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  1. #201

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    That's funny GR! I searched 3 local home improvements and finally found a 2 pack @ Home Depot for $.69 so have an extra if you want it!
    Last bit needed is the oil feed line as the brake shop advised I go with braided teflon instead so I'm on the hunt for what I think is an 18" 4 AN line but with ends that have a brake line like radius so they seat properly on the turbo and sender ends (see pic below). I did not see any restrictor ball (or it rolled off somewhere) so I assume the size of the fitting determines the oil flow. Hopefully I can find this but nothing coming up online...



    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-19-2017 at 07:32 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  2. #202

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    Turns out good old standard 1/4" brake line which has SAE Double inverted flare (45 degrees) is the right unit and is only $3 but needs to be bent into a complex S like shape from the oil pressure sensor to the turbo feed. Tip from an old timer at the store to bend without kinking is to put a spring around the brake line and use it to shape the bend. My first attempt looked pretty damn great from my template but after install was off a fair bit. When I tried to tweak it again I just so slightly kinked it. It should be just fine but will attempt a new version with the spare line once everything is back in final position. Looking for confirmation if teflon tape is good here for oil feed or if I should use the liquid type high temp sealant instead (I have it)? Judging from this side of the block there was leaking oil all over the place!




    Also I installed this sending unit back on the passenger side rear of the head with teflon tape. Does anyone know what this is for?

    I assumed water temperature but my crappy Haynes shows the water temp sensor is just below the oil sensor on the DS of the block.

    Thanks if your still following along! It's quiet around here lately
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-26-2017 at 07:33 PM. Reason: pic/spelling
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  3. #203
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    The positive stuff. Good.
    Mine has run normally for many fun years, more reliable than most give these engines credit for.

    Steel line:
    Have bent poly-a brake line to a much tighter radius than pictured when duplicating one of the Ranger's front brake line sections.
    There is a pretty tight 180 at the abs block.
    A tubing bender, or whatever improvised item that had the radius needed, was used.
    Have used teflon tape on the fitting. Not white but yellow for gas/oil. Used what was on hand too.
    The liquid is prob better.

    Sensor:
    Per 1979 Ford Mustang/Capri EVTM and 1979 Ford Service Highlights Publication, 2.3 Engine Turbocharger:
    There are multiple mentions of the switch, its operation, wire circuit and wire color code, connectors.
    But no drawings or pics showing exact location on engine. What/where else could it be?

    The gauge temp sensor is under the oil pressure sending unit.
    This one, in described location on engine, is a hot oil temp switch far as i can tell.
    If oil gets too hot, it closes, trips a blinker, making the red over boost warning indicator blink on and off.
    Looks like its a coolant temp sensor used for oil temp duty.
    Check: an oil passageway/oil back in the sensor hole or on the sensor end itself.
    Never found any new parts listings anywhere of this sensor. Or what to use if it leaks or fails.
    Listings are sensors calibrated for temp gauge. What parts bin did Ford pick it from? Std warning light style sensor?

    Negative stuff:
    The Ford 2.3 carb turbo info gap.
    Most popular 4cyl turbos of the 80's were efi.
    What was it..a short 2-3 year production run, going on 40 years ago.
    Over the years, plenty of negative comments from both non-owners and owners.
    Many have been swapped out for a v8.

    Reverse engineering sometimes needed. What did Ford and others do, use, think?
    It being from the analog age is in its favor. More mechanical than electronic-digital.
    The engineers and techs from back then have scattered.
    I live in the Detroit area near GM, FCA, Ford everything.
    McLaren, Roush, Livernois MS and Engineering. Local car shows former old employees prob are attending.
    Hard to know who's who.

    Thing is, they 'in the know' now drive other things and their knowledge remains hidden.
    Surely JR would remember something or where a current tech source for these engines is, but is always busy in public.
    Keep forgetting to ask him. He attends his own shows locally signing autographs.
    Last edited by gr79; 10-26-2017 at 11:48 PM.

  4. #204

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    Thanks again as always GR. Here is the oil pressure sender on the DS which is mounted on top and the oil distribution block and the other sender below it on the block that I think is coolant related.


    Here is the one I am trying to figure out on the passenger side; it looks coolant related to me but nothing more I can go on.


    (Kendal any chance you can ID the wire color that goes to the sender in this slot on yours?)
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-27-2017 at 01:38 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  5. #205
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Weather permitting this weekend, will remove that sensor and see whats in the hole, oil or coolant.
    The mystery PS one in the cyl head.
    Basically is in the same position as the oil sender on the other side.
    Don't think i ever took it out, even when i had the head redone.
    Mainly because have never been totally sure what it is. So if it got damaged, would be stumped what to do.
    Plus check if it has an o/lg wire, which the 79 EVTM shows going to the hot oil temp switch.

    The DS sensor in the block is a water temp sensor.
    In 79, water temp sender is r/w wire (oil sender is w/r).
    In the EVTM, a black and white engine view drawing specifically shows its location highlighted in blue.

    Plus, found out the hard way what it was when breaking in the engine last rebuild.
    A tiny piece of tape i used for marking the terminal was insulating the connection.
    Marked with tape like you have done.
    Temp gauge did not work until i removed every last bit of the tape.

  6. #206

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    Thanks GR let me know what you see but no need to remove as Kendal just confirmed the passenger side unit on his M81 is for coolant and tied in to the fan sensor on the upper radiator hose. I used teflon tape on the threads.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  7. #207
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default hours of learning every day

    Took the mystery sender out for a peek.
    Is for oil.
    Oil was on sender.
    Oil was in cyl head hole and passage.
    No thread sealer.
    The wire color code near the sensor is faded. Need to peel back the plastic loom.

    Dunno about the tie in to a fan sensor. Have non-electric radiator fan driven by dual belts.
    Suppose the later EFI turbos have a different setup.
    Found in my 10# Ford 1985 Car/Truck Shop Manual, Emission Diagnosis, sec 3-50
    Drawing/desc of a fuel evap heater (EFE) switch that looks just like it. Base part 9F726.
    Another look alike probe-wise is a 84-90 screw in fan temp. control switch.

    Warning light versions have the larger sensor probe that goes in the block.
    Similar looking to Standard Motor Products TS36.
    Used on other Ford products.
    One site listed warning light switch closes at 250°-260°F.
    Gauge versions have a smaller sensor probe.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    Took the mystery sender out for a peek.
    Is for oil.
    Oil was on sender.
    Oil was in cyl head hole and passage.
    No thread sealer.
    The wire color code near the sensor is faded. Need to peel back the plastic loom.

    Dunno about the tie in to a fan sensor. Have non-electric radiator fan driven by dual belts.
    Suppose the later EFI turbos have a different setup.
    Found in my 10# Ford 1985 Car/Truck Shop Manual, Emission Diagnosis, sec 3-50
    Drawing/desc of a fuel evap heater (EFE) switch that looks just like it. Base part 9F726.
    Another look alike probe-wise is a 84-90 screw in fan temp. control switch.

    Warning light versions have the larger sensor probe that goes in the block.
    Similar looking to Standard Motor Products TS36.
    Used on other Ford products.
    One site listed warning light switch closes at 250°-260°F.
    Gauge versions have a smaller sensor probe.
    OK very interesting thank you GR!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  9. #209

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    Well it's a long time coming (I've owned since 1993!) but the M81 roared to life again on Saturday after the rebuild! Best of all NO SMOKE so the burned valve and out of tune carb are confirmed as the root cause. The rebuild of each have set this car straight so I can get it back on the road in the next month or so. I still have to figure out a few vacuum lines, reroute my new braided turbo oil feed line, pressure test the rad, find NOS upper rad hose and factory clamps and a few other small odds and ends but the last 5% is all that's left to do. Oh yeah, refinish the wheels and get some new tires on and a brake refresh...
    All the engine service items were replaced with new NOS where possible and others with aftermarket or cleaned/refurbished. This was a very challenging job and if I have any advice for some future masochist that wants to work on their carb turbo and keep it stock would be to pull the whole engine from the bay. I'd just like to thank all the really great people here that have helped push me along and provided great advice!

    Video


    Happy New Year!

    Cleaning up some bits for final install...



    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-22-2018 at 02:27 PM. Reason: added video
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  10. #210
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    82GTforME's Avatar
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    I love it! Congratulation! TLC and drive go so far on projects like these! Glad you stuck with it! Driving it will be so cool!
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) GT T-Top:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...um-Blue-Bomber!

  11. #211

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    Thanks I can't wait to actually take it for a real drive and a few local shows even though it's very far from any show queen! Interior and under hood are acceptable now given the age and time off the road. I can just hear the comments now..."is that a Monza?"!

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    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-03-2018 at 01:01 AM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  12. #212
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Cool man. Way to go!

    Please keep checking the primary catalyst, and the no2 branch of the iron exhaust header. gregpro50 and I think it might be cracked at the 12 figure date casting sun as discussed below.

    If not, just keep an eye out for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    From m81mclaren's M81 McLaren

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...5-years!/page7




    Oh dearo dearie dearie dearie me. That's just an awful design if the primary cataylst bricks out. Starting 50th stat California 79 Mustang, and then All 1980 and 1981 got the primary catalyst, including the Candian Cobra Turbos.

    I wonder if'n he knows to check status of the added 3 way cat?

    Thanks gregpro50


    PS, doesn't No 2 branch at the sun date code look cracked like the first 79 Mustang Carb turbo picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by gregpro50 View Post
    I do believe it does when I zoom in on it. I've never seen one that wasn't cracked.

  13. #213

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    Great work! Amazing car.

  14. #214

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    Thank you Jlehma13! Xctasy/Greg thx for the tip I'll get a closeup on that second port of the manifold and confirm if there's a crack. I don't recall seeing a crack on that after I took it off as I was giving it a cleaning. The precat just off the mani is no longer in action and I will be installing a new 50 state cat in the stock primary location by the transmission as there is nothing there now. If I was to hot rod this thing that mani and downpipe design is not optimal plus weighs a ton and I would bin it for a nice header. Actually a turbo efi motor would sit nicely in there!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  15. #215

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    Here is my mani and I don't see a crack...yet! We'll see if a few heat cycles changes that.

    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-04-2018 at 09:08 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  16. #216

  17. #217

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    Added video to my 1/2/18 post #209 of startup after head rebuild. Next up is to reroute my braided oil turbo feed line, identify and install all remaining vacuum lines, repaint/install rad mounts & fluid, locate NOS upper rad hoses/clamps, and shift my distributor wheel @ timing belt. Getting very close to making it driveable again!

    Question for you all, my 4sp trans has a loose feel to it @ the shifter and I read somewhere a while ago there is a plastic bushing that is a common failure. Does anyone have a correct part #? I found these but not sure if either is the correct one for this fix:


    Thanks
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-22-2018 at 03:59 PM. Reason: fixed link to video
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  18. #218
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Yup. Bottom one.

    I gotta say, without further checking, I think that is the right SR4 bushing for the early Borg Warner T5 based gearboxes. From 1974 to 1980, this was the SR4 replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    .......FoMoCo # D4ZZ7K453B for RAD / SR4 . Jeep and Ford used it. ~5/8" long for a 7mm shaft (~0.276" dia) - see it in my other listings (D4ZZ7K453B)

    ...
    Top is the FOG 4 speed with is wonderfuly badly engineered "come off in your hand" upper shifter bushing.


    Code 6 transmission for the A code, T buck M81 used the 2.3Turbo Borg Warner SR-4 4-sp manual.

    The other option was the 5 speed Turbo transmission, Code 5 2.3Turbo Tremec 140VS 5-sp manual overdrive, a late model year option. Not the same.

  19. #219

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    Thanks for confirming the bushing!

    New question! I had to rotate my oil feed fitting at the turbo housing to reroute my braided feed line. It is now in the right place facing the fender but is no longer bottomed/tight. There originally was some kind of red sealant/locktite used here;


    what should I use to seal and lock this position now? Teflon tape would probably not hold up here, so I am thinking the high temp sealant I have (pematex white good to 450degrees) but I'm not sure it's strong enough to both seal and lock it into position or if it will hold up to turbo temps. Should I use a copper crush washer to try and lock it down in the new position along with sealant? Red thread locker instead? Close to my first road test so appreciate your input.
    thx, M81
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 02-11-2018 at 02:27 AM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  20. #220

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    Well after clocking/rerouting the turbo oil feed line and hooking back up the radiator I'm very bummed to report that I have white smoke after warmup. At least it's not blueish white smoke confirming the new valve and head rebuild was needed. I have great oil pressure and water temps. We have been very careful about putting this back together and I'm at a loss to where to go from here. I had the head checked for cracks and rebuilt by an experienced engine builder. So now I'm thinking it could be a block issue, something to do with the water cooler line to the turbo, something missed in the head check that opens up with warm temps, or some other line routing issue. We put it away to take some time to think. Open to ideas or suggestions on ideas how coolant would be getting back into the combustion process with a fresh head gasket.

    I'll pull the plugs and check again and maybe try a radiator head gasket fluid check device. I'm also going to pull the water lines from the turbo and see if that makes any difference as previously way back when someone mentioned that the turbo manifold unit could not seal properly and leak. I don't look forward to tearing this completely down again and have thoughts of an SVO 2.3T or V8 swap if I am in there! Obviously I would prefer to keep it all original but I'm fantasizing how fast this could be with another setup!

    Anyways, other items I need some help on are identifying a few missing vacuum lines/hoses. My M81 is not technically a CA car given that the BAR sticker shows Federal Smog standard vs. CA standard even though it was sold new here. So I'll try and follow the 49 state diagrams but for A/C car. Please let me know if you can help me figure out where these go...

    Driver Side
    This is a a hexagon tree off the intake manifold below the carb. I have a 2 ports missing- one on the bottom (the smaller one circled) and one larger one pointing towards the DS fender.

    On this same hexegon tree backside pointing towards the block is a tee with 2 red plastic lines- one is connected eventually back to the passenger side firewall tree and the other goes nowhere. Does red designate a temperature value?





    This one is next to the idle screw on the carb.


    One is the metal pipe that connects to the intake manifold that then has a rubber line (says "gas" on it) that is now broken.

    Should this go to the port just right of the idle screw? The second one on the flying saucer I believe runs up to an open port on the air cleaner and should also tee into another line nearby at least according to other pictures I have seen. Mine was never connected. Can anyone ID this flying saucer thingy and its function?


    This one was broken when I removed it. the other lines say distributor vacuum and also has a "clear" small plastic line further down teeing into it. My distributor line is already in place with what I believe was correctly tagged.


    Pass Side
    Smog diverter line plugged- where should this go?


    This is on the exhaust side just above the smog equipment, it's a vacuum line that should have two red(?) or Orange (?) lines coming out. Not sure where they need to connect to but one is missing and one was never connected to anything.


    Since I took so long getting this back together, some of the labels fell off and I lost a chunk of pics/videos when I dropped my iPhone into the ocean! Thanks for any tips, vacuum routing help (or helpful pics!). I am studying vacuum diagrams and trying to ID components per another post but have a ways to go.
    M81
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 02-27-2018 at 07:49 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  21. #221

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    Your smoking problem and the build up on the valves is because the turbo needs to be rebuilt. The carbon seals on the front of the turbo shaft are the Achilles heel for these motors. If they fail once the engine warms up it pumps oil right into the intake.
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
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  22. #222

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    Thanks for the response Greg. My smoke is now pure white and the turbo was replaced to try and resolve the previous smoking problem (heavy plumes of blueish/white smoke) just prior to my purchase. While I had the turbo out it spun freely and was nice and tight. Would oil from the turbo seal still burn white? It evaporates very quickly now whereas before it hung around.

    Here is a video if it helps...
    https://youtu.be/71HSPPMAJDk

    Thx, M81
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 02-27-2018 at 09:10 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  23. #223
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    Usually white is water, blue is oil and black is fuel.

    I will look at my car tomorrow when I get home from work and see if I can help. Most of my vacuum lines were plugged at some point.

    Kendal
    Kendal

  24. #224

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    Burning a little oil is blue but burning a large volume is white. My car did the same thing and the intake and valves looked the same. A carbon seal on the turbo fixed it. These turbos are easy to rebuild. Basically a t3 with a different compressor housing that the seal presses into. When they leak it's the #2 cyl that eats the oil too. You'll see why once it's apart. I'm telling you. It's that seal. Been there done that more than once.
    '79 Indy pace car T-top
    '81 Cobra
    '81 Cobra T-top
    '82 Mustang GT T-top
    '87 Corvette
    '10 Mustang GT Convertible
    '17 F250
    '17 Landrover Discovery Sport

  25. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpro50 View Post
    Burning a little oil is blue but burning a large volume is white. My car did the same thing and the intake and valves looked the same. A carbon seal on the turbo fixed it. These turbos are easy to rebuild. Basically a t3 with a different compressor housing that the seal presses into. When they leak it's the #2 cyl that eats the oil too. You'll see why once it's apart. I'm telling you. It's that seal. Been there done that more than once.
    video link up...thanks Greg I wished I had put that seal in when I had this apart! I assumed everything was fresh and could rule an issue like you describe out. Argh!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

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