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Thread: DaytIMSA time

  1. #1
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default DaytIMSA time

    I'm looking at making a copy of the 1979 Ford Mustang Daytona showcar smoked polycarbonate headlamp, grille and lamp aero body kit combined with the 1980 IMSA plexiglass kit.

    It's so I can drop the Cd from the 0.44 it is now to well below the SVO's 0.32 if I can.

    For example, in instances where an engines automatic transmission spec and gearing wasn't changed, the same 135 hp, such as in Europe, for example, the Audi 5000 got a near 40% reduction in drag, and it saved 11 % fuel on the highway cycle, 2.1 US mpg at 56 mph, and 2.6 mpg at 75 mph, and it got an extra 5 mph top speed.

    If you can look past the ultrawide 12 x 15" Compomotive / Ronal Turbo wheels AND P7's, these shots show the IMSA has 90 degree tangs that hook into the trims.







    They said of it on http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1979-1...d-mustang9.htm

    Powered by a much-modified turbo-four, this buff hatchback crouched low on ultra-wide Pirelli P7 tires hugged by outlandishly flared fenders. Also featured were a grille-less nose, deep front air dam, loop rear spoiler, and competition-inspired pop-riveted plastic covers on the side windows and taillight panel. In name and appearance, the IMSA strongly suggested that Ford was more than just thinking about a return to competition -- and about the International Motor Sports Association GT series in particular
    Anyone got more IMSA window photos. I'm hoping to add glasshouse kit without spoiling the existing car, so its gotta be a bolt on bolt off deal, not a flush bonded 87 on set up.

    Threads are http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...g-IMSA-concept

    And http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ord-collection

    I'm pretty sure that with these two mods, and perhaps a brianj style low body kit and an undercar belly pan, I'll get total body protection, and better mpg's, but I goota know how those IMSA window covers were fastened.

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    Earl Ingstad evlgt85's Avatar
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    I think all I have here are scans of the magazine articles from back in the day. I am not sure how detailed the pics are.

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    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    I don't have the March 1980 Car and Driver article yet,

    but I was able to get access to the press release kit

    The press release kit from http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Ford-Mu...item51a99a838d said it had an 0.418 drag factor, pretty good considering it has 335/35 15 section tires and those far out flares. Down 5% from stock.




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    Earl Ingstad evlgt85's Avatar
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    I've got the C&D article available here: http://foureyedpride.com/fep_bild/v/..._mag/album117/

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    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Ah, French Gotti 10 slot three piece 75 BA wheels on 345's.





    http://www.gbsalpine.com/wheel/gotti/eng.html

    http://www.gbsalpine.com/wheel/gotti/eng/75ba.html

    Thought they were Compomotive or Ronals.

    From pre production in 1978 to the first pre production versions of the SVO, these rims where used to prototype




    Thanks a lot that's brilliant,

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    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the input. I've studied the Ford show cars, and recon I can wipe 70% of air drag off a Fox Mustang just by using the Daytona, IMSA, and RSX techniques.


    This is not show and tell, but background evidence on what advances Ford were looking at putting into production four eyes at the flick over to the 80's. It shows you the body detailing that allowed the various show car aero kits to be made. Not a lot of this is around on the net in one place.

    The Daytona was perhaps the most significant, as it was basically copied by Leo Preneau with the Aussie 1982 Holden Commodore SLE and SS in most regards, especially the black ADP pack SL/E and red SL/X below.








    I've looked at the tilt windows of the IMSA,




    and the "booth" windows of the RSX, and I'm certain the Booth window the 81-82 De Lorean copied is where I'm headed






    That early Mustang show car stuff, the Red Daytona, pearl white IMSA and reddish orange RSX showcars have all the aero features they used through the 80's mapped out. I'm loving the info that is on the net.


    DaytIMSARSX?

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Just reading through belt line removal on http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...me-Trim-Pieces


    The whole glass window can remain on each side, with just a polycarbonate booth window cladding needed, Everything else will dove tail into the IMSA stle curtain wall plexiglass/lexan/polycarbonate. There is some metal that has to be removed from the door so that the booth widow can be flush, but the moulding would cover it up to return it to original.






    I'm working with a local building supplier and polytechnic to make up a kit.

    Booth windowing a Fox is simply one of the most easy factory style aero mod I can think of.

    The headlamp covers are dead easy too http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...adlight-covers

    with a basic GT0204C-79-82 obsolete clear cover around as a template



  8. #8
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Oh dear. I was looking through a great Kiwi magazine, and a family has imported an ex Amsterdam A310 Renault Alpine. First, I noted the wheels, then the head lamp covers, and then, the JDM Export rear vision mirrors and blackouts.


    I've found why the Gotti rims and GTS headlamp covers weren't factory items...




    they were straight copies from the A310 Renault Alpine.

    Why Jack?





    http://members.chello.nl/mj.constant...to_alpine.html

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Thanks again for the input. I've studied the Ford show cars, and recon I can wipe 70% of air drag off a Fox Mustang just by using the Daytona, IMSA, and RSX techniques.

    This is not show and tell, but background evidence on what advances Ford were looking at putting into production four eyes at the flick over to the 80's. It shows you the body detailing that allowed the various show car aero kits to be made. Not a lot of this is around on the net in one place.
    I don't think you're going to get even close to 70% (your cD isn't going to go from .44 to .13). Plus the front end is only part of the barn door'ness of the car, keep in mind in the 70's and 80's car makers didn't really "care" about aero efficiency and didn't put cars in wind tunnels like they do today.

    If you really want to get into it, find a good CAD model of a Mustang and find some a cheap/free CFD analysis program and go to town. Then you can manipulate the model and see how the changes affect airflow. There are also any number of books on automotive aerodynamics out there.

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewM View Post
    I don't think you're going to get even close to 70% (your cD isn't going to go from .44 to .13). Plus the front end is only part of the barn door'ness of the car, keep in mind in the 70's and 80's car makers didn't really "care" about aero efficiency and didn't put cars in wind tunnels like they do today.

    If you really want to get into it, find a good CAD model of a Mustang and find some a cheap/free CFD analysis program and go to town. Then you can manipulate the model and see how the changes affect airflow. There are also any number of books on automotive aerodynamics out there.

    First, DrewM, I wanna say I stu{{ed up, and was wrong.

    My opening statement below was correct. But after that, I did my occasionally typical percent mess up. I meant 30%, not 70%. I used the online calculator, and forgot to use the complement rule.




    Ford quoted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ford Press Kit
    The press release kit from http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Ford-Mu...item51a99a838d said it had an 0.418 drag factor, pretty good considering it has 335/35 15 section tires and those far out flares. Down 5% from stock.

    0.418 is 95% of 0.44, the hatch cd figure. Percentage drag was down 5% from stock. You use the complement rule to get a loss per hundred. Percent is %, numerator over denominator, and I messed up.



    I've actually got one better...info from the work they did in Lockhead Georgia in 1977 to 1979 on the special variations on the Fox Mustangs...that's what gave birth to the Mustang Daytona, M81, IMSA, 83 Mustang, and SVO. About the same time, Wayne Draper from Australia was experimenting with larger frontal area body kits like the IMSA one (based on the Cologne Capri racing platform front spoiler used as the Mustang IMSA race car). They found a 30% drag reduction with a modest 10% increase in frontal area. On the IMSA, it was a 5% reduction, with frontal area going up more than 5%, I think from the March 1980 Car and Driver article. That work showed that despite a very steep, vintage like windscreen, the cd figure could go down a lot. The Renault Vera of 1982 proved a stock sedan with 0.44 could go down to 0.26 while retaining the stock front screen angle, but with curtain wall or flush glass and other tricks. The French were headed where Ford ended up going. I know I can get 30% off that factory 0.44, and probably 40%. I was totally wrog to say 70%, and I'm sorry.

    Ford Detroit and Australia actually farm out the historical wooden bucks and calculation data to SAE technical institutes with the normal stern non disclosure retainer, and will cut funding to institutes that disclose data, and in 1988, Ford Broadmedows farmed out Wayne Drapers 3/8 scale Falcon XD with three dody kits to a certain technical institute to demonstrate the frontal area verses cd and co-efficient of lift calculations. In 1979, Ford Australia quoted the XD Falcon as the same as the Ford Granada, at 0.45 cd. and 10% less than the XC Falcon (an Australian Granada). In 1988, the figure of 0.45 for the XD and 0.43 for the XE Falcon, and 0.36 for the EA 26 1988 Falcon. Problem was, one faculty engineer said that was rubbish, the XE and XF was 0.48, and the XD 0.50, and the XC was 0.44.

    Tests on the 1987 XF gave a 112 mph top speed with 164 hp, but the same 164 hp, the 1988 EA 26 gave 126mph. By calculation, since frontal area was the same 23.7 sq feet on both Falcons, that meant the drag factors the faculty released were correct. Ford Australia threatened to pull funding and all development models, and the information was not formally endorsed. It was then that the level of aerodynamic work that was done by the Aussies was found, and that the racing IMSA and SVO Mustang variants too had many more hours devoted to it, with the IMSA front and the M81 fronts having been tested very early on. I know from that data that when frontal area was not increased, 0.30 is possible even with an Edwardian or vintage windscreen angle, and that is more than a 30% reduction. Ford did a lot of work on the Fox Sedan to Mustang to Thunderbird, about 400 hours each, with about 30 % from the Box top to the S shell 1983 T bird, but the screen angle was changed, and the show-car variants of the T bird and LSC were a little above 0.22, a 60+% reduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    I'm looking at making a copy of the 1979 Ford Mustang Daytona show-car smoked polycarbonate headlamp, grille and lamp aero body kit combined with the 1980 IMSA plexiglass kit.

    It's so I can drop the Cd from the 0.44 it is now to well below the SVO's 0.32 if I can.

    For example, in instances where an engines automatic transmission spec and gearing wasn't changed, the same 135 hp, such as in Europe, for example, the Audi 5000 got a near 40% reduction in drag, and it saved 11 % fuel on the highway cycle, 2.1 US mpg at 56 mph, and 2.6 mpg at 75 mph, and it got an extra 5 mph top speed.

  11. #11

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    No I figured/hoped you fudged a number in that 70%, it was just a bit..optimistic.

    The other point still stands, there are a few free/open-source CFD programs out there that will do the job in this case (and will give you far more and powerful tools than they had back in those days), taking cues from 70's and 80's technology/design is fine for starting out, but that was still a VERY early era for aero work on cars, especially anything production based, you can do a lot better job using modern day tools.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Over the last week, I've gotten some polycarbonate duffuser material from public lighting systems, which is made with perpendicular 1/4" squares, great for pattern making.


    This is a rip off of one of my two of my favourites fullwidth light and grille covers.

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    The Daytona meets Saleen front cover is the result, and the side curtain walls have been traced out. Down here, we have a diet of JDM imports, and the Nissan MPV's and Toytas, Subaru's have pined 90 degree fasterns for the mandatory "weather shields" aka moonsoon shields they all run on the driver and passenger doors..




    That allows everything to be fixed tightly without drilling any holes in the car.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    FEP Member allgosvo's Avatar
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    I will be watching this thread , seems like a very interesting project.
    Paul
    Ask me about my fuel injector cleaning service...

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