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  1. #426
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
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    Default

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...27#post1871727

    Please check with and PM http://vb.foureyedpride.com/search.php?searchid=1074128.

    Ask Roger (person 14 from left, behind the Dark Red car , white shirt no jacket, was a fuel engineer)



    The dark red Mercury Capri

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...k-for-Fox-Cars
    "http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/svo2scj/1978Fox.jpg"


    There was another power-train engineer who discussed the turbo 2.3 gearbox development and vibration and noise updates last year. Those guys normally hang out with certifications, so they have access to development info.

    An earlier non EFi fuel engineer will help you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxEngr View Post
    I have posted in the New User section but someone suggested I move to this area- I will try and answer questions on topics I have knowledge about. This site is all new to me and I am very impressed at the large number of users and beautiful cars. It is pleasant to read of your excitement and enthusiasm for the Fox vehicles. I am remembering some of my favorite test prototypes and press shows where we showed off the new cars- the 1978 Fairmont/Zephyr Z7- 1979 Red Mustang V8 4 speed - 1980 WhiteTurbo Mustang - 1980 Red Capri - 1984 Thunderbird - I was assigned to the Light Vehicle Evaluation team for the Fox Program. I still have a favorite picture of me standing next to the 79 Capri on the Ford Test Track. Many of the Ford people were excited about our cars and jobs.
    The Vehicle Development group worked with prototypes about 1 year before production. We would try and improve things like engine response /ride motion and ease of operation. We worked out of the Experimental Garage and the Test Track next door. My job was primarily in Powertrain Evaluation. There was a different group that did engine calibration and Noise/Vibration/Harshness work. Thanks for your warm response to date. Roger


    Blue86's

    http://www.foureyedpride.com/content...inner-Blue86-s

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/member.php?4633-Blue86
    His dad is a retired Ford engineer as well. He worked at Ford for forty years. In the eighties he worked in engine development and SVO.

  2. #427

    Default

    Ok so a few more hours in and we are 90% through the vacuum line tracing/fixing. I've added the two lines for the A/C side (right) SOLV and part of the anti-backfire device as well as completed the A/CL BI MET lines. She is idling and running very well and spools great except for now after the other vacuum fixes I have a concerning carb backfire/poof with a cloud of black smoke when on full throttle and I put the clutch in to shift gears (so much for adding in the anti-backfire device!). If I make very slow shifts it's no problem. This is no buenos and must be fixed so I won't do any further full pulls. I'm sourcing the missing A/CL TVS from National Parts Depot so I can fully connect the AIR BPV/ANTI BF system which I hope will solve this issue as I don't want to blow up the turbo carbon seal. I am doubtful but may play with the timing again in the meantime.

    My AFR gauge still does not read at idle by wiring directly to battery so I think it needs to be replaced in order to trust the readings for fine tuning.

    I do not see the FLTR that connects to the AIR BPV in my engine compartment as that upper port is closed. Does anyone know what it's function is and have a picture of said FLTR?

    Finally this is the Vacuum Control Valve right?

    This pic is my old setup with lower VCV port going to the IVV and the other to the air port next to the primary carb mixture screw. The IVV lines are now fixed per the VECI diagram (to small A/CL CWM port and to the formerly open EGR port) but the VCV lower port is now open which is supposed to go to the E port on the carb with a SA FV which I also don't have). It is supposed to go to a tee then to the VDV then to the purge canister center line which is also open at the moment. Looks like I need to source a VDV and SA-FV in order to finalize all of this.

    Lastly I have a large vacuum line (turquoise stripe) running from the firewall RT corner area to the large A/CL CWM port but I can't ID this Line on the VECI. Anyone know what this does? Does the stripe designate something specific? At the split valve one goes in the firewall behind the glove box somewhere while the other one disappears behind the fender.


    Here's my Purge CV with middle orange?/pink? (it splits into two lines not sure why as the VECI only shows as single line; same thing on the Left SOLV lines where both split into two then back to one...strange) that needs to route to VCV.
    [/url]
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 02-12-2019 at 02:47 AM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  3. #428

    Default

    Well I have my new red NOS TVS and retaining clip from NPD as well as the replacement AFR gauge from AEM. My gauge was deemed bad after the brake clean rag test confirmed the gauge was not reading accurately. Will install and test this weekend and if all goes well take a trip to the smog man for a test. Already purchased my ticket for Goodguys show end of the month so going to make this happen!


    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-13-2019 at 03:55 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  4. #429

    Default

    The line running to the passenger side fender and through the firewall to the HVAC is from manifold vacuum to the HVAC controls. The line teed to go under the fender as there is normally a vacuum reservoir there to provide a constant source for the HVAC controls. The Tee fitting probably has a check valve in it so that nothing else can pull vacuum from this reservoir except HVAC valves from under the dash.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  5. #430

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
    The line running to the passenger side fender and through the firewall to the HVAC is from manifold vacuum to the HVAC controls. The line teed to go under the fender as there is normally a vacuum reservoir there to provide a constant source for the HVAC controls. The Tee fitting probably has a check valve in it so that nothing else can pull vacuum from this reservoir except HVAC valves from under the dash.
    Thanks for confirming Jack.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  6. #431

    Default

    It was a stunning, sunny day so we got the TVS and all the vacuum lines hooked up and triple checked. We are currently running without the VDV and SA FV that route in the lines from the VCV to the CARB and Purge CV on the right side of the diagram. We checked the parts store and they could not find a cross reference for either Ford part# nor do I have any specs on them so I still have a little hunting for those two last items. There are a couple carb vacuum lines that I can't decode (neither could my carb guy) but think we have it right and they all have a home.

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    The BAR referee shop said I don't have to see them for the smog test and I can go to any smog station so I may run it as is without the VDV and SA FV and see what happens.

    Otherwise it's running well and we hard wired the replacement AEM brand AFR wideband gauge but unfortunately it too is not reading right so need to still figure out what's going on with this before I get on it for fear of going lean. Time for some cleaning, detailing, install the NOS BBS caps, address the brakes and cracked steering rack bellows. The list is getting short in time for Goodguys! Hope you all are having a great weekend.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-16-2019 at 11:04 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  7. #432

    Default



    I'm killing you all with this I know but I'm down to sourcing literally the last two parts to make this 100% right and could use any helpful eyes/tips on ID'ing these correctly.

    SA-FV-
    I think I need SA-FV part # 9C369 however the only thing I am finding is stuff from presumably 1974 D4FZ-9C369-A which may or may not be the right one for my application. Does anyone have have a clue if there is current or changed part# for this or can I pick this up with confidence? Looks like this:


    VDV- Vacuum Delay Valve sits between Purge CV and tee that goes to the upper port of the VCV. It is not tied into the SPK RET system or distributor and I don't have any kind of spec on it or know which color I should buy. Parts store had 5 different ones with different colors including black/opaque and none cross referenced to part# 12A189 listed in my VECI book parts ID section and there is no specification. FleaBay has exactly four listed all with different colors as well with Black/Yellow, Blue, Brown, and Red and indicate "Spark Vacuum Delay" and list DIST and CARB on each side rather than just Vacuum delay so not sure this is the right type of delay valve. How the heck do I choose or ID the right one without finding a 1979/80 in a junkyard that happens to have one?!
    Examples:
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-20-2019 at 07:35 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  8. #433

    Default

    I don't know if this will be of any help at all, but I'll post it just in case. They are Ford photos of a 1979 Mustang 2.3l engine compartment. I do not remember where I got them. You might be able to zoom into the photos and look at the colors of the parts or vacuum hoses and learn something.

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    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  9. #434

    Default

    If you click on the links below, they should appear in a new window. Then you can click on each image to make them full size to get better resolution.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachme...4&d=1553130559

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachme...5&d=1553130561
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  10. #435
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

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    Nice. Jacks two photos are shown as itemized and labelled in the same landscape and portrait pictures.(See bellow references so as not to post hog).

    Ford used 9 element code breakout coloring for VECI's as of 1982.

    Stormin'Norman's source of color identification

    Red = Main vacuum
    Green = EGR function
    Orange = Heat control Valve (exhaust & intake) (AKA heat riser but more complex)
    YellowYellow = Distributor advance
    White = EGR vacuum (source)
    Black = Mainly used for the Evaporative emissions control
    Brown = Thermactor ACV or Diverter valve
    Blue = Throttle Kicker control
    Pink = Thermactor Air Bypass Valve (BPV)




    The photo below and above use a different 10 element Air Conditioning, power steering and Body Vac catagory. Internally, Ford had it all mapped out, the call names are the same basically.

    Gregpro in post # 10
    Georgez in post #17
    and myself in post #11 itemised the exact location of the VDV, which is in the 2.3 Turbo Carb, white and black VDV.

    Go to Gregpro's post on page 1 of 3

    1979 Turbo 2.3 vacuum lines

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    The following post might help you a little more....Sadly, TuxStangs far right view of the "9G328 Idle Vacuum Valve (IVV)" has dropped off the net and isn't able to be retrived.








    Center disk is 9G328 Idle Vacuum Valve (IVV), gregpro50

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgez
    Great job to have documented the lines. Mines are still original. I do understand the original owner didn´t change anything. I also taped the lines and made some ilustrations. Attached images if can help anyone else. I have plenty of them more if someone needs.





    And Jacks version of the non turbo 1979 manual 2300, modified to show FoMoCo's pre 1982 VECI key





    The VDV has been shifted closer to the carb on the Turbo 2.3

  11. #436

    Default

    Wow thank you Jack and X! Jack do you happen to own an early carb 2.3T? Those factory pics are amazing!

    X, thanks again for the references on the VDV. I can see in those posts the black/white VDV so that's what I believe I need. I'd love to see if anyone can confirm the if their VDV in between the Purge CV and VCV has part# 12A189 and if it says CARB on one side and DIST on the other. All three cars have a slightly diff setups which is expected. The pics also confirm the SA-FV which I now find on NPD's website (edit- actually now they say it is NLA) so it's down to getting the correct VDV as far as the 49 state VECI diagram I'm following goes.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-21-2019 at 04:44 PM. Reason: more detail
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  12. #437

    Default

    No I don't. But I do have a 2.3l Turbo in a MazdaSpeed6, a 2.0l Turbo in a WRX and a 2.3l Turbo EcoBoost engine in my 1987 Mustang. No carbs anywhere

    I don't remember where I found those Ford photos, but I definitely made sure to save them.
    Jack Hidley
    Maximum Motorsports Tech Support

  13. #438

    Default

    I have 2 factory 2.3 turbo cars that are all stock and have all the vac lines and turbo and housing from a car I parted out years ago . I have a lot of the little round plastic vacuum pieces also. What one's are you needed ? I probably have one stashed away. Let me know if I can help . 515-249-5253

  14. #439

    Default

    Thanks Jack. Holy crap I'd love to see that Ecoboost fox sometime. I'm very nearby if you ever get out and about!

    Hi Indypacecar, I am looking for the part number for the small black and white Vacuum Delay Valve as shown in this picture. It connects near the Carb and the Vacuum Control Valve (which is on the top of the manifold next to the turbo).


    I think it's now likely 12A245 or 9E897. I am not smart enough to understand how the system flows (bi-direction or only one way) or I could narrow down which one I need. I cannot find a 12A245 in any of my parts searches so I may be out of luck. Also in looking at GeorgeZ's pictures he appears to have two VCV's whereas mine only has the one but at least if I could find out which part number is on his VDV I could feel good that it's the right one.











    I am also looking for the other device the SA-FV in the picture but that is still available new on EBay. Thx!!!
    .
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-21-2019 at 06:47 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  15. #440

  16. #441

  17. #442

    Default

    Awesome! Does that line from D32E-AA (aka 12A091) white side route to your distributor or does go across the engine bay to the Purge CV (the green thingamabob with 3 ports on it)?
    This one


    Thank you!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-21-2019 at 07:50 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  18. #443

    Default

    It runs to the charcoal canister on my 1979 pacecar.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  19. #444

    Default

    Perfect! I'm betting it's the right one because it goes to fuel related and not to the distributor to perform a different delay function. Thank you so much for the help and picture upload. Now browsing EBay as all 4 of my local shops are a no/go on this one and the SA-FV.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  20. #445

    Default

    You are very welcome. Glad i could help. Let me know if you need anymore pictures or any parts.

  21. #446

    Default Smog test?!!

    I'm going in for Smog this afternoon and want to set it so it is likely to pass. I adjusted everything to factory spec for base timing 6 degrees and timing idle @ around 550 RPM's with vacuum advance disconnected, ignition module unplugged and the rad fan blowing. However my AFR gauge is reading full lean at idle and playing with the idle mixture screw does not make any change. IIRC to set a good baseline on the idle mixture I turn the screw all the way in then back it out 2 full turns then fine-tune (in for lean/out for rich right?) for highest vacuum is that right?

    Update: Oh man it drives poorly with AFR's sky high with this timing setup. Then when I adjust timing to where the car runs best which seems to be 22-24 degrees there's no way I can get through smog as they will fail immediately you if you don't come in at factory spec for idle, timing, EVAP, gas cap and the sniff test for HC's, CO's and NO's. The three shops I talked to wont make adjustments so not sure what to do.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-22-2019 at 04:29 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  22. #447

    Default

    Smog test was a success and she ran very clean. Because the tremendous support, help, pictures, links and feedback from you all on this thread we got everything connected where it should and I can feel good that I'm 100% compliant and correct!

    I'll add in the New Old stock SA-FV and VDV on Friday when they comes in and install them in the proper places. Hope I can help others the way you have helped me and pay it forward.

    Of course the last week did not come with some additional drama and 5 trips between the Smog, the Referee and DMV so I still have some paperwork to take care of before I can collect my tags. Last stickers on the plate show Dec 1991- 28 years ago!!

    Update: 2 more hours at the DMV this afternoon and I have the paperwork in process and a 30 day tag in my hands so we will definitely make the show!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 03-26-2019 at 09:19 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  23. #448
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default




    Don't fear the Smog Reeper!

    You...Nailed it!

  24. #449

    Default

    The M81 sure caused a lot of double-takes and fun conversations with like-minded Ford nuts. It seems almost everyone I talked to owned an SVO at some point. My son and I had a great time and we finally had the payoff in terms of gratification for all the hard work put in to get it back on the road. Funny enough I did hear one guy comment to his buddy something about my Monza! Wished I had taken a few more pictures though



    Jack it was great meeting and talking with you at the show!! Maybe you can share/PM a few of the pics you took of the car as I only snapped these two photos! Hope to see your 2.3 Ecoboost someday!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 04-05-2019 at 12:34 AM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  25. #450
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    5,141

    Default Great pics back in the public spotlight

    Happy congrads on the huge recent progress, achieving the trip/show goal, and enjoying the cars new life.
    Did hold off posting until latest result was revealed.

    Piece of mind to know what has been done with memories and knowledge carried along when driving it. A bond.
    My car's 2nd life on the road has been 2x as long as first span on the road (1978-1987), 2000- present.
    It's a different car in a good way when one renews it, vs work/assy totally done at the factory or others.
    Has been a good car again, now that time has given it much better parts, mods, fixes for flaws. Spare car status helps.

    Taking pics is hard while actually participating in the action, in character. The air/focus is different 'on stage'.
    Like a ballplayer in the dugout or off the clock, vs being on the clock at the mound. Takes getting used to.

    Learned to set up use my Samsung Galaxy phone camera and video efficiently as a tool. Works like my Kodak.
    Never activated phone. Removed the carrier chip in it first day i got it.
    Phone is a very useful tool with certain apps installed, and configured for a easy data/charge usb connection to pc.
    Easily 'drawn', using a collapsible can koozie as a pocket holster. Camera is set for quick launch.
    Last edited by gr79; 04-05-2019 at 01:40 AM.

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