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  1. #226

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    Sorry I didn't catch it sooner. I would have talked you into taking the turbo apart. It's actually pretty simple. Look on YouTube for a T3 rebuild and it's the same basic thing. The t3 kit is 20 bucks and the carbon seal is 24. Once I saw that #2 cyl was your problem I knew this was it because that is the one that gets gunked up with the oil.
    Last edited by gregpro50; 02-27-2018 at 09:27 PM.
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
    '82 Mustang GT T-top
    '87 Corvette
    '10 Mustang GT Convertible
    '17 F250
    '17 Landrover Discovery Sport

  2. #227

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    Im thinking the previous owner replaced the turbo cartridge but the carbon seal is in the compressor back plate which may have been reused. Its really hard to find the seal too so many try to reuse it.

    I hate these engines. They are a PITA.
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
    '82 Mustang GT T-top
    '87 Corvette
    '10 Mustang GT Convertible
    '17 F250
    '17 Landrover Discovery Sport

  3. #228

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    You need this stupid little thing right here.

    http://gpopshop.com/products-page/al...seal-assembly/
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
    '82 Mustang GT T-top
    '87 Corvette
    '10 Mustang GT Convertible
    '17 F250
    '17 Landrover Discovery Sport

  4. #229

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    Replacement instructions. These things are stupid fragile too. A simple backfire can ruin them.

    http://gpopshop.com/one-piece-carbon-seal-installation/
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
    '82 Mustang GT T-top
    '87 Corvette
    '10 Mustang GT Convertible
    '17 F250
    '17 Landrover Discovery Sport

  5. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpro50 View Post
    Replacement instructions. These things are stupid fragile too. A simple backfire can ruin them.

    http://gpopshop.com/one-piece-carbon-seal-installation/
    Very much appreciated Greg thank you! At least I have a path now vs. contemplating a complete teardown.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  6. #231

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    That is the only place in the world I could find to get them too. If you have any turbo questions the folks there are really helpful.
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
    '82 Mustang GT T-top
    '87 Corvette
    '10 Mustang GT Convertible
    '17 F250
    '17 Landrover Discovery Sport

  7. #232
    FEP Supporter

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    Decatur Alabama
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    E-mail and pics sent.
    Kendal

  8. #233

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    Thank you Kendal!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  9. #234

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    GR is this the port you want to see where mine is connected?
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  10. #235
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Yes sir that's the one (big one on the right).

    Turbo smoke.
    I noticed connecting vac lines a certain way can cause more smoke out the back when boosting.
    For a few years, bypassed my turbo with a straight pipe connection from manifold to cat.
    Drove it until ready to rebuild spare turbo and new crossover pipe was fabbed.
    Finally had time to take the spare turbo to a rebuilder.
    Dang turbo. What a bummer. Blue smoke under boost. Engine did not smoke like that in its n/a config.
    Not nearly as bad now.
    Old muscle cars would billow smoke blasting thru gears ('cleaning the plugs') after slow cruising.
    Seen new cars do this too.

  11. #236

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    sorry double post
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  12. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by m81mclaren View Post
    GR is this the port you want to see where mine is connected?
    GR the larger port circled on the turbo WG actuator runs up to the back of air cleaner housing to the port that points towards to the valve cover oil fill. Here's a pic but is it correct? I am not sure but that's how it came on my car.

    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  13. #238
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Yes. thanks. That's it. Perfect pic. Others before have asked this too.
    Seen a few other turbo pics recently with same connection.
    It is were mine is.

    Engine was in pieces for 5 years. Not all things were documented.
    For some reason felt it may connect to the vac tree under the carb.
    The hose fits there too. Does not run well doing that.
    The situation was: Did it go up front there and my tuning was way off?
    Or did it route to the a/c where it simply seems to do nothing but was correct.
    Did not help to recall having seen it mistakenly connected there somewhere.

  14. #239

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    Turbo finally coming back off for new seals without the manifold this time. I'm down to 2 items giving me grief including an air line at the hot side and the oil drain line. I bought a 19mm wrench for the air line which I will try tonight. I should have broke it free when I had it on the bench last time it was out as a unit for servicing later. Tip for you all if you go down this path someday!

    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  15. #240

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    So it's finally back out. In addition to removing several vacuum lines, the throttle cable/mount, oil feed line, and a bunch of other small items I had to undo both exhaust connections at the turbo and the other on the exhaust mani side as well as remove the turbo pressure valve in order to wiggle it out. No doubt there was more oil in here than I expected and would explain some of the exhaust smoking.

    I'm debating whether I should send the whole turbo to g-pop shop for inspection and the new carbon seal install or attempt it myself. I've read instructions and watched some online tutorials but nobody addresses how to mark both turbine wheels in relation to the housings in order to keep the balance. I'm not even sure that the unit was balanced properly after it was rebuilt last time before I purchased it or if they used the correct carbon seal. I don't want to make a mistake and have to take this thing back off again. Several of the bolts can only be turned a tenth at a time given the constraints for space. Now some pics!










    Pretty sure I damaged this seal on the way out while wiggling it with the pressure valve still on and not the way in last time...


    Does this oil feed bung look like a proper restriction size? Inside diameter measures 3.93mm or or 5/32


    Thanks for the continued support and feel free to share any feedback/advice!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 05-08-2018 at 09:51 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  16. #241

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    I decided after doing some research to go ahead and disassemble the T3 myself. It was really not that hard but made sure to take lots of pictures and to carefully mark the turbines in relation to each other as well as the housings and how those were clocked so I can re-assemble things correctly. Greg called it as the carbon seal in the back plate was cracked. What I'm not clear on is if the carbon seal was ever replaced (it does look pretty shiny on the collar along with most everything else but the hot side) and if so is it the correct one? Also to my eye it looks like there should be an o-ring on the hot side turbine wheel shaft but maybe not as the kits I see only have a seal ring next to that empty groove. My seal ring on that end is really clogged up with coked oil/debris. Anyways I'm going to either send them just my backplate for the carbon seal replacement which they will install for free and buy the kit to rebuild the turbo myself or potentially send them everything for the rebuild/balancing and just install the complete center section in my housings. I'm not confident that I won't break the fragile carbon seal again when tightening down the trubine shafts in final assembly. If you care here are some pics!











    Last edited by m81mclaren; 05-18-2018 at 07:45 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  17. #242
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
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    3,221

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    Good fortune with the rebuild. The T03 60 also can take a T04 turbine machined down, and the parts to retrot fit reliable parts into a T03 60 exist. Nissan Australia used to race the Bluebrid 910 with these, and Holden, the Nissan RB30E Turbo had the T03 60 series turbo as did the Lotus Esprit Turbo, so there is a lot of expertise around for these old turbos. Hang in with the rebuild. Its fragile past 360 hp, but it can take a cut down T04 turbine, and then it can make 600 hp with 44 pounds boost reliably.


    So don't loose hope with it. 132 to 175 hp, its perfectly reliable.



    The only thing you gotta watch is that no parts of the primary catalyst substrate get into the turbo exhaust impellor from the cross over header.




    Hey, m81mclaren.


    One burning question probably only you can answer.



    The 2.3 Carb turbo CA or 1980 2.3 Carb Turbo MCU system brain box, I've not been able to identify it on any schematic or picture yet.


    Your or any other Feedback Turbo 2.3 Carb Mustang or Capri looks like it only has a Yellow Strain Relief Duraspark II and those two Green and Orange adjustment switches on the top, and then the two pink and one yellow knobs below it....not any MCU box per se.

    Here is you system again.





    Can you confirm that there ISN'T an MCU box like the ones below anywhere?

    I'm gussing it might not be in the normal place above the DSII spak box, and its not where the Green boost relay is by your washer and coolant container like all the other MCU 2.3, 3.8, 4.2 and 5.0 Foxes with feedback carbs.

    3.8 V6 Cali spec Granada, DD code MCU, Orange Strain relief





    4.2 D code Cali spec T bird, same Orange Strain relief




    Is there, in the Feedback CA Turbo 2.3 carb 1979 or 1980 engine bay, an MCU box with a Strain relief like these?

    Examples?

    For instance, a VV7200 equiped MCU. They normally have a red or orange strain relief that goes on the white plug.

    Post #7 on http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/57...-computer.html show



    EX and DN coded MCU's with White Strain Relief...they are for CA and Hi Alt V8 F trucks and CA passenger cars. Although the same generically, they TPS and knocksensor similarity, but they aren't interchangable beween other engine groups. .


    Any thing 1981-1995 and MCU V8 Windsor OHV should look similar. Candian and some US P series Panther Cop cars used them right up till 1991, I've heard.

    Blue Strain relief MCU computers from 2.3 CARB 4 cylinder cars look like this

    E1ZF-12A651-D2A box number P076 or
    E1ZF-12A651-D1A with box number P072 or 4072 ....


    The 1983 Ranger E3-TZ-12A651-C with GN bar code for 83's, or an HB bar code for 4.9 Bix Six 84 pick ups's......






    Never, ever seen me a 2.3 Feedback Turbo MCU from 1979 to 1980.

    Does yours have one, m81mclaren?

    Its the same as the ones backing up a 50 year old YF Carter carb electroncially like on this 1984 2.3 Ranger

    http://www.therangerstation.com/foru...d.php?t=123801




    I'll bet its bomb proof Silicon Valley electronics. This one looks like its been through an Oregon forrest fire....



    Here are the non turbo 2.3 carb MCU's from 1979-1982


    Box Code P072, P074 or P076 items for automatic Foxes on ebay. Part numbers




    1981 FORD MUSTANG 2.3L AT ECU_ECM #E1ZF-12A651-D1A is box number P072 or 4072


    1981 FORD MUSTANG 2.3L 4cyl ECU_ECM #E1ZF-12A651-C2A is box number P074 or 4074


    1981 Ford Mustang Mercury Cougar E1ZF-12A651-D2A is box number P076

  18. #243

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    X, thanks the Turbo is on it's way back from the rebuild but I wont be able to install it for 2 weeks or so due to schedule conflicts plus I'm trying to source Fel-Pro ES72816 replacement manifold & turbo o-rings having just missed a set that was up on eBay. The shop said the Turbo was excellent other than a light cleaning, seals and needing a proper balance. I'll poke around but I do not recall seeing an MCU under the hood as pictured. Mine has a mechanical fuel pump and carb working with the Duraspark ignition as you noted.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  19. #244
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default turbo related notes from past DIY work

    Thanks for the pics of the turbo.
    Never seen real pics of the internals.

    Module:
    My 79 2.3T uses a Motorcraft DY-237-A or D9AZ-12A199C module assy.
    Two yellow strain reliefs on side. One has 2 wires, one has 4.
    No other connections. Two black harness connectors.
    Connectors, wire codes to module:
    One 2 wire (pink, white), one 4 wire (green, orange, purple, black/green stripe).
    The 2 wire connects to the sensors. The 4 wire connects to the distributor.
    Only other turbo boost related item under hood is the two level sensor assy on fender.
    For red over boost warning light/buzzer, green TURBO light, ignition timing retard under boost.
    The warning modules, buzzers, are behind ps dash.


    Oil fitting for turbo bearing:
    The brass oil feed fitting to the bearing looks the same as mine.
    It is the oem one. A spare turbo has the same.


    Turbo mounting o-rings:
    The turbo o-rings are included in Fel-Pro HS 8993 PT-1 head set kit (gaskets).
    Turbo Mounting "O" ring, individual listings on box, says p/n 95159, 95160, 95161, Taiwan.
    Ran across the same problem finding 720816 kit in stock. Ordered one from local auto parts.


    The 4th o-ring:
    Had to use one regular o-ring. Did not come in kit. Of course i measured it. Thickness and dia.
    Had the other 3.
    Was the rectangular shaped one, aluminum manifold flange adapter. Is just a reg round in a rect. groove.
    Used a dental pick to get it out. Old one was pretty well shrunk below the flange.
    The o-rings are not NASA items. Nothing special far as i know, other than having oil rated spec.


    Felpro ES72816:
    https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FPBES72816
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...SABEgIQS_D_BwE

    Any auto part store could order the 720816 kit if not in stock.
    I see Mahle offers full gasket kits too per AZ site.

  20. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    Thanks for the pics of the turbo.
    Never seen real pics of the internals.

    Module:
    My 79 2.3T uses a Motorcraft DY-237-A or D9AZ-12A199C module assy.
    Two yellow strain reliefs on side. One has 2 wires, one has 4.
    No other connections. Two black harness connectors.
    Connectors, wire codes to module:
    One 2 wire (pink, white), one 4 wire (green, orange, purple, black/green stripe).
    The 2 wire connects to the sensors. The 4 wire connects to the distributor.
    Only other turbo boost related item under hood is the two level sensor assy on fender.
    For red over boost warning light/buzzer, green TURBO light, ignition timing retard under boost.
    The warning modules, buzzers, are behind ps dash.


    Oil fitting for turbo bearing:
    The brass oil feed fitting to the bearing looks the same as mine.
    It is the oem one. A spare turbo has the same.


    Turbo mounting o-rings:
    The turbo o-rings are included in Fel-Pro HS 8993 PT-1 head set kit (gaskets).
    Turbo Mounting "O" ring, individual listings on box, says p/n 95159, 95160, 95161, Taiwan.
    Ran across the same problem finding 720816 kit in stock. Ordered one from local auto parts.


    The 4th o-ring:
    Had to use one regular o-ring. Did not come in kit. Of course i measured it. Thickness and dia.
    Had the other 3.
    Was the rectangular shaped one, aluminum manifold flange adapter. Is just a reg round in a rect. groove.
    Used a dental pick to get it out. Old one was pretty well shrunk below the flange.
    The o-rings are not NASA items. Nothing special far as i know, other than having oil rated spec.


    Felpro ES72816:
    https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FPBES72816
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...SABEgIQS_D_BwE

    Any auto part store could order the 720816 kit if not in stock.
    I see Mahle offers full gasket kits too per AZ site.
    Thanks GR, my full FP gasket kit had the o-rings in there as you suggested but I damaged one in the removal process as pictured. If I can't source the FelPro 72816 I'll measure and go generic. Inquiries out already!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  21. #246

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    FWIW if anyone is searching for these turbocharger o-rings (NLA FORD D9ZZ-9G487C or more recently Fel-Pro ES72816) here is what I came up with Gargling and measuring with my digital calipers:

    This turbo manifold inlet O-ring Ford#81141-S96 measures 2 ID , 3/32 width


    This turbo compressor housing to manifold o-ring Ford# 87103-S96 measures 1 3/8 ID, 13/64 width



    This turbo Oil drain o-ring: Ford # 87203-S96 measures 15/16 ID , 1/16 width


    Turns out I have the housing and the big manifold o-ring new still from my FelPro master gasket kit and just need to source the oil drain one. Hopefully it's readily available @ the hardware or auto parts store.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 07-24-2018 at 08:46 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  22. #247
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    O rings have three dimensions. Id, od, wall. They also have specs for hardness, material type, shape.

    Danco #019 may be one. 13/16" x 15/16" x 1/16"
    or
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-Bo...4368/203574459
    https://www.grainger.com/category/o-.../N-mg7Z1yza7xo

    The 4th one i mentioned is between the turbo center section and the 2 bolt aluminum adapter.
    The one still bolted up on yours. If no external leak there, is ok.

    Boy, had fun getting some for my under sink water filter counter spout. They did fix the leak.
    Match with old. Had to be exact. Did use a little silicone grease on them.
    O ring package numbers are confusing. Part number increments do not match size increments.
    Being inexpensive, bought several different to save store trips (gas used cost more than item).
    Took hours online on Menard's, HD sites to pick sizes close to one another.

    Different manufacturers have different numbers for the same thing. AS568-xxx or something.
    One store has one brand, other store different. Hard to find any simple cross reference charts.

  23. #248

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    GR I was poking around online and found a dizzying versions of o-ring types as you mentioned. Thankfully a great dude from FelPro called me back and was able to point me to a regional auto store that had one confirmed still in stock collecting dust. I won't have to wait for one to pop up on eBay again or buy something that may not be just right. It's good to know I'm getting the exact part
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 07-26-2018 at 02:55 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  24. #249
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    SE Michigan
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    Good deal.
    Nice to know how the system is working for old parts.
    Called local NAPA whs today. Was told they basically do the same procedure.
    Even when it is listed on the site as an available part.
    Surely there are more kits out there collecting dust.
    Spare o-rings on hand, kits or from hardware store, are handy for future repairs.

    Picked up a 2.3 na intake manifold as a spare just in case the carb turbo setup goes down memory lane.
    Also have a complete spare turbo manifold assy too. Manifold, carb, turbo, 'gate. Never know.
    Has been a valuable test fit fixture for recent upcoming mod project.

    Thank Ford for keeping cars relatively simple back then so we can still enjoy them.
    Interchangeable parts between years and models, high volumes made, common hardware items, durability.
    Sure parts, like dash pads, cracked too soon. Major highly visible result of cost cutting in wrong area?

    Can't really complain:
    Thankful there are few major parts that fail or wear, not easily repaired or replaced, like 84-86 SVO ft control arms.

    Blue Book = 30 grand for used 2013 90k F-250 Lariat with worn suspension, tires, and drive train is sickening real.
    Lower volume new Mustangs are race and luxury combined into one. Three car expense on 4 wheels.
    Regular daily driver, race car, luxury car.

  25. #250

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    GPOP delivered and looks beautiful! Picked up the FelPro o-ring kit and now the last item to source is the gasket for the hot side manifold that I didn't need to split open in the first place
    Name:  40390045440_ee0e7ebd7a_b.jpg
Views: 84
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    Does anyone know where to source this last piece that goes between the hot side housing to exhaust manifold?
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 08-03-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

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