how much to dust a 2011gt?

[Marz]

Jeremy. Your still looking at cars, specially Mustangs, as a cash return. It's very rare that anybody gets a good cash return out of their car unless it's a desirable car. And even then it has to be something special! You just cannot look at this hobby as something to make money off of. Even your 1960's Mustangs will not give you that much of a return based on what you put into them. And I mean your coupes. If they were fastbacks, then yes, you could make more.

But again, you really need to start rethinking this and stop thinking in terms of "how much money can I make off the car if I were to resell it."

[Ford'sCapri]

.

For less than $25k you can get 500+ rwhp to the ground that's streetable and fairly "reliable" in the sense. You will never see this in a new 2011, or a fox body for that matter. Expect to spend twice that to get a 2011 to perform the same. And getting 500 rwhp in any fox body is a real task, requiring a block swap or serious rebuild.

The great thing about the Fox cars is almost everything is able to be retrofitted. That '03 Cobra engine, trans and IRS can all be put in a earlier Fox, and for less than 25K.

[v8only]

Jeremy. Your still looking at cars, specially Mustangs, as a cash return. It's very rare that anybody gets a good cash return out of their car unless it's a desirable car. And even then it has to be something special! You just cannot look at this hobby as something to make money off of. Even your 1960's Mustangs will not give you that much of a return based on what you put into them. And I mean your coupes. If they were fastbacks, then yes, you could make more.

But again, you really need to start rethinking this and stop thinking in terms of "how much money can I make off the car if I were to resell it."

just being smart about it. After I sold the vert I had $2800 cash...I put half that into paying off bills, and the other half into the maverick fund. That left me 0 dollers for whatever my next project was to be, which happened to be a 66 mustang. That wasnt' fair to me. I have 3 kids and struggle to come up with any project money at all, and the fact that I lost out of 75% or more of what I put into the car was silly. I would have at least liked "some" back.

fortunately the 66 was free on a labor trade, and the crate motor/t5 $500 from a VERY good friend, so I built that thing up from nothing, or I would have never been able to do another project car.

This hobby is never an investment for me. I'm just a little wiser about where I spend my cash now.

I've got maybe a total of $2500 invested into my 66 coupe, and besides some bodywork/paint (I've already picked up a virgin 66 shell to swap everything over to) it's worth 8 to 10 grand with ease.

even the coupes have picked up value...I saw too coupes that were stock restorations, and only halfway decent ones at that...one was 14 grand and the other 23 grand. Granted, they were ****ing idiots....but the price for a coupe now if you want a real nice one starts at ten grand, and for the restomod coupes it goes way up from there.

I'm not gonna sell my coupe, but if I was to sell it right now, I'd made 300-400% profit off what I put into the car. Now that's not bad.

[mfpmax]

just be careful, I know you love your 80's mustang...

You seem to keep forgetting what website you're on.

[Ford'sCapri]

just being smart about it. After I sold the vert I had $2800 cash...I put half that into paying off bills, and the other half into the maverick fund. That left me 0 dollers for whatever my next project was to be, which happened to be a 66 mustang. That wasnt' fair to me. I have 3 kids and struggle to come up with any project money at all, and the fact that I lost out of 75% or more of what I put into the car was silly. I would have at least liked "some" back.

fortunately the 66 was free on a labor trade, and the crate motor/t5 $500 from a VERY good friend, so I built that thing up from nothing, or I would have never been able to do another project car.

Do you think because your in California it hurt the value of your vert? I'm asking because a clean car like your would've have to brought in more money around where I live.

[zac_f83]

This is how you dust a 2011 GT:

1. Sell your existing Mustang.
2. Buy one of these:http://www.mustangtraderonline.com/show.php?id=90024

They are very tempermental. Mine was a PITA. But you will eat one alive. Chew them up and spit them out with minimal upgrades, if any.

this /thread... use your fox as a down payment and keep up with GT500's

[85GTTops]

The great thing about the Fox cars is almost everything is able to be retrofitted. That '03 Cobra engine, trans and IRS can all be put in a earlier Fox, and for less than 25K.

Very good point. Although it's a very tight squeeze.

[Marz]

just being smart about it. After I sold the vert I had $2800 cash...I put half that into paying off bills, and the other half into the maverick fund. That left me 0 dollers for whatever my next project was to be, which happened to be a 66 mustang. That wasnt' fair to me. I have 3 kids and struggle to come up with any project money at all, and the fact that I lost out of 75% or more of what I put into the car was silly. I would have at least liked "some" back.

fortunately the 66 was free on a labor trade, and the crate motor/t5 $500 from a VERY good friend, so I built that thing up from nothing, or I would have never been able to do another project car.

This hobby is never an investment for me. I'm just a little wiser about where I spend my cash now.

I've got maybe a total of $2500 invested into my 66 coupe, and besides some bodywork/paint (I've already picked up a virgin 66 shell to swap everything over to) it's worth 8 to 10 grand with ease.

even the coupes have picked up value...I saw too coupes that were stock restorations, and only halfway decent ones at that...one was 14 grand and the other 23 grand. Granted, they were ****ing idiots....but the price for a coupe now if you want a real nice one starts at ten grand, and for the restomod coupes it goes way up from there.

I'm not gonna sell my coupe, but if I was to sell it right now, I'd made 300-400% profit off what I put into the car. Now that's not bad.

Ok, Your still going to view this as a resale thing no matter what I type. To be in this hobby one just cannot look at these cars as money makers.

Also, if you'd have stuck with the 86 GT Vert instead of having a ton of Projects then you would have had one really sweet Vert. Fact is, you were splitting your cash between your other cars, your Vert AND your family... With family is most important.

Tony for example. He has one car to pay attention to and his vert is really sweet. He has a load of cash into that car and he knows he'll never get that cash out of it if he were to sell it. But, the fact is, Tony is having fun with his Vert! THAT is the main point.

Like with my 85 GT. I paid a reasonable 2500 for it. It already had a couple mods I would have done to it anyways (8.8, true duals and sub frames). Body was straight and still had it's original paint and original interior.

I also learned my lesson. TWO cars max. One to work on, the other as a DD with eventually getting to it when car #1 was done. NO third car. It's hard to spread the cash between two cars, let alone three.

In my eyes, that Vert was more YOU than these 60's stangs are. You just got impatient and frustrated with the smog Nazis, which I can understand. But, there are those of us that still have these cars smoged and do performance mods to them and all is fine. I mean you know what I'm doing to my 85 GT and my goals with it. I'm not looking for a "Tony beater" or even a seriously fast car. I got into enough trouble with a stock-ish Mustang. Think of how it'll be with a mild 331 stroker!

[Syco Stang]

Buy a new 5.0 cammer engine and trans, drop it in. Your car weighs less, you will run deep into the 11's with minor bolt ons and a tuneable EFI system.
SS

[86_Notch]

A stock bottom end roller 5.0 with a decent h/c/i package, some 373s and decent tires with a good driver will beat 95 % of the cars you will come across on the street. I can't tell you how many new mustang/ terminator/viper/corvette/etc that I've seen at the track that couldn't break out of the 13s due to poor driving alone.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

All you need is about 365-400hp at the wheels and be able to carry that to 6k and you've got'em beat. That'll match or better the power they're putting out and you still have them by well over 1000lbs. If the car will hook and you know how to drive you'll walk away from them.

[Syco Stang]

All you need is about 365-400hp at the wheels and be able to carry that to 6k and you've got'em beat. That'll match or better the power they're putting out and you still have them by well over 1000lbs. If the car will hook and you know how to drive you'll walk away from them.

Um, that's between 420-460 HP at the crank, you do not need that much power to beat a mid 12 second car. With 300-320hp at the crank, in a 3000lb car and good suspension and a 5 speed you should be running dead even with a mid 12 second car! The key here is torque, not HP numbers like everyone here keeps talking about!!!! That same 5.0 cammer from the 2011 in an '86 Stang with a 5 speed and a 4.10 out back, bone stock, should be running 11.70s on a tire.
A decent 5.0 with 10.5:1 compression, small aluminum heads with small valves, a shorter runner intake and a matching cam should easily mop up the floor with one of those new 5.0's!
SS

[85GTTops]

Um, that's between 420-460 HP at the crank, you do not need that much power to beat a mid 12 second car.

To run 12's in any fox body you'll need at least 350 bhp at the crank. Physics simply demands it. To consistently run 12's, that figure is more like 400 bhp. 420-460 will get you deep into the 12's.

[Syco Stang]

To run 12's in any fox body you'll need at least 350 bhp at the crank. Physics simply demands it. To consistently run 12's, that figure is more like 400 bhp. 420-460 will get you deep into the 12's.

Physics you say? Funny, my 351W powered T top '86 only makes about 400 at the crank and it powered me to a 12.04 @ 113 in 104* weather. I'll have the new setup on the dyno this week, check out my build thread to see how much it will make with the new setup. I'm shooting for 450 at the crank, and that should get me well into the 11s. Torque is the key, not horsepower. I've personally piloted near-stock Stangs into the mid-high 13s and have worked on others that have gone into the 12s with minor bolt ons, one such car made 260rwhp and was running 12.80s at full weight. To think that you need an extra 125 crank HP to get into the 12s is utterly ridiculous.
SS

[Syco Stang]

I see that you're in CO, maybe you're at 10,000 ft above sea level so you need 420-460 corrected HP to get there..... otherwise I see no other way. That kind of power, even in a 302 powered car, you should be at 12.00 or faster anywhere at or below 1000 ft above sea level.

[KingCobra]

That being said, dollar for dollar the 03/04 Cobra platform out-performs every other Ford Mustang platform in overall performance. With the IRS they are formiddable in the turns as well, something the '11's don't have yet. With that cast iron, low compression DOHC platform you can boost all day long, and the car weighs less than a new 2011 by a couple 100 lbs.

I'm a fan of terminators, but that being said they are quite heavy and sadly yes, they are heavier than the new 5.0 cars. The 11' GT's weigh a few pounds over 3600 while the 03' weigh about 60 pounds more.

All you need is about 365-400hp at the wheels and be able to carry that to 6k and you've got'em beat. That'll match or better the power they're putting out and you still have them by well over 1000lbs. If the car will hook and you know how to drive you'll walk away from them.

I don't know why you think he'll have a 1k+ pound weight advantage, but unless his car is stripped he'll have closer to half of that.

with my stock 86 gt. ? will 10,000 do it? or should i sell mine and buy a 2011? money is no prob. like my 86 looks better, i have around that much to mod mine up, new is nice but 30 grand is a lot.

Two words: TURBO KIT
There are many variables to consider when setting goals like this. First and foremost is weight. A 2011 GT with a manual transmission weighs 3603 pounds, with an automatic 3650; I'd estimate your car at ~3200. With an advantage of 400# you'll need less horsepower to match the power-to-weight ratio of the 2011 GT. Since you haven't mentioned whether you have have an automatic or manual transmission an "apple to apple" comparison can't be made. Driveline loss for an automatic is ~25% and for a manual is ~15%. The 2011 GT, based on the dyno charts I've seen, seems to be under rated by quite a bit, somewhere to the tune of 40 crank horsepower. With a 400# weight advantage you'd need ~410 crank horsepower to match the 2011 GT and hope that the guy next to you doesn't have one mod and that you don't make any mistakes. Even at that though, you're only matching the 11', you're not gaining anything; also dismissing many variables such as traction and suspension. With a push-rod 5.0 you're pushing the blocks limits with in excess of 400 horsepower, it could last for years or split in half tomorrow.
Without getting in too deep, you could throw a turbo kit with the necessary upgrades on a stock motor and with 12 lbs of boost you should be atleast as fast as a stock 11' GT. The questions would then be: Will the block hold together? Will the rotating assembly hold up? When will the transmission break? Will the rear grenade? IF you upgraded everything you could expect a reliable 400+ horsepower, if everything was put together right.

[Marz]

Physics you say? Funny, my 351W powered T top '86 only makes about 400 at the crank and it powered me to a 12.04 @ 113 in 104* weather. I'll have the new setup on the dyno this week, check out my build thread to see how much it will make with the new setup. I'm shooting for 450 at the crank, and that should get me well into the 11s. Torque is the key, not horsepower. I've personally piloted near-stock Stangs into the mid-high 13s and have worked on others that have gone into the 12s with minor bolt ons, one such car made 260rwhp and was running 12.80s at full weight. To think that you need an extra 125 crank HP to get into the 12s is utterly ridiculous.
SS

Exactly. Torque gets you off the line. HP keeps you going.

[Marz]

I'm a fan of terminators, but that being said they are quite heavy and sadly yes, they are heavier than the new 5.0 cars. The 11' GT's weigh a few pounds over 3600 while the 03' weigh about 60 pounds more.



I don't know why you think he'll have a 1k+ pound weight advantage, but unless his car is stripped he'll have closer to half of that.



Two words: TURBO KIT
There are many variables to consider when setting goals like this. First and foremost is weight. A 2011 GT with a manual transmission weighs 3603 pounds, with an automatic 3650; I'd estimate your car at ~3200. With an advantage of 400# you'll need less horsepower to match the power-to-weight ratio of the 2011 GT. Since you haven't mentioned whether you have have an automatic or manual transmission an "apple to apple" comparison can't be made. Driveline loss for an automatic is ~25% and for a manual is ~15%. The 2011 GT, based on the dyno charts I've seen, seems to be under rated by quite a bit, somewhere to the tune of 40 crank horsepower. With a 400# weight advantage you'd need ~410 crank horsepower to match the 2011 GT and hope that the guy next to you doesn't have one mod and that you don't make any mistakes. Even at that though, you're only matching the 11', you're not gaining anything; also dismissing many variables such as traction and suspension. With a push-rod 5.0 you're pushing the blocks limits with in excess of 400 horsepower, it could last for years or split in half tomorrow.
Without getting in too deep, you could throw a turbo kit with the necessary upgrades on a stock motor and with 12 lbs of boost you should be atleast as fast as a stock 11' GT. The questions would then be: Will the block hold together? Will the rotating assembly hold up? When will the transmission break? Will the rear grenade? IF you upgraded everything you could expect a reliable 400+ horsepower, if everything was put together right.

Block strength. Wouldn't a dart block be stronger?

[Ford'sCapri]

Block strength. Wouldn't a dart block be stronger?

Or a 351 Windsor....

bobwb, I'm not sure if you've seen the write up in MM&FF but they took a stockish 85 Capri (5.0L 4BBL/5speed) and with bolt ons had it running mid 12's. It's a nice way to see what is possible with some "easy" to do aftermarket parts.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ter/index.html

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

How much do the '11s weigh? I guess i'm going by my car...2880 vs i believe 3600 or so, ok maybe more like 800lbs. Regardless it's plenty enough to put things in your favor.

EDIT, just looked it up and it says BASE curb weight for a manual is estimated at 3875lbs...that equates to 1000lb difference to me and there are lighter Fox's than mine out there.

We can bench race this to death. I've seen 300rwhp cars going high 11s but they where purpose built strip only cars launching off the rev limiter. I don't think that's the case for most of us here which was why i put 60hp more on top of the 300.

[Syco Stang]

Exactly. Torque gets you off the line. HP keeps you going.

That makes no sense.

[KingCobra]

Block strength. Wouldn't a dart block be stronger?

Aftermarket blocks are better, yes, but that's also racking up the cost. If you used the stock block and rotating assembly you could just bolt the turbo kit on and make the necessary upgrades to the fuel system and be off. If you use an aftermarket block then you'll be sending it off to the machine shop and buying, at the very least, a rotating assembly. It's a quick way to lose $4k, but it would be more reliable than the ticking time bomb that the stock block would be. 351's are supposed to be good up to 700HP in most cases, but you'll need a few swap parts. You could build the stock motor and bolt on a turbo kit, but most of the allotted $10k budget would be used, meaning no other upgrades for transmission or rear end. If you knew what you were doing you could piece together a turbo kit and all of the fuel system upgrades for less than $3500 and then have a pile of cash to throw other places, but that'll take time and patience.

How much do the '11s weigh? I guess i'm going by my car...2880 vs i believe 3600 or so, ok maybe more like 800lbs. Regardless it's plenty enough to put things in your favor.

EDIT, just looked it up and it says BASE curb weight for a manual is estimated at 3875lbs...that equates to 1000lb difference to me and there are lighter Fox's than mine out there.

We can bench race this to death. I've seen 300rwhp cars going high 11s but they where purpose built strip only cars launching off the rev limiter. I don't think that's the case for most of us here which was why i put 60hp more on top of the 300.

Coupes are quite a bit lighter in stock form. A stock, full weight 1986 GT would probably weighs more along the lines of 3200 lbs. I've found two sources that say the weight of the manual transmission equip'd 11' GT is a few pounds over 3600.
It's true that variables such as traction, suspension, wind speed, air temp, driver error cannot be accounted for, but if those aren't accounted for an educated guess can be made based on both cars power-to-weight ratio.

Hell, the previous owner was averaging mid-8's in the 1/8th in my car before I bought it. I can only assume it's because of the weight.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Yeah i did forget we were talking about an '86 GT beating an '11...not just a Fox in general. Either way i don't see a healthy bolt on Fox having much problem beating one with a good driver. The bad news is that it's looking like it doesn't take much to get the '11 into the 11s and even faster with some spray and suspension. Anyone else see there's one in the 9s now with a C4?

[eric5oh]

That makes no sense.

Sure it does. What's the problem?

[KingCobra]

Two words: TURBO KIT

Here's an example of what I was talking about:
Boost on a Budget $4,924 = 420HP/465TQ

Here's another article where they boosted a fairly stock fox:
Fox Turbo Upgrade - Sleeper Hit