82 mustang gt TRX question

[tsbulldog1]

i know this may be a dumb question but i just wanna make sure on some thing. If a 82 GT came stock with the TRX rims does that mean it has the TRX suspension as well? Im looking at a car and i jus wanna double check on some stuff.

[FoxChassis]

The TRX suspension and the TRX wheels & tires were part of the TRX package. You couldn't get anything separate. It was all or none.

[Bruce Mohacsy]

Yo!
My understanding is this....
The TRX package was wheels, tires, shocks, springs, sway bars and bushings researched, tested, refined and released to market to create a better, more "European" handling mustang. I have a bone stock 1982 GT that handles just fine in the real world and when parts wear out that were part of this package I replace them with carefully researched parts that offer the same function (spring rates, shock damping, etc.) in the same way as the originals. I feel that it's unreasonable to replace them with generic "Pep Boys" style parts or even high quality high performance upgrades unless you plan on carefully rethinking the whole suspension system. For example: If I just add stiffer sway bar bushings, that will make the front bar work harder and change the load on the springs, changing the way the front end reacts with the rear under certain load conditions, etc. etc. I may have actually created a car that works poorer at the limit and because I rarely reach that limit on public roads I have no REAL way of finding out until I get there. (On public roads) I personally think the TRX stuff was very cool for the period and deserves preservation. It's the harder road for sure but still satisfying in it's own way!
.......but that's just one guys opinion.
Bruce

[xctasy]

It comes down do dollars and idealism.

When you see someone following a cost is everything philosphy, it ultimately ruins the overall effect for the stock premuim versions.

The Ferrari guys and, to a lessor extent, BMW owners bitch and moan about the expense of TRX tires more than Fox TRX owners...you'd think it would be the other way around since many feel the Fox cars are low rent, and not real Mustangs, Cougars and Tbirds or Fairmonts and Futuras at all...the acceptance of the Fox is that it was an econo throwaway fun car like the old Falcon and Mustang was.

As soon as the TRX package, the turbos, the t-tops, the factory hot GT 5.0 carb and intake upgrades, EEC injection, the AOD, the quadrashock, the Saleen racing, the convertables and the SVO's, suddenly people realised the Fox sub chassis was able to built to perform on the best budget of any car, and when Ford got it wrong, they dang well fixed it with a delightfully American Stromin Norman S hammer. The IRS, 5.0 and 2.3 Turbo EFI hot rod industry is able to craft the hardest, fastest rides the world has ever known, so its not like someone using Pep Boys bits its ever going to ruin the whole Fox car juggernaught.

One thing In will say, the TRX kits in there fullness are good, but obsolete technology, so they can be replacled without the owner being looked at as being a promoter of sacralidge. The homage just has to be paid in part. I think the European Ferrari and BMW and Renault Alpine and R5Turbo owners have ensured their sometimes indifferent patronage for replacement Michelin, Donlop, Avon and Croker millimetric tires has ensured you can run full house 220,230, 240 or even 280 section tires at a cost that is offset by the incredable savings on drivetrain, suspension performance bits.

I've looked at the costs, and decided the Fox car is just like the X shell Mustangs from 64.5 to 73...the worlds most popular , affordable classic ever.

I'm gald 69 and 70 Boss 302 and 429 and Mach 1's down run around on Polyglass Tires and stock shocker and springs.

[Bruce Mohacsy]

I get we're you are coming from. Before my GT I was the unfortunate owner of a vintage Mercedes SL. Talk about s**t on a stick! They were expensive to buy, expensive to run, slow and expensive to repair. Now they are cheap to buy, expensive to restore, less reliable than the Mustang and WAY slower! (However, better handling.....?) What I personally love about the 82-83-84 Stangs is the value. I love this period because of their simplicity and honesty. They are as easy as it gets to work on, parts are cheap and plentiful and you can take them anywhere your imagination lets you! Try any of that with vintage Euro.....
My earlier point was this: I feel there is a case to be made these days for preserving a number of these cars as stock. Quick looks on Kijiji, Craig's List and E-Bay reveal just how few completely original cars are on the market. Most (99.99999%) have some sort of mod that is designed to "modernize" them. While I completely get the whole performance industry, some of us get our rocks off keeping our daily drivers as time machines. I think people that put poly glass tires on their vintage Mustangs have gone down the path towards autos as investments. In this regard, I get them. Personally I don't agree with bias ply tires on a daily driver though..... But that's just me.

What I don't get is people indiscriminately throwing mods at a Fox without doing careful research. The Internet is full of stock, flexible, un sorted chassis with 500hp strokers in them. Or radically lowered scrape queens with big brake and tire mods that swap ends the moment you turn the wheel or hit a bump. What I was talking about was encouraging people to be analytical,methodical and thoughtful when going down the modernization route. Maximum Motor Sports seems like such a cool company to me. People that race and developer their products through racing. Strong R&D. A variety of products designed to work together and real advice based on knowledge, not marketing. (No, I don't work for them!)
The main point being.... The TRX package was way more than just wheels and tires.

[xctasy]

Sorry about spelling, long night burning midnight oil. The dyslexia sets in.

If kept as time machines, you do well with the TRX pacakge. Ford spent billions making sure problems were fixed. The TRX package controls impact harshness better than many, it makes a Porsche 928 feel like a hard riding buck. The total package is hard to improve on, all the later tires and bushes and shock combos tend to have problems. If your racing, hard bushes, and stiff dampers will do the job, at a price to impact harshness..

That's why I stick with bigger, better versions of the stock TRX tires. The big Michelins are a huge amount of fun.

A Fox mit IRS and a Saleen style stiffene kit and the later post 86 geometry will eclispse any Benz for accuracy. ZF power steering misses critical on centre fell, and the semi trailing arm or multi link IRS systems lack control at the limit. Ford did all the right things with the 2003 Cobra IRS, yet again another hugely missunderstood Fo Mo Co advance. Like the lexus style Modular engines, it was in many ways way to good for us common folk.

I've spent a lot of time in my mates MB's, and they lack the variable ratio rack and pinion precision, a standard ZF recuirculating ball steering issue that Ford got rid of the moment it ditched the Bishops Kirby power steering when the last X cars were made in America in the 1981 Granada, and in Australia in the 1997 Falcon pickup. Dynamically, the last SN Mustang had all the elements of a modern day Jag XJS in its make up.

I'm okay with updating. In 1965, the Mustang IRS was shown. Dynamically, it would have shifted the Pony car forward into a Mountain Lion. It took about 36 years for Ford Dearborn to perfect the art of great rear suspensions, maybee they'll do it again.

Dynamic excellence must be lead by Ford. There are too many variances in vehicle tune for the public to do the job only Ford engineers with there specialist suppliers can do. Shelby, Saleen, Roush et al. The others are just doing a compliance reduction nin hope of dynamics improvement. The cheap solutions don't work long term. Ford went from four bar, to LSD, to slapper bars to quad shocks to rework ackerman to SVO to SN to IRS for a reason, they had to get results economically by amortizing the orginal set up parameters. I don't see rock hard bushes and hard tires in any of those land mark progressions.

[Bruce Mohacsy]

I have never felt a worse steering car than the recirculating ball steering in my 83 SL. I must have had it in the shop 5 times for adjustment before the technician gave me "that look" and told me that they are **** and I should get on with my life. A new Mercedes steering box is $4,500.00 and it tracks like a 1932 ford. A mustang rack is a couple of hundred and feels great.
So I have two questions.....

I need new TRXs. What would you do. Coker? Does Michelin even stock them anymore? What size? 190's,220's?, etc., etc....

I need a new rack (power assist). Any thoughts on which brand? Does Ford even make them any more? What was the ratio on the GT cars with the TRX package?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[FoxChassis]

Rack ratio was the same for TRX suspension or Handling suspension....20:1 before mid '83 and 15:1 mid-'83 and later.

'82 originally had 190mm. 220 was new for '83. I imagine other parts of the package were different between the years, to accomodate the tire size and other different parts that changed.

[Bruce Mohacsy]

Sorry to press but... Do you have an opinion on aftermarket racks? AGR? flaming River? Generic aftermarket?

[xctasy]

So I have two questions.....

I need new TRXs. What would you do. Coker? Does Michelin even stock them anymore? What size? 190's,220's?, etc., etc....

I need a new rack (power assist). Any thoughts on which brand? Does Ford even make them any more? What was the ratio on the GT cars with the TRX package?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

It's idealism verses proper support for your your US tire makes.


I personally wouldn't ever bother with the 190 or 220 tires, they are just too small these days. At the very least, go for 230/55 vr 390's. Coker don't stock them, but longstone in the Unilted Kingdom do as an import, and so does Michelin in France

(The cost of my preferred 240/45ZR415GT and 280/45ZR415 not including rewelded 98 Explorer 5 studs, BMW M6 5 ON 120'S, or the ex Testa Rossa Euro 5 on 108 rims are US 2243.90 with free delivery)


Its your choice. Four Coker source 240/55vr 390 tires will sting you $2540. But its a really cool, great quality tire.

Ex Longstone, its 333 UK pounds and 528.40 US Dollar each before its slapped on a boat or air craft for 2113.60

But delivery should be free


Idealism like that stops you spending big in other areas, and this is why people shy away from the TRX and it millimetric mates.


http://www.cokertire.com/tire-styles...helin-trx.html

I get my tires straight of the back of the two year TUV inspections in Germany. The supplier I use is Adrian and Mike at Euro Tyres in Auckland New Zealand. http://www.eurotyre.co.nz/


They can supply used tires in the more exotic larger sizes in newer date codes

A Ferrari or BMW ditches its old tires for new data code items for autobahn legality.

I first used 200/60 390's, much nicer than my original 190/65 390.

For brand new, I'd check with Croker to see that they can match these imports



I'd pick up the Dunlop SP Sport 2000E TD 230/55 ZR390, 140 mph speed rating, better than a 130 rated tire if your going to use it hard.

see http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/...90-dunlop.html



or the 240/55VR390 for the Ferrari Mondial QV above.

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page...helin-trx.html




Early steering was TRW or Ford. The Mustang II steering was carried over the the Fox. Ford botched the front end, not really intentionally, but the steering rack was a fixed carry over item, and on the short wheel base Fox, it never got altered ackerman angles, and so the later fast rack 2.75 turn lock to lock SVO and GT steering and IFS geometry reset in , what, 87, is the right next step. My 81 has been realigned two times by local Mustang expert, and its still grunches its tires under turns. Only a total rethink with caster plates and proper later model bits will fix this.

The quality of the later uprights are better, and there is so much more around than when Ford screwed it together. I'd go fast rack, there is even a set of 2.25 ratio aftermarket racks. As long as you have the right high supply power steering pump, and check it with some plywoood for neutral bump steer, and ajust the rack position via steel spacers or decking the rack mounting bases, the later stuff is far away the best option.

[Bruce Mohacsy]

You guys have helped a lot! If you have the time, go to my gallery. You can see what I started with and hopefully, the progress I've made in taking my car to a "like new" daily driver. I'm not a gifted shade tree mechanic so a lot of the repairs are done by a friend of mine who was a Ford dealer mechanic in the day and now owns his own shop. When I get a new rack, springs, struts, motor mounts and transmission mount this Feb. all of your info will have been invaluable. Thanks!

[xctasy]

On basis of cost and tire type, TRXs have gotten very, very cheap


Hook onto the current price in Euros then convert to USD via

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amoun...rom=EUR&To=USD




Today, as of 2/2/13, just 155.30 Euros each gets you for 211.897 USD the best TRX tire replacement for the money, but the factory Michelin ones are already upgraded compound wise, so you really cant go wrong. Minus the international costs of transfer, thats just 847.60 USD for four tires in the 230/55390 size range, with a 149 mph speed rating.

Cokers prices are competitive, and are backed up by a full commitment to sales service, so you decide.

[Bruce Mohacsy]

What web site did you get this ad from?

[xctasy]

What web site did you get this ad from?

Use the currancy converter

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amoun...rom=EUR&To=USD

and tick translate to German if not already

http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/...90-dunlop.html

6 offers for Dunlop SP Sport 2000E TD 230/55 ZR390 as of 2/7/2013

1.http://www.reifendirekt.de/cgi-bin/r..._produktezanox

153 Euro

2.http://www.reifensuche.com/Kaufen/Su...=5420005505150

157 Euro

3.http://www.tirendo.de/dunlop-sp-spor....html?wmc=1028
161.99 Euro

4.http://www.hitmeister.de/reifen/dunl...t=150608100274
169 Euro

5.http://www.amazon.de/dp/B008M7CQ64/?...KaMlCKl4Tdvz7Q
173.02 Euro

6.http://www.reifentiefpreis.de/Sommer...n.html?adid=10
290.80 Euro


7. Longstone Tires sells internationally, and runs off Michelin France

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/michelin-trx-tyres

2_7_2013 selection vs 2_2_2013 selection...things change fast at Longstone



There is an email and phone number in France at Michelin's dedicated to this product line :

pneuretro@fr.michelin.com


00 33 (0)4 73 41 75 00

From abroad, don't dial the "0" before the 4 between ()

See there TRX current supply on their website

http://www.michelin-passion.com/pass...EN&dimension=1

2_7_2013



8. Coker is http://www.cokertire.com/metric-tire..._header-popout

190/55HR340 = 13.39"
165/70R365 = 14.37"
190/55HR365 = 14.37"
200/60HR365 = 14.37"
220/55VR365 = 14.37"
200/60VR390 = 15.35"
220/55VR390 = 15.35"
240/55VR390 = 15.35"
220/45VR415 = 16.34"
240/45ZR415 = 16.34"
240/55VR415 = 16.34"


9. Avon tires, with the CR39. The old CR28 and CR29 TRX Michelin sizes are no longer made, but an XJ 40 item is, whic runs off the common British and European market Jag alloy wheels, which actaully run the AC Cobra/ Chevy stud pattern bolts in this case in a 390 by 165TR wheel in 5 on 4.75"

http://www.vintagetyres.com/item/431...ad--metric--tl

http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj...res-xj40-8264/

220/65VR390 Metric Tyres for XJ40

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Hi,

This is just a quick note to those of you who have cars fitted with these Metric tyres and are stuck for tyres. You may know that Dunlop discontinued the last tyre made for these rims about 6 months ago, and since then there has been nothing that is safe to fit. Because of this, Vintage Tyres have managed to reintroduce the Avon tyre for these cars, in cooperation with Cooper-Avon UK. So we have now got in stock the correct tyre for your rims!
220/65VR390 Avon CR39 @ £199

For more information, email charlie@vintagetyres.com, or call +44(0)1590 612261. Or see www.vintagetyres.com

thanks
Charlie
Vintage Tyres

The remoulds are I think the Colway CTR, but I'm not certain its around new, as its been out of production and isn't listed anymore expect at Longstones.

9. The Virager brand KTD and KTDE and KTR tires are also around brand new
at http://www.kingpin-tyres.com/english.htm

It looks like it remoulds the stock TRX tire.






Lastly, the Colway tyre company technically Chapter 22'd in 2002, but they are sill around making remoulds (not retreads, but new tires made to pre 1990 EU regs in non Millimetric tires are still listed in Tyremonkey
http://www.tyremonkey.co.uk/tyres. They don't make them anymore but they are around.

[Jack Hidley]

Bruce,

If you want to keep a Fox rack in your car, get one for a 1992-93 V8. These have an SPR code of ET or FW. If you can't find this rack, get one from a 1987-91 V8. These have an SPR code of DB. They are the most common.

I would get the rack from Ford. The Ford part number is F3ZZ-3504-ACRM. Motorcraft number STG-9RM. We have tested many aftermarket rebuilt racks. Almost all of them have problems. Rebuilding an individual rack is fairly easy to not screw up, but rebuilding them in batches almost guarantees problems unless you have very good process control and know what you are doing. This has to do with very, very small differences between what look like the same rack parts. You might want to read the article below:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...t/viewall.html

If you want to improve the steering feel of your car, I would install an SN95 rack. This will make the steering much more linear at small steering torques. This makes it much easier to make fine corrections to the steering and feel what the tires are doing. To install this rack in your car, you only need to screw on normal Fox inner tie rods and change the steering shaft to an MMST-13.

All of the racks I mentioned above are 15:1 ratio, where your rack is a 20:1 ratio unit. When looking for racks, don't buy one based on the number of turns lock to lock. In different Mustang applications, Ford has installed different thickness steering rack limiters on them. So racks with the same ratio, but different limiters will have a different number of turns lock to lock. This can make it difficult to tell if you are getting a fast or slow ratio rack.

If you current rack housing is made from one piece of cast aluminum, then you have a Ford rack and any of the above racks will connect to your existing rack hoses. If your rack housing is multipiece, then it is a TRW rack and uses unique hoses. You could install the above racks with adapters or just replace the hoses with the 1983-89 type. I would replace the hoses.

Since you have a pre 1985 Mustang, you will need rack bushings for the early Mustang which use the larger M16 rack bolts.

[Scott Peters]

Thanks Jack,
That really cleared up how to switch to an SN95 rack.
I never realized you could use Fox tierods.
There was so much confusion over this over at the "Corral".

Scott

[Bruce Mohacsy]

Thanks! My mechanic is an ex Ford technician. He also told me the TRW rack gave them headaches. I'll take this info to him and we can discuss options.
Peace.

[82GTforME]

Hey Jack, can you answer a question?
I just removed the rack on my 82 GT and I was getting mixed info on which is the correct replacement. My car is not a TRW equipped vehicle and the rack I took out has SPR code AT. I was planning on just finding the direct replacement for this but it seems there are a lot of options available.
Maybe the SN95 is the best way to go but I dont want my project to balloon more. I'm doing a complete 5 lug upgrade and seeing as I've stripped down to replace control arm bushings and the rack I don't want to now have to change inner tie rods or steering shafts and a bunch more that wasn't in my original scope.
I guess the question is if I get the ET or FW or even the DB, I will have to change the pump as well won't I? My preference is not to. What are you thoughts?

[Jack Hidley]

Over a decade ago, Ford lumped all of the power racks used in Mustangs from 1980-93 and service them with one model. It is Motorcraft STG-9RM/Ford F3ZZ-3504-ACRM. I believe this is the standard 1993 GT/Cobra rack which is SPR code ET. I don't think there is any chance that you will find a rebuilder who will sell you a rack with the SPR code that you need. Since you don't want to update the rack, I would either get the above rack from Ford or take your rack to Jeff Roethlisberger
at Turn One Steering and have it rebuilt. He worked for Saginaw for a number of of years and knows what he is doing.

Unfortunately the Fox racks are so old now, that it is very difficult to find out what is different about the racks from the SPR codes anymore. Everyone who knew is long gone from Ford. It is almost impossible to find cars with the original racks in them anymore. This makes it very difficult for us to quantify the differences. Since the rack valving got better and better over the SN95 years, I assume that it also got better and better over the Fox years. Given that, I would not obsess about getting the same SPR code as you currently have. I would try to find the last Fox SPR code. The other reason to do this is that the Fox racks all use straight cut gears. As the gear teeth wear in the center of the rack, they develop some free play that can't be adjusted out. If you use a later SPR code, the rack and pinion gear are going to have less miles on them and probably be tighter.

Since your current rack is a 20:1 unit (correct?), this will require you to get the HV version of the PS pump to work with a 15:1 rack. If you don't, during fast steering transitions, the steering can loose assist. Can you tell me what the date code is on your rack just below the SPR code? I assume that your car does not have the TRX suspension option.

[82GTforME]

"Since your current rack is a 20:1 unit (correct?), this will require you to get the HV version of the PS pump to work with a 15:1 rack. If you don't, during fast steering transitions, the steering can loose assist. Can you tell me what the date code is on your rack just below the SPR code? I assume that your car does not have the TRX suspension option?"



I'm assuming no TRX either as well as the 20:1.

The date code stamps are 2E 19C.

I didn't want to do the PS pump, but if I have to I will if there is no other choice than a custom rebuild.

[Jack Hidley]

If the rack is 3 turns lock to lock, it is a 20:1 ratio. If it is between 2 and 2.5 turns lock to lock, it is a 15:1 ratio.

Do you know which it is?

[82GTforME]

I did not intend to take over this thread with non-TRX specific questions, so apologies to the OP.

My rack is definitely 3 turns so the 20-1.

So you recommended "The Ford part number is F3ZZ-3504-ACRM. Motorcraft number STG-9RM." (15:1 correct?). As well I should "get the HV version of the PS pump to work with a 15:1 rack" can you throw me a ford part # if you have one readily available? It would save me a little time and a few phone calls.

Appreciate the help.

[Jack Hidley]

Yes.

The PS pump model is Motorcraft STP-29RM (Ford E7SZ-3A674-CBRM).

[82GTforME]

Thanks a ton for the info.

One call to my local dealer states these parts are obsolete and no longer available through Ford.

Ah well, nothing like a challenge.

[xctasy]

I'm guessing the HV pump is not always used with the 15:1 steering ratio, is it?

Is the later E7 HV pump a direct bolt in to the earlier mounts?