Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
$1500 for 20 circuit setup? Talk about hiding car part purchases from the wife!!! That's cool as hell though. And Trey I wish you'd hurry up and do the 24/7 so I can see if I want one too!!!!!!
I like the look with all the wiring out. I guess I am going wire tuck on my 85....where's my notebook?
1985 GT, Sunroof, 5 Lug, Rear Discs, 01 Graphite Bullets, 88 forged piston shortblock, 2.02/1.60 Alum heads, Weiand Stealth, Holley C950 TBI, BBK Long tubes
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Its a bit misleading about the 20 circuit as what the system can do and how it does it is what makes it so cool and expensive. It allows you to control so many different things such as switches, motors, lights, etc. and make them do things that you either can't do with the average wiring or is extremely complicated to do and requires a lot more relays, etc.
As I stated its an expensive option, but if you want some of the cool features that are available on the new cars today, this kit can do many of those things for you. Definitely something to consider in a Restomod, or an over the top build. If you just want/need the basic wiring and you have little to no options or extras on the car, then this system is really not the best option cost wise. You could buy one of the smaller circuit systems and cut about $500 off the price, but again for about $550 you can buy the Ron Francis setup that will do everything you need and come with most of your pigtails too. That is why the 82 GT is getting the RF kit.
Although I will admit that I am seriously considering going BIG with my 69 Mach 1 Restomod, so I might have to figure out how to swing the cost of the Infinity Box setup!
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
Started the harness mapping last night. I chose to start with the small ignition portion of the harness to get a feel on how this is going to go.
I laid out the harness in close to its orientation on the motor and got to work documenting colors, connectors and items the connectors are supposed to feed.
Now comes the interesting part that I'm not quite sure what to think yet and hopefully I get it figured out.
Seems there are some discrepancies in Ford's own manuals. I have the prints for 1984 that I got from the sticky here in Electrical, the Ford EVTM for 1984 and also the diagrams out of the Haynes manual, which are about useless honestly, and they do not coincide very well with each other or what I'm looking at in front of me in the harness.
Case point example:
The Grey 8 pin plug that connects this harness to the main engine harness.
The 1984 EVTM has this connector labeled as C135 (8 pin grey)
This connector feeds the following connected parts on a 5.0 H.O. according to the EVTM
1) WOT A/C cutout switch
2) TAD Solenoid
3) TAD relay/WOT cutout relay
4) Clutch cycling pressure switch/A/C throttle boost solenoid
5) Tach/ - coil
6) + coil
7) no item specified
8 ) no item specified
The 1984 schematics from this site has the connector listed as connector C200 (8 pin grey)
This connector feeds the following connected parts on a 5.0 H.O. according to the schematic
1) no item specified
2) no item specified
3) no item specified
4) no item specified
5) Water temp sensor
6) Oil pressure sender
7) no item specified
8 ) no item specified
Now as seen above there is already conflicting info, so let's dig a little deeper.......
Here is what I have in front of me:
1) WOT A/c cutout switch
2) Coil +
3) Coil - / Tach
4) Empty
5) Water temp sensor
6) Oil pressure sender
7) WOT A/C cutout switch/Carb throttle emission control solenoid
8 ) Empty
Soooooooo let's throw a few more wrenches in the pit.
According to the EVTM, the oil pressure and water temperature are in a different connector (C147 3 pin)
According to the schematics, everything but the temp/pressure senders are in a different connector (C207 6 pin grey)
NOW.....connector pin layout and wiring colors match exactly what is labeled in the schematics as C200. The only difference is what is connected to this.
I'm not 100% sure but I'm wondering if this might be part of a running change. I even looked at the 1983 and 1985 schematics on this site and they don't match what I have either, so I'm not sure what to think. I know I'm not the brightest on electrical schematics but I can read and follow them mostly.....when they are close to what I'm looking at. I could be reading these things wrong but I'm sure I'm not.
This could be a long endeavor at this rate. I almost feel like I'm trying to drive across the country, on the path less beaten, using a TomTom GPS that hasn't been updated since 2010.
Last edited by 84StangSVT; 02-02-2017 at 12:01 PM.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Everything you explained above is the exact reason that I am unable to deal with the factory harness when trying to make repairs. I have run across very similar issues and honestly it drives me crazy.
I get so irritated and frustrated that I end up yanking everything out and just replacing it with RF. The wires are labeled every 6 or so inch with what they are and what they go to. Almost idiot proof for me!
I know others have done this type of work and are pretty good at it, but I have learned that I ultimately don't have the patience for the constant confusion and misinformation. I can deal with it when I have a good diagram that is accurate, but if not . . . I am DONE! Good Luck!
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
I feel somehow this will make me a better man in the end. Ah hell....who am I kidding? All it's going to do is drive me nuts.
I really wish I could get a kit and start over, but it's not an option anytime soon. I will make this work and if I do, hopefully with the mapping I'm doing and the mistakes I WILL make will help someone else down the road.
Let's just hope I never sell it because the next owner is gonna be screwed when they go to trouble shoot this thing and there are only a few different wire colors in the whole car. Poor fella!
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Pretty interesting read Brock. I've been studying my electric/vacuum book like it was the Bible. You're making me think I could be wrong!
I will follow you for a while, it'll be about a month before I start screwing with mine.
I just wanted to mention what I have found so far. I'm not thrilled but it doesn't surprise me either. I would take the time to compare the shop drawings to the EVTM ahead of time and look for the discrepancies beforehand so it's not quite as big of a shock when you dive in.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Soldering on......
Since I'm waiting on the new connectors for the Duraspark and distributor to show up, to build the new harness for it, I'm moving onto the main harness.
Lets map this monstrosity!
Again, I label the things I know what they go to just as a reference. It helps me run though the harness and schematics when I'm not wondering what that plug goes to.
Once I got all of the tape and loom off of the main engine, I was actually pleasantly surprised by how good the protected wire looks. It is amazingly clean and no insulation issues with it. MY JOB JUST GOT EASIER! Instead of having to rewire every single thing from scratch, it looks like I can just replace what is bad and roll on.
As I pick through the harness, the more I'm glad I was forced to go down this road. I'm learning a lot and there are things in definite need of attention, the factory splices being one of them. I was interested in seeing how Ford did them and IMHO, they could have been better. Now granted that my car is 30+ years old and has at least 250,000 miles on it, my splices were beginning to look sketchy. I had a lot of green corrosion on them and a couple of the small wires tied into them fell off as soon as I peeled the cloth tape off. It appears Ford made their splices by squishing these wires together in a square mold and attached them together. What they used for the connection is beyond me as mine look more like an epoxy instead of solder. These joints were covered in nothing but cloth tape so I'm not sure how Ford expected them to stay dry and corrosion free. When I go back I will make sure these joints are sealed extremely well via marine duty heat shrink tubing.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Always remember . . . Ford (and all vehicle manufacturers) are in the business of selling NEW Vehicles, not making them last for 20, 30, 40+ years. There is little incentive for them to spend the extra time and money to guarantee things don't break, wear out, go bad after so many years.
Glad to see that some of the harness is helping you out rather than fighting you the entire way!
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
I am removing the things I know I don't need as I work this harness.
Temp and Oil Pressure senders??? Nope! Thermactor and emission systems???? Nope! What the heck does this go to??? It doesn't look to have been hooked up for years!!! It's gotta go!
I know it seems odd to remove the temp and pressure sending units, but I have a logical reason for it. The water temp is now monitored from the EFI system and it has its own wire. The oil pressure is mechanical. Eventually I would like to run aftermarket gauges in the stock cluster but I can run the necessary wiring if/when that happens.
One thing I do want to point out is another discrepancy between the EVTM and shop schematics.
The Ammeter wiring.
According to what I saw in front of me matches what the EVTM has. It shows that the ammeter runs with a shunt system in it. The shop schematics DO NOT show this. they show it as a straight circuit through the gauge. I know that's wrong from all of the discussion on it. It should always have the shunt on it using the factory gauge. Thought it was interesting that the prints didn't have it and could see where that could be a catastrophic oopsy for someone that didn't know any better who was trying to wire one of these up from scratch. It doesn't matter to me much as the ammeter wiring is getting removed as I don't want/need it since I use a volt gauge.
So there you have it, the work up to this point.
Last edited by 84StangSVT; 09-14-2017 at 07:51 AM.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
I forgot to mention it in case anyone is wondering. What is being removed is being done the PROPER way. I am unpinning the wire from the connectors, not cutting them for the most part. There are some circuits that are spliced into a connector that I am having to cut and leave one circuit in at this time. Here's the catch with that though. Most of the connectors that are currently on this harness will be changed out soon. Example being 1 connector started out with 7 wires in it. By the time everything is said and done, it has one left. This 8 pin connector will be changed to a 1 pin weatherpack so at that time the cut wire will be removed and the remaining single wire in that splice will be repinned into a new connector by itself. No hack work for this guy LOL!
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Last edited by 84StangSVT; 02-03-2017 at 10:47 AM.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
I might be wrong, but I think ford did use a flexible bonding type glue to seal and connect wires. I believe the theory is that a soldered connection, especially under the hood is too solid of a connection with the vibrations of the engine. This would lead to wires breaking right at a soldered connection. At least that's how I think it went.....
Makes sense to me and coincides with what I saw. I was positive it wasn't solder. Either way, I know my splices and connections will be done in a similar fashion, just a bit better protected.
EDIT: Thanks to a little curiosity and research. I have discovered how they do it. Ultrasonic wire welding as seen in the video below.
https://youtu.be/yLGiY6Ehofo
Neat but I will have to do something different. Can't afford one of these guys LOL!
Last edited by 84StangSVT; 02-03-2017 at 11:20 AM.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
I have read several different times and places that the 1984 wiring is notorious for the insulation dry rotting and cracking. I don't know the low down, but its 33 years old anyway and even on my 85 all the original underhood wires are pretty crunchy.
1985 GT, Sunroof, 5 Lug, Rear Discs, 01 Graphite Bullets, 88 forged piston shortblock, 2.02/1.60 Alum heads, Weiand Stealth, Holley C950 TBI, BBK Long tubes
I had an 84 vert with ~ 170-190k on the clock (don't remember exactly, it's been sold a long time ago). The wiring {more appropriately the insulation} was garbage. Ford must have corrected this on later years....
Brock, the updated wiring looks good.
What a cool process for connecting wires. I'm betting you're right. That little solder machine might just be out of my budget parameters as well.
I think perhaps the wiring degrades with heat and environmental exposure. My 79s original wiring was still in good condition, but it had been sitting in a box since the car was gutted in 89 having only seen ten years of driving. Just the same, I did rebuild all the harnesses to eliminate unused wiring and add in all the new mods. I kept all the original wires though that were still needed and did not find any that were in need of replacement or repair.
DarranOriginally Posted by BLUECRAPI
1982-1C (Black) GT T-Top:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...um-Blue-Bomber!
Due to some unforeseen life changing events over the past couple of days, the work has come skidding to an almost stop on this car. The luxury of financial freedom is gone so it may take a lot longer than expected to get this car back up to where it should be. The saying is true, you can write the future but you can never escape the past. It is what it is but for now things will just have to progress as it can. Maybe it will be done this year. Glad I have already gotten most of the big items out of the way.
Anyways.......
Moving on with the spaghetti incident. Got the engine harness consolidated, but still need to add some connectors and make a couple small repairs. Should be fairly quick. Might have to roll with as many of the old connectors as I can right now, even if I don't want to. No pic updates on this yet.
On to the monster mess now...
This one has not been near as easy to map and consolidate as there are factory splices, jumpers, junctions in connectors everywhere and how it flows through the switches. Slowly but surely, wire by wire, this harness is shrinking. The fact that this is a low option car, one would think that this could be an easy process....but it's not. The additional wiring for all of the extra crap that this car does not have and the way the factory wires these things with splices and connections in the connectors, makes it a slow and deliberate process. One wrong pull, trace and snip of a wire can be a major game changer and headache. Don't ask me how I found that out.
I figure I'm about 1/2 way through it and the trash pile is gaining a substantial presence in the floor. I'm not trashing anything until I'm positive everything is going to work as intended once I put it all back together.
Brock
1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed
I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?
Wiring is looking good. Sorry to hear about life causing some money and time issues. Hope all is ok. Wish you the best with that as I know how often life throws a wrench into our best laid out plans.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
--86 GT vert.306,Powerdyne blown 7 psi, E303, ported E7s,MAF conv, BBK shorties n OR H, 3" Mac Pro Dumps, WC T5, 5 lug'd, 17" Bullitts, 3" cowlhood, SN95 Gt front brakes, 4.11s.
--Bill
Life is what happens to you while you are waiting for your plans to work out.
Liberty once lost is lost forever.
John Adams
July 7, 1775
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