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  1. #26
    FEP Power Member black1980fiveoh's Avatar
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    Maybe re-body a mid-engine car with Fox skin. I'm not sure a mid engine swap could be done without completly hacking up the car. Might be fun to try it on an areo 4 banger.
    1980 Cobra http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2364382
    11.82@115 mph - 2015 - retired due to cancer
    1981 Cobra
    reborn with a lot of new go fast parts and time to make it look pretty
    11.80 @114 mph - 2016

  2. #27

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    I think with what Mr Joshua said about using the irs rear chassis and tubular " k member " if you will, to mount the engine and transaxle. I think if someone can cram the V10 awd drivetrain from a Lamborghini Gallardo into an 07 model stang, I could shove a coyote into the rear of a fox. Its an idea anyways. I just think the mid or rear engine design is much better for racing. I would love to experiment with it at least.
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  3. #28
    FEP Super Member SVT Rob's Avatar
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    Why not a complete Ford GT swap in the rear of the Mustang?

  4. #29

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    Different? Yes. Stupid? Yes. This is not a mid engine designed car. It was designed for the average guy. Don't confuse yourself.

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Liter View Post
    Different? Yes. Stupid? Yes. This is not a mid engine designed car. It was designed for the average guy. Don't confuse yourself.
    He isn't confusing himself, considering its his car to do with what he pleases. Especially when its something as cool sounding as a Mid engine coyote powered foxbody.

    Anybody watch futurama way back when?

    ThunderCougarFalconBird.
    85 Mustang GT
    Engine build in progress
    Build Thread: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=137091

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow5oh85 View Post
    He isn't confusing himself, considering its his car to do with what he pleases. Especially when its something as cool sounding as a Mid engine coyote powered foxbody.

    Anybody watch futurama way back when?

    ThunderCougarFalconBird.
    Thank you slow5oh85, my car was also not designed to have a coyote in it with a t56 6 speed.
    I if I could find a complete ford Gt drivetrain for cheaper than just a transaxle, I would get it. The engine, however, would be going in my 93 f150 lol. I want to keep the coyote in my stang.
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  7. #32

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    GT transaxle, it's "only" $17,000;

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-2005-20...item4ac178906f

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  8. #33

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    Wow, only 17k. That's about how much it cost to get my car the way it is now.
    That's just insane. I'm sure there's a cheaper one out there.
    Last edited by 86Coyote; 03-01-2013 at 03:14 PM.
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86Coyote View Post
    Wow, only 17k. That's about how much it cost to get my car the way it is now.
    That's just insane. I'm sure there's a cheaper one out there.
    I wouldn't bet on it. I would be really surprised if you could find anything for less than 10K, used even. Not many were made, and most were/are pampered show cars, not getting wrecked much.

    The biggest hurdle is the transaxle, probably why there aren't more rear engined mustangs out there, and also why I was thinking of the FWD 4.6 route.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  10. #35
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    You are going about the whole trans-axle thing all wrong. You need out of the box thinking and proper research..
    The Ford GT's drivetrain is out of a normal persons price range. You can instead pay $2-3k roughly for a used 6 speed Getrag trans-axle. Used in all mid-rear engine kit cars from the SLC to the Ultima GTR, well known and support a decent amount of hp/trq.
    I'd wager around $500-800 for a billet adapter from http://superlitecars.com/ to mate up to the engine of your choice, might be less if they have one in stock.
    The hard part Isn't the drivetrain, it's the fabrication of the custom parts you'll need to make the fitment into the car possible. Shift linkage, drivetrain mounts, cross bracing, cage, custom length half shafts, etc..
    If you keep tossing this idea around without any action, I'll end up grabbing a shell and doing the swap myself.
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  11. #36

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    Well I'm not saying I was going to take immediate action, its still an idea. I start class in July, and I am going to bring up the idea then. I would have plenty of manpower, brains to pick from, all I need is the $$$. If you would like to start a project, go right ahead. It would give me something to reference from when I do mine lol.
    I will definitely keep look at the trans and other link you mentioned. Looks like that would be very doable, especially since the trans I was going to upgrade to is about that much anyways.
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  12. #37
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    So you'll need this
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  13. #38
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    Then a nice engine difference diagram, to put dimensions on.
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  14. #39
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    more nifty dimensions for your swap
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  15. #40
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    More
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  16. #41
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    So 27.5" + 27" = 54.5"
    I'm thinking that's very doable..
    Hell, give me the money and I'll do it for you..
    You probably won't like my timeline though, or my hourly rate...
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Joshua View Post
    So 27.5" + 27" = 54.5"
    I'm thinking that's very doable..
    Hell, give me the money and I'll do it for you..
    You probably won't like my timeline though, or my hourly rate...
    Lol no offense, but I will never pay someone else to do work I can do myself. Thanks for the nifty dimension charts though, they will come in handy for sure. I don't think the fab work will be all that hard. Like I said, on going to a school that has multiple courses for different things. A fab shop is one of them. I'm taking full advantage of this school while I'm there lol.
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  18. #43
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    None taken, was purely in jest, nothing to do with your skill.
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Joshua View Post
    None taken, was purely in jest, nothing to do with your skill.
    Its all good. All though it would be nice to have someone else around that knew what they were doing. By the way what was that last image supposed to be, the pic just says something like " image was stolen "
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  20. #45
    FEP Super Member Mr Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86Coyote View Post
    Its all good. All though it would be nice to have someone else around that knew what they were doing. By the way what was that last image supposed to be, the pic just says something like " image was stolen "
    length and height of the 351w flywheel to waterpump nose 27"
    height with basic carbed intake 302 @ 20-1/4" & 351w @23-1/4"
    83 GT w/ T-Tops (JeffCleaned)
    2021 Turbo Blue Audi S5

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Joshua View Post
    length and height of the 351w flywheel to waterpump nose 27"
    height with basic carbed intake 302 @ 20-1/4" & 351w @23-1/4"
    Oh ok. Well the first pic is the one I will prolly use, since sieeng how it has the modular dimensions.
    A true Mustang enthusiast not only takes care of his own, but looks after the wellness of all other's.
    My ride:
    86' Mustang GT hatch w/t-tops
    previous rides:
    91' Mustang LX vert
    89' Mustang GT 25th Anniversary edition
    84' Mustang LX hatchback
    85' Mustang LX coupe
    88' Thunderbird turbo coupe

  22. #47
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Ford first ZF transaxle and the Windsor 289 HP block was all you needed to make all the hp you'll ever need back then, and now, a world performance block can eclispe the modular for similar dollars.

    Let me tell you, its nothing to make a 800 hp Mid engined Mustang. There was an Aussie, Todd Wilkes, who killed himself in a totally well executed mid engined machine, the Giocattolo (Toy) at Eastern Creek a few years back. That set the tone for full house little mid engined Vee Eights. The 289 and 302 De Tomaso Mungusta, the DeTomaso Panterra, the Matra Dejet, the Lotus Europa were all low powered cars compared to what a 355 Nascar based engine can make. That power in the frame rails of a Fox isn't hard to make for 10 grand. Its just the gearbox and chassis deportment that need work, and the cooling. The Cologne Capri and IMSA Mustang had a Citroen twin radiator design which would accomodate a mid engine with ease, but cooling it and arranging the package was fixed by the Alfa Romeo Sprint 6v Groupe B. Too many have forgottne that Alfa master minded the mid engined V8 package with the Type 33. It just lacked a 32 valve head and Lancia Statos size.

    Be aware that water cooled mid engined cars are very dangerous, and require a huge amount of Italian/ American ingenuity to make them work well. Some of that ingenuity has failed to casecade back down to Americans since the Vector W2 and 512BB LM ended up as commercial faiures for there well monied developers. These cars were well excuted, but the turbo era removed them as options....for bang for the buck, a little turbo Cosworth IMSA or GTP racers were better options, and the 924/911/930/962 based versions of the Porsche are actually economy cars when you consider how much hard core 917 gear they use. A rear engined turbo , even like the Renault Alpine a310, is a better option than the R5 Turbo, even with the tiny hemi 1397 cc turbo engine.

    For me, its too easy. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giocattolo

    Paul Halsteed is the guy who got Ford to make extra 351c engines for the De Tomaso Pantera and Longchamps for world markets, and he was able to make whole Italian De Tomaso's in Australia at the Toy Shop. He and an F1 Engineer regigged the Group B Sprint 6V to tske the Holden V8

    Just copy the process used fo the ill fated Australian Giocattolo, which were 15 only Holden 304 295 HP V8 versions of an Alfa Romeo Sprint 6V Group B experimental car which died when Alfa Romeo did it hard in the mid eightees.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti5xfXyAhLs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li4u_f8JHuw


    See http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11191706














    The Italian/Australian execution of the project, with a little De Tomaso style Detroit iron ohv V8 always works. They used the ZF DT 5 speed gearbox minted in the mid sixtiess by the Germans for the Ford 1968 289 GT40 was also used in every De Tomaso Pantera and Maserati Bora. I'll tell you a secret GM and now Ford know...the specific out put of an OHV NASCAR style V8 is as good as any quad cammer, and the amount of space you save in not having over head cams allows you to gain capacity without weight. LS 4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0/7 liter engines verses modular 4.6/5.0/5.4/5.8 is a case in point. Sorry cammer lovers, but the physics of mid engined cars mean the quad cam mid engined car will always be over run by a stroker 335 or 385 engine. And the GT40 ZF box, though expensive, is just as good as the Porsce box. But either will do

    See http://alfasud.alfisti.net/gioe.html

    Note that Jaguar and Lamborghini and Ferrari tried to commercialise rear engined midship performance cars, the Boxer Berlinetta based 365 BB 512BB LM were state of the art with the lowest centre of gravity and the shortest gear box, but they failed to provide Porsche 935/962 style turbo performance. The Porsche 930 Turbo low polar moment chassis is the optimum for performance, and you have to study the XJ 220 and V12 mid engined exoitics and there kit car replicas to see how darn good a V8 Mustang can be.

  23. #48
    FEP Senior Member Boyd's Avatar
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    Mr Joshua and the person who mentioned the Lincoln V8 front wheel drive car I think have the most reasonable ideas. If you went with the FWD Lincoln V8 setup you would be dealing with EFI and would need the supporting EFI fuel system and wiring harness. If you were to go that way you might be able to adapt the entire Lincoln cars wiring system to the Mustang but not use every feature it had in the Lincoln. With Mr Joshuas ideas with the kit car transaxle you could take the route of a much simpler carburator and a non EFI fuel tank or fuel cell.
    If you just installed a Cobra or T-bird IRS in the rear then had just a u-joint connecting it to a standard rear wheel drive 5 or 6 speed manual,,, the engine would sit next to your right leg. Go and take some measurements of 5 and 6 speeds. The place where a driveshaft bolts to the front of a differential can be 10, 12 or more inches foreward from the axle shafts.
    Also take into consideration the needed air flow around this engine,, sound intruding into the rest of the car,, state inspections and requirements if this car is to be driven on public roads. In Minnesota your car would have so many modifications that it would be in the category of "change of construction" and it would need a complete inspection and approval before it can be liscenced to drive on public roads. Minnesota is really strict. Other states might not even care about your modifications.
    2011 Ranger 2.3 5 speed Supercab XLT
    2009 Ranger 2.3 5 speed Longbed XL
    2004 Ranger 2.3 5 speed Longbed XL
    Former vehicles:
    79 Pace Car 5.0 4sp ex showroom stock racer.
    79 Pace Car 5.0 auto.

  24. #49
    FEP Member allgosvo's Avatar
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    This is probably the best looking mid engine stang on the planet.
    http://www.eckertsrodandcustom.com/projects_mustang.php
    Paul
    Ask me about my fuel injector cleaning service...

  25. #50
    FEP Super Member PaceFever79's Avatar
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    I'm enjoying the fantasy garage thread, but......

    A mid engine in a fox uni-body would be incredibly expensive to build right, and you
    would most likely still end up with a destroyed chassis and a pile of expensive parts
    instead of a finished car that functions to a high standard.

    If you were serious about building it and had the money to burn, a body shell attached
    to a tube frame chassis would be the professional route. But then you have to ask why
    use a Fox body for such a custom designed super car?

    The most logical and cost effective route would be to move the engine and firewall back
    to a front mid engine so the weight is behind the front axle (ala the Corvette). This will
    handle as good or better than a rear mid engine. You also have to move the seats back
    and enlarge the trans tunnel but that is more doable!

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