1982 Mustang GT time!

[grtskydog]

OK, not that I trust a place called SHARK Motorsports, but keep an eye out for one of these....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Edelb...#ht_1103wt_962

You can probably find one cheaper than that.

[Fast86GT]

Look ,fist off,i dont see how or why you would want to daily drive a 82GT,the winters in this liberal cream puff state are horrendous for trying to keep a nice car but thats your perogitive?,anyway like i said i have had carb and injected cars and felt both were JUST as drivable and reliable.Do you want injection simply so you can say you have it?And youre on a budget?How about the holley pro jection system?its around 1500 bucks give or take a few hundred.GET historic plates for your car and just get a civic or something for the daily thing.Injection will only get you a few mpg thats it.GOOD LUCK.

[85 t top capri]

I'm not worried about drilling a hole I just feel like Im ruining the car kinda. weird felling.. anyway. Its my daily driver and I'm sick of carb. I want to turn key, and go.

its to bad you dont like carps... I would stick with the carp but thats just me.

[JACook]

We're talking about fish now?

[19COBRA93]

Injection will only get you a few mpg thats it.GOOD LUCK.

I'd have to somewhat disagree... For mostly highway driving, I think you'd be somewhat correct. A few mpg better injected roughly. However, for around town/city driving, you'll see a much greater difference in fuel mileage between the two. Injected will get considerably better in city driving than a carb'd setup will. Blame the accelerator pump.

My daily commute to and from work and transporting my little girl around is all city driving with short stints on the interstate. My carb'd cars average about 10 mpg. I can get 20 plus on the interstate cruising at 70, but only 10 around town. Every injected 5.0L I've ever owned has managed 15-20 in city driving, and 22-27 pure interstate. Even my turbo 5.0's with big injectors and bigger cams averaged 20-22 on the interstate.

Injected is simply better in almost every aspect. That's why it hasn't been used in almost 20 years on a production vehicle. That's not to say you can have a near perfect running carb setup, but in the end, injection is superior. When I say that, I'm referring to the typical street car.

The '83 GT I just picked up may get a conversion to fuel injection. I will agree though, that converting to fuel injection the right way is not financially the better option. For the same money, you could have a really nice carb/intake setup.

[Marz]

I'd have to somewhat disagree... For mostly highway driving, I think you'd be somewhat correct. A few mpg better injected roughly. However, for around town/city driving, you'll see a much greater difference in fuel mileage between the two. Injected will get considerably better in city driving than a carb'd setup will. Blame the accelerator pump.

My daily commute to and from work and transporting my little girl around is all city driving with short stints on the interstate. My carb'd cars average about 10 mpg. I can get 20 plus on the interstate cruising at 70, but only 10 around town. Every injected 5.0L I've ever owned has managed 15-20 in city driving, and 22-27 pure interstate. Even my turbo 5.0's with big injectors and bigger cams averaged 20-22 on the interstate.

Injected is simply better in almost every aspect. That's why it hasn't been used in almost 20 years on a production vehicle. That's not to say you can have a near perfect running carb setup, but in the end, injection is superior. When I say that, I'm referring to the typical street car.

The '83 GT I just picked up may get a conversion to fuel injection. I will agree though, that converting to fuel injection the right way is not financially the better option. For the same money, you could have a really nice carb/intake setup.

My 85 4bbl 4180C GT 5 speed was getting 14 or so on the street and about 25 on the highway. That was with a good carb tune and before I rebuilt it (the carb) and built it up.

[Fast86GT]

I'd have to somewhat disagree... For mostly highway driving, I think you'd be somewhat correct. A few mpg better injected roughly. However, for around town/city driving, you'll see a much greater difference in fuel mileage between the two. Injected will get considerably better in city driving than a carb'd setup will. Blame the accelerator pump.

My daily commute to and from work and transporting my little girl around is all city driving with short stints on the interstate. My carb'd cars average about 10 mpg. I can get 20 plus on the interstate cruising at 70, but only 10 around town. Every injected 5.0L I've ever owned has managed 15-20 in city driving, and 22-27 pure interstate. Even my turbo 5.0's with big injectors and bigger cams averaged 20-22 on the interstate.

Injected is simply better in almost every aspect. That's why it hasn't been used in almost 20 years on a production vehicle. That's not to say you can have a near perfect running carb setup, but in the end, injection is superior. When I say that, I'm referring to the typical street car.

The '83 GT I just picked up may get a conversion to fuel injection. I will agree though, that converting to fuel injection the right way is not financially the better option. For the same money, you could have a really nice carb/intake setup.

Youre not allowed to disagree................just kidding,i never really compared city driving,i am sure you are right as far as injection getting better economy around town especially running a double pumper,lol..I am talking more about reliability,my carbd car was very reliable and didnt hesitate to go anywhere.Which ever way he goes,i hope his car runs great.

[JACook]

Well, anyone running a double-pumper on the street deserves to get poor mileage. But
it's not because of the accelerator pumps. Double pumpers typically have less spread
between part and full throttle mixtures. When they're jetted for good power, they
will tend to run richer than what you might want at part throttle.

There seems to be a general misunderstanding of what accelerator pumps do. They're
there to compensate for the lean condition that happens when the throttle opens, and
the main circuit is not yet pulled in. The stock 4180C pump cam has a pretty slow ramp
at part throttle. There's also an anti-pullover orifice that bleeds off the pump squirt
when throttle movements are slow. And 30cc per 10 full strokes of the pump is not a
lot of fuel, in the grand scheme of things.

EFI also enriches the fuel mixture when you open the throttle, but for different reasons.
With either system, excessive throttle movement will cost a bit of mileage, but mostly
because you're constantly accelerating and decelerating.

It's pretty common for guys to run too much accelerator pump, and not enough vacuum
advance. Seems the pump is the first thing they think about when there's a bog. That
may appear to fix the problem, but it's a sledgehammer approach. In general, you don't
want to be relying on accelerator pump squirt to correct a part-throttle stumble.

[Fast86GT]

Or you can say that anybody running a double pumper on the street isnt concerned with mileage.I ran a double pumper for max performance,if i was really concerned with mileage........i wouldnt drive a mustang.lol

[grtskydog]

I've always looked at it this way:
The cost of going fuel injection on a carbed car will take forever and a day to recoup with the 2-3 mpg savings you'll see. As for daily driving, you gotta let it warm up a little first...so what. My only gripe with driving a carbed car around town is percolation on hot restarts. More of a nuisance than anything else, and if I invested a little time and effort it could be remedied.

[Fast86GT]

I've always looked at it this way:
The cost of going fuel injection on a carbed car will take forever and a day to recoup with the 2-3 mpg savings you'll see. As for daily driving, you gotta let it warm up a little first...so what. My only gripe with driving a carbed car around town is percolation on hot restarts. More of a nuisance than anything else, and if I invested a little time and effort it could be remedied.

Throw a plastic 1/2'' carb spacer on it,it cured my hot start problem,even tho it was just once in a while.Never had a problem after i put one on even on 100 degree days.

[MSM0075]

I'm getting rid of that chopped up RPM intake manifold. Which Intake manifold do you guys reccomend if I want to be able to pass inspection? You guys mentioned a Performer 302 or something? I want to be able to use as much stock parts as I can, esp to pass inspection.

This will hold me over untill we can get more out of debt and I'll be able to do what I want to it engine wise. But thats a whole nother story...

[JACook]

The Edelbrock 3721 is the only 4-barrel intake currently offered that will retain the EGR
and also the two thermal vacuum switches at the back.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3721/?image=large

If you don't have a factory 4-barrel EGR spacer, you can get a used factory one from
someone here on the board. Edelbrock also sells an EGR plate that would work-
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8053/?image=large
The Edelbrock plate does not have all the same vacuum nipples as the factory plate,
but the only one you need is the one for the canister purge, and it has that one.

[MSM0075]

The Edelbrock 3721 is the only 4-barrel intake currently offered that will retain the EGR
and also the two thermal vacuum switches at the back.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3721/?image=large

If you don't have a factory 4-barrel EGR spacer, you can get a used factory one from
someone here on the board. Edelbrock also sells an EGR plate that would work-
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8053/?image=large
The Edelbrock plate does not have all the same vacuum nipples as the factory plate,
but the only one you need is the one for the canister purge, and it has that one.

Thanks

[Quikk86]

Curious, those that have converted to EFI using factory harness, etc... Do the factory non-EFI cars (say '82 GT) have the hole in the firewall on the passenger side for the 60-pin harness or does that need to be cut? Are the other wiring harness holes that are needed for the conversion already there or do those need to be cut/drilled as well?

A buddy has a BUILT, Procharged and carb's '85 GT (C&S blow thru carb with no choke) and it starts right up first try in the dead cold. We took it out one night when it was 24 degrees (roads were completely clear - he doesn't drive it if there is anything other than clean, dry asphalt). It needed a few minutes to warm up before it would hold a nice idle, but man, it ran like a rapped ape in that cold weather! I love the way a built, carb'd Mustang sounds at idle, viscious! The '85 has a small Lunati 51014 cam in it, but it just sounds nasty at idle and it's set dead on at 950 rpm. I've heard similar combo'd EFI cars with that cam and you can hear the choppy idle, but it's smoother and more tame in the EFI motors. Not sure if that's my imagination or one difference between carb'd vs. EFI?

[SilentInsomnia]

Curious, those that have converted to EFI using factory harness, etc... Do the factory non-EFI cars (say '82 GT) have the hole in the firewall on the passenger side for the 60-pin harness or does that need to be cut? Are the other wiring harness holes that are needed for the conversion already there or do those need to be cut/drilled as well?

A buddy has a BUILT, Procharged and carb's '85 GT (C&S blow thru carb with no choke) and it starts right up first try in the dead cold. We took it out one night when it was 24 degrees (roads were completely clear - he doesn't drive it if there is anything other than clean, dry asphalt). It needed a few minutes to warm up before it would hold a nice idle, but man, it ran like a rapped ape in that cold weather! I love the way a built, carb'd Mustang sounds at idle, viscious! The '85 has a small Lunati 51014 cam in it, but it just sounds nasty at idle and it's set dead on at 950 rpm. I've heard similar combo'd EFI cars with that cam and you can hear the choppy idle, but it's smoother and more tame in the EFI motors. Not sure if that's my imagination or one difference between carb'd vs. EFI?

I would think that a carb'd car would "surge" more in the idle if it was running a man pump. I run an electric pump so I don't seem to see that problem as much (save my stupid alternator issue...I need a new one...lol).

That's all I have to say about that.

SI

[JACook]

As long as your fuel pressure isn't excessive, a carburetor couldn't care less about which
kind of pump you have feeding it.

[SilentInsomnia]

As long as your fuel pressure isn't excessive, a carburetor couldn't care less about which
kind of pump you have feeding it.

I was just theorizing though that maybe if you had a low rumbling idle on carb'd it could be cuz the idle's so low it has.. lapses.. in the fuel pressure... causing it to have that "rougher" sound. Maybe not.

SI

[Quikk86]

I would think that a carb'd car would "surge" more in the idle if it was running a man pump. I run an electric pump so I don't seem to see that problem as much (save my stupid alternator issue...I need a new one...lol).

That's all I have to say about that.

SI

The '85 mentioned above is running a full Aeromotive sumped tank with A1000 electric fuel pump and -10 / -8 lines with boost sensitive regulator, and the billet Aeromotive fuel pump controller. He's got like $3K into the fuel system. The carb was specifically built for his supercharged combo (carb cost $1.5K, it's a serious piece) and was dyno tuned, jetted, etc. specifically for the combo. The throttle response on the car is amazing, feels as good if not better than my PMS tuned '86. I've never felt throttle response in a carb car like his '85, but when you spend good $$$ for the right parts, that's to be expected.

Anyway, those that have converted to EFI using factory harness, etc... Do the factory non-EFI cars (say '82 GT) have the hole in the firewall on the passenger side for the 60-pin harness or does that need to be cut? Are the other wiring harness holes that are needed for the conversion already there or do those need to be cut/drilled as well?

[85 Speedfreak]

My 82' GT didn't appear to have any preformed holes that large.I would guess the later cars with CFI possibly did

[Quikk86]

^ Was it difficult to make the cuts for the wiring, etc.? I would imagine that the 60-pin connector cut could be challenging due to lack of space?

[zac_f83]

What did you swap your carb to? Was it a rebuilt unit or another used one? The stock 4180c carb, if rebuilt and adjusted correctly should start right up and run very very well. Also, when was the last time the fuel pump was replaced? I replaced mine and it made a world of difference in hard start situations.

My carb needs rebuilding. I have a correctly date coded setup which I will rebuild and put on the car. The car will start but it has been running rougher and rougher.

What I love about carbs is they usually degrade slowly and won't leave you stranded like efi will. People will blame carbs for all sorts of problems when the poor thing has given steadfast service over 25 years and is simply in need of a rebuild.

I do not know if the B303 cam might be causing you any startup issues. I know cams will make the car idle a bit poorly if the carb is not adjusted right.

-Mike

this rebuild your carb setup and properly tune it and it will start right up and run great...

my 83 has a 87 roller block stock cam stock 4180c and cold all i'd have to do is tap the gas to engage the choke and click the key and fired everytime...

NOW it's rebuilt the timing is WAY out of wack and so are the carb floats(so much gas pours out the vent tubes lol) and it still fires right up lol and runs 100X better than it did.... also added gasket matched edelbrock performer 289 intake....