains some zinc. Current category is SN, and use of anything post SJ (SL, SM, SN) will cause severe damage, if used without the zinc additive. I prefer to use diesel rated CH-4, as this contains high pressure additives, along with a sufficient amount of zinc, to protect soft iron surfaces. CH-4 can be found in 10W-30, 15W-40, and 20W-50 fairly easily.
    Good write up. I will additionally say that CH-4 is being phased out for CJ-4...at least here in H-town. I have had to go from Delo to Super Tech brand of oil for our diesels because of this.
    HAD
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  6. #6

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    Valvoline VR1 10/30 oil in my solid lifter 347. Has zinc already in it. I've also used the Brad Penn but it looks dirty right out of the bottle, lol. Plus , the VR1 is right around the corner at Napa.
    Last edited by Hammer Down; 11-22-2017 at 01:24 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    All excellent recommendations and info. FYI, I'm not endorsing Brad Penn oil or Eastwood products, simply using them as examples.
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  8. #8

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    I used Joe Gibbs break-in oil on a flat tappet 331 (COMP lifters and camshaft). It was recommenced to me by an experienced professional machinist.

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Whatever viscosity the machinist said to run
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  10. #10

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    rotellla 15-40 . yes it's "diesel" oil, but I have been running it in my foxes for 20 years.
    1986 GT T Top- stock except for magnaflow cat back
    1990 LX vert- 500hp V3 and all that stuff
    2013 GT- usual bolt ons

  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member liv2roc's Avatar
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    I changed the cam in my 84 mustang about 7 years ago and did not know modern oil does not have zinc anymore and wiped 2 lopes off my cam and it took out the oil pump. I replaced the engine with a roller motor so don't have to worry about that anymore. But a had a 76 f100 with a 302 and I ran the zinc additive in it to be safe.

  12. #12

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    Is the zinc a necessity with a solid roller cam as well as flap tappet?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer Down View Post
    Is the zinc a necessity with a solid roller cam as well as flap tappet?
    No. Roller cams are steel, much harder. Only the iron flat tappet cams need the zinc. Rollers are safe with any modern engine oil.

    Just for clarity, 'solid roller' means there's no hydraulic adjustment to tappet preload. Solid or hydraulic are not affected by the zinc content. Only flat vs roller.
    Last edited by FB71; 11-22-2017 at 08:16 PM.
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by FB71 View Post
    No. Roller cams are steel, much harder. Only the iron flat tappet cams need the zinc. Rollers are safe with any modern engine oil.

    Just for clarity, 'solid roller' means there's no hydraulic adjustment to tappet preload. Solid or hydraulic are not affected by the zinc content. Only flat vs roller.
    For sale: Case of VR1 10w30 Racing oil. Lol.!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer Down View Post
    For sale: Case of VR1 10w30 Racing oil. Lol.!
    Dino or synthetic.....and how much??

  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member
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    In the past few years, I have installed new flat tappet solid lifter cams in 3 of my engines, my 331 SB Ford, 427 FE Ford, both for my drag cars, and a FE 428 Cobra Jet for my 59 Ford street car. All 3 were broke in with lighter valve springs and high zinc break in oil, and all have been using Brad Penn 10-30 since. All 3 engines were properly broken in on my buddys engine dyno, and all are good running, happy engines. There may well be other oils that would work just as good, but the Brad Penn was recommended by a racing friend who owns Oregon Cam in Vancouver Washington, and it works well, so I see no reason to change oil brands.
    1978 Fairmont 2 door sedan, 428CJ 4speed. 9.972ET@132.54mph. 1.29 60 foot
    Replaced the FE big block with my 331/4 speed in my Fairmont, best 10.24ET @128 MPH.
    1985 Mustang LX hatchback NHRA Stock Eliminator 302 4 speed best in legal trim 12.31@107 mph, but has gone 11.42@115 with aftermarket intake, carb, and iron Windsor Jr. heads.New for 2012! 331 cube SB Ford, AFR 185 heads, solid flat tappet cam, pump gas; 10.296ET@128.71 mph, 1.37 60 foot.
    1979 Zephyr Z7, all original 302 auto, 2nd owner.

  17. #17

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    So here is my question if you have to use the other oil, how much zinc additive do you use to an oil change?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjltthomas View Post
    So here is my question if you have to use the other oil, how much zinc additive do you use to an oil change?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    whatever ratio is stated on the bottle of additive.
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by FB71 View Post
    whatever ratio is stated on the bottle of additive.
    Seems easy enough.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #20

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    I remember my dad using Marvel Mystery Oil back in the early 80’s in his 78 Trans Am. He swore by it. Then as time went on people said it was worthless. Guess it was because of roller motors.


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  21. #21

    Default

    MMO contains a chlorinated solvent that was useful for preventing sludge buildup common with older oils. I do NOT recommend it be used any longer, with modern engine oils and their superior additive packages.
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FB71 View Post
    MMO contains a chlorinated solvent that was useful for preventing sludge buildup common with older oils. I do NOT recommend it be used any longer, with modern engine oils and their superior additive packages.
    There is one prevention to sludge buildup... back in the caves, what used to be called oil changes.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    There is one prevention to sludge buildup... back in the caves, what used to be called oil changes.
    Agreed, to a point.

    Older oils with little to no detergent packages would begin to sludge immediately upon exposure to heat an combustion gasses. Mind you, I'm talking about stuff 30+ years ago...
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  24. #24

    Default

    I've been using what Canadian Tire here calls "heavy duty" no-name straight 30W engine oil during the warmer months for going on 40 years, in flat tappet camshaft applications, including the proper (2500rpm for 30 minutes) break-in of a couple of brand new rebuilt ones, and never any issues... we used to change oil every 2000 miles... since the bastards that be instilled the metric system here, call it every 3000 kilometers is when I dump engine oil... and again, never any issue, with this 3.8L V6 I run now and V8's in the past, takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FB71 View Post
    oil weight selection is a function of clearances in the engine. Tight clearances call for a lighter weight, loose clearances call for a heavier weight. Assuming this engine was most likely built with 0.001"-0.003" oil clearance, 10W-30 would be a safe choice. HOWEVER, the more prevalent concern is the additive package. A flat tappet cam and lifter assembly, made from soft iron, requires a significant ratio of zinc in the oil. Modern gasoline engine oils, beginning about 15 years ago, have stripped out the zinc, due to pollution concerns. Lack of zinc will cause the cam lobes and lifters to 'wipe', or grind against one another, catastrophically damaging both. The solution is run an oil engineered specifically for flat tappet engines, such as Brad Penn oil, or to use a zinc (ZDDP) additive in a current spec oil, such as offered by Eastwood. At worst, look for an oil that meets API (American Petroleum Institute) category SJ, as this oil still contains some zinc. Current category is SN, and use of anything post SJ (SL, SM, SN) will cause severe damage, if used without the zinc additive. I prefer to use diesel rated CH-4, as this contains high pressure additives, along with a sufficient amount of zinc, to protect soft iron surfaces. CH-4 can be found in 10W-30, 15W-40, and 20W-50 fairly easily.
    +1 on the Brad Penn. It can be had for a very good price on Amazon.

    I generally run the 20-50 after cam break in. However, I've only ever broken in cams using Joe Gibbs because that's what multiple good machine shops I've spoken to have recommended. I'm not an expert since I've only broken in the flat tappet cams but I believe the advice I was given was sound.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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