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  1. #301

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    Thanks I won’t run this hard until I get my wideband installed and can get a feel for how the mixture is working. I’ll keep it conservative!


    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Base timing will be critical to set low if you do not know advance vs boost. As boost increases timing advance has to be reduced to avoid detonation on any boosted motor. Just thought I’d mention it before something happens and you are back to head gasket....

    Love this car, so cool. Good luck getting it fixed!!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  2. #302

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    Double-post again...must be a mobile thing!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-04-2018 at 11:12 AM. Reason: doble-post
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  3. #303
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    The dual mode module controls boost timing retard.
    2.3 carb turbo apps have a pressure sensor assy on the ds fender.
    Sensor assy connects to the ICM module via the 3 wire connector. The 2nd mode.
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    Last edited by gr79; 10-04-2018 at 12:29 PM.

  4. #304

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    [QUOTE=gr79;1892296]The dual mode module controls boost timing retard.
    2.3 carb turbo apps have a pressure sensor assy on the ds fender.
    Sensor assy connects to the ICM module via the 3 wire connector. The 2nd mode.

    GR I can't thank you enough. My ICM and distributor are in (both have a lifetime warranty and were purchased locally for that reason) so may tackle today after work or tomorrow morning now that you have answered all the needed questions with detail and printed instructions! I hope some day someone else going through these challenges will benefit from this back and forth on this forum!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  5. #305

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    You have a pretty cool and rare car there, I remember having a model of one of those when I was young, I wish I still had it.
    1986 ACS McLaren Capri
    1982 Mustang GT

  6. #306
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Good deal.
    Feel the same way.
    Pass on some sort of rare and hopefully accurate info, thoughts, experience, out there for all.
    Don't wish to see anyone V8 a carb turbo car due to lack of parts or knowledge.
    Finding out shops are of no real help nor interested anymore with specific repairs to these cars.
    Pretty much on our own.
    Sometimes 'areas' need to be 'gutted' to straighten them out, providing can be restored to proper function.
    Patches, repairs can work or are usually temp for unknown time and result.
    Like working on a house. Chance to change or preserve as is with available and correct fresh replacement items.
    Nothing lost replacing these parts. Not rare, not generic, and should be correct for app as from factory.
    Really have no choice other than NOS. These parts are not imported fake or lame copies of a real part.
    One instance were reasonable cost can result in huge outcome. Or a step closer to one.

    Am enjoying helping work with you on your special car. Not many chances to do one like that. And from long distance.
    Times when high cost of internet pays for itself.

  7. #307

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    DP again!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-06-2018 at 11:46 AM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  8. #308

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    GR my parts are in and decided to go ahead and order the dual vacuum distributor 30-2470 in case there are subtle differences to the advance module inside. I suspect McLaren modified things here (removing second vacuum port as confirmed by Kendal on his white M81) to help cope with the adjustable boost knob. Iím guessing with some incorrect vacuum routing over time and issues with the advance mechanism thatís what helped create a headgasket issue. Iíll keep the boost dialed back and be gentle on the throttle until I know Iíve got the vacuum, carb, dizzy and tune all working in concert with good A/F ratios throughout the RPMís and loading.

    Last night I put back together and cleaned the connections on my original distributor, installed the new ICM, and am midway through fuel pump install. You were right that steel pump cover was super fun to get off; Ford could have made a shape thatís little easier to get off! Iím off to get a flare wrench for the metal fuel supply line as I was starting to strip it using my box wrench. After that Iíll cross fingers and see if it will start again but may wait for a drive drive until Wednesday when I drop in the new distributor and I know all of the ignition parts are good.

    On the VW side of my hobby I share my remote support services to others sharing tips on how the keep a Callaway Turbo Mk1 Rabbit GTI on the road. I also hit the local junkyard for a fellow FEPer who is back east with an LTD LX so I am paying it forward in similar ways!

    Have a great weekend all!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-06-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  9. #309

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    Of course I rounded the fuel line inlet line even when using the 1/2" flare wrench. We were able to get it off in a vice at the parts store but the fitting is now probably too buggered to reuse even though the parts guy said to just file the sides and send it. Now I need the part# and to source a for this pump to carb... nothing coming up in my searches. The pump end spec is 1/2 in. - 20 UNF so I it needs to be male one one and the other would be a slip on fuel line type. And of course I don't have a line flaring tool.
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/N23yaR]

    Thankfully it looks like the arm just rolls on a cam lobe rather than a pin type which apparently can fall off into the sump.


    One step forward...
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  10. #310
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    One way to do the fuel line:
    Measure total length of line. Bends, curves.
    Step forward to most any auto parts store.
    Pick up a PA/PAX-520 or PA/PAX-530 brake line. 5-7.00
    Last two numbers depend on how long you need: 520= 20" 530= 30"
    These are AGS Poly Armour brand steel brake lines, 5/16", 1/2- 20 nuts.
    Greenish in color. Easy to get nice bends, small radii by hand, pipe, paint can,bending tool, anything. Can be rebent.
    It's all i use now for brake lines. Easier to get than SS. Up here in the rust belt, regular steel is not the best option.
    Not steel silver color, but will work.
    If a good tubing bender is handy for regular steel lines, same thing. 5/16" brake line has 1/2"-20 nuts.
    Some stores only carry AGS PA, others only traditional steel, others both.

    Could slide the nut at the carb end of line out of the way hidden. A section of rubber hose will slip over the flare. Or:
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edd-824550/overview/

    https://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-...48_21814_90078
    https://agscompany.com/product/domes...ine-5-16-x-30/
    Last edited by gr79; 10-07-2018 at 12:38 AM.

  11. #311

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    You could weld corners back on the nut and file it back how it should be

  12. #312
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Same old deal as brake lines.
    Always spray penetrate oil on this stuff. Most important give it time to work.
    Nut seizes onto line over the years.
    Either nut rounds off or (if small brake line) twists the line.
    Pack a bit of grease or antisieze in there.
    When i do rear wheel cyl, i remove the cyl bolts, unclip and pull the line thru the backing plate, place wrench on nut
    Hold wrench, turn old cyl off the line with pipe wrench. Not the line off the cyl. Somehow saves the line nut and line.
    Fuel pump line is another story. Line wont twist so nut gives out.
    Read somehow certain open end wrenches and even flairs. can spread just enough to strip nuts.
    SAE tool on metric, Metric on SAE. Or some of my wore out tools.

  13. #313

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    Thanks guys just what I needed! I was going to try and reuse this line but the nut itself is now a little smushed out of round and I don't trust it. I'm assuming the convoluted bends are to keep any dripping fuel from going on the ignition parts so I'll buy the generic brake line and try and replicate. I tried the same path on my turbo feed line using a spring over the line to form the bends but kept kinking them so I went braided hose. I'll bet I could find an NOS piece if I could find the part number but can't come up with it so far so I think bending up one is the best alternative.

    ill be doing full set of brakes next so it's probably time to pick up a line bending tool. Thanks for the tip on getting the lines off the cylinders!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  14. #314
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default Stuff for brake projects

    Get one of these. I have the two red ones. The top one works the best.
    Bottom one is not needed. Bender pics are from other source. Tubing kinker? nah. Works fine too.
    Home Depot and others stock them.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Tu...-111/304505604
    Name:  brake line bending tools.jpg
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    Replaced all my Ranger's brake lines. (AGS PAX, fittings from AZone). Bends came out close to factory routing.
    Bend examples possible with PA/PAX. Could adjust bend without tool. Winter work- cold outside.
    Started bends little bit above nut to allow for nut to slide up the line a little.
    Name:  brake line replace rt ft to ibeam.jpg
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    http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/...e-bending.html
    Last edited by gr79; 10-07-2018 at 05:28 PM.

  15. #315
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Name:  brake line replace ds rear (5).jpg
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  16. #316

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    Thanks GR you are spot on. I picked up a PA-530 today and will see if I can replicate the original bends. That brake job and bleed looks fun!
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-08-2018 at 08:59 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  17. #317
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Cool.
    That stuff can be bent using most anything round as the radius template.
    Some use sockets in a vice, etc.
    Doing 90s- find something w/ same radius and use that.
    When i did mine, measured distances, marked w/sharpie, lined up mark at the tool's '0' mark to start the bend.
    Sharpie works good and can be removed with rubbing alcohol.

  18. #318
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    The home made setup works great. One person bleed. 12-20 pumps for rear lines. Quart of fluid is plenty.
    Learned how to do it efficiently at home. Work schedule, nearby shops booked up, dictated that.
    Saves a lot of money and time.
    Stuff like this can happen at any time on old high mile vehicles. Lucky always made it home.

    This was that day's project. DS rear line. Replaced with SS line on that one.
    Cost 40.00 custom made by Inline Tube, who are local.
    Years later found out about AGS PA. Did the rest of the truck's lines for 50.00 or so.
    I cut the line at the nut with hd snips, then used a 6pt socket on the nut. 10 minutes, whole line was off. No strip.

    Name:  brake line replace ds rear (8).jpg
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    Another- Ranger ps rear. Broke 30 miles from home, 1 am on freeway, downtown Detroit. Not a good area. Made it home fine.
    Something came loose and took out the wheel cyl. Make a screeching sound.
    This is when i read about unscrewing wheel cyl trick. Saves the line. Plenty of slack once line is removed from axle clips.
    Was actually able to pull the still connected cyl out over the wheel axle flange.

    Name:  brakes wheel cyl ps.jpg
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  19. #319

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    Great stuff GR thanks. My reman dual vac distributor 30-2470íarrived tonight but if feels a little crunchy. The reluctor wheel actually slightly touches the pickup in the module. This one may have snuck passed any QC in Mexico so Iím going to order another and return this one. Bummer means another wait but want to do this right and all at one rather than piecemeal.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-11-2018 at 02:40 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  20. #320

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    The second 30-2470 dual vacuum distributor arrived overnight. I donít get it, when I rotate this one feels even chunkier than the other one. The reman single I bought spins nicely without that chunking inside or touching of the reluctor wheel. I guess itís time to just run one of the duals and see what happens but I donít feel great about it.

    From what I read online (!) the big end port adjusts the advance under vacuum then the second port on the pot pulls out up to 10 more degrees under boost. Is that correct? I wonder why the ďMcLarenĒ setup would eliminate the second port from use? Maybe Iíd had something to do with the adjustable boost controller in the cabin. Iím getting ahead of myself but Iíd like to understand better how this functions and do some careful tuning once I get it reliably running.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 10-12-2018 at 01:08 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  21. #321
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    There should be an air gap between armature and magnet. Surly not supposed to contact each other.
    No exact info just guesses say .015-.025. Say about thickness of matchbook cover. Adj not possible.

    Dual vac adv cans were used mostly for emissions tuning by retarding ignition timing.
    On carb turbo apps, the vac switches on fender bracket do this.
    Said to be more gradual, allowing several stages of retard under boost, rather than the one-shot deal of the dual adv.
    In '80 did Ford used one basic style of vac adv on all cars and added tube connection as needed?

    Of course, if any McLaren workers involved could share the details about this stuff would be a lot of help.
    One way to tell if McLaren modded the dist (advance curve) is to have dist. checked out at a speed shop on a machine.
    Then have stock rebuilds checked and compare everything. Used to have a corner gas station that could do that.
    https://horsepowersports.com/distrib...ake-a-comeback

    Just like the carb, should not have to take a good reman and swap in parts from the old one so it will work like it should.
    The single and dual adv dist may be the same inside the cap- thinking either adv units will interchange.
    Hate to think rebuilders are switching out parts, say special calibrated mech advance springs for std, to make their rebuilds more generic.

    Could try out the new box. Maybe there is nothing wrong with the oem dist. Wont hurt the box.
    No way to know once both are swapped out at the same time. Just thinkin...

  22. #322

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    Thanks GR. I returned one of the distributors and will drop in the other as soon as I can get the fuel pump back on. I bent up the new hard line for that but am stuck trying to get the new fuel pump installed. It does not want to drop in and line up properly with the bolt holes but will try again after dinner.

    Meanwhile back in time... my engine was here once!




    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    There should be an air gap between armature and magnet. Surly not supposed to contact each other.
    No exact info just guesses say .015-.025. Say about thickness of matchbook cover. Adj not possible.

    Dual vac adv cans were used mostly for emissions tuning by retarding ignition timing.
    On carb turbo apps, the vac switches on fender bracket do this.
    Said to be more gradual, allowing several stages of retard under boost, rather than the one-shot deal of the dual adv.
    In '80 did Ford used one basic style of vac adv on all cars and added tube connection as needed?

    Of course, if any McLaren workers involved could share the details about this stuff would be a lot of help.
    One way to tell if McLaren modded the dist (advance curve) is to have dist. checked out at a speed shop on a machine.
    Then have stock rebuilds checked and compare everything. Used to have a corner gas station that could do that.
    https://horsepowersports.com/distrib...ake-a-comeback

    Just like the carb, should not have to take a good reman and swap in parts from the old one so it will work like it should.
    The single and dual adv dist may be the same inside the cap- thinking either adv units will interchange.
    Hate to think rebuilders are switching out parts, say special calibrated mech advance springs for std, to make their rebuilds more generic.

    Could try out the new box. Maybe there is nothing wrong with the oem dist. Wont hurt the box.
    No way to know once both are swapped out at the same time. Just thinkin...
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  23. #323

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    Finally was able to get the fuel pump installed (waiting to install steel protector plate once confirmed no leaks are present). Had some trouble getting the distributor in as well as I could not get it to seat down the last 1/2” onto the oil pump drive. I manually adjusted the drive with a deep socket multiple times but still no go. I rotated the crank slightly back and forth but that didn’t do anything but did confirm the rotor was turning and engaged on the gear. I measured everything against my original dizzy and was spot on. Had to phone Mike who said to just keep rotating the crank manually until the dizzy sets fully which of course it did. Haynes manual made no such mention so I have learned several new things that will help me down the road. The new coil and ICM are also in but it’s too late so have to wait until Thurday to pull it out of the garage where I can watch for fuel leaks and have room to move a fire extinguisher around worst case. New goal is Thursday final check and drive, Friday BAR smog test and clean it up for Goodguys show Nov 10th!
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  24. #324

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    No fuel leaks and she started for about 20 seconds then died. I could not get it to restart and eventually killed the battery. Lots of fuel getting to the clear filter.

    I did find this wire that connects below (but not directlt to the ICM) with a break chafing about so I cut, soldered and shrink-wrapped. Charging the battery and will try and fire again in about an hour and report back. My OG distributor spins very poorly in my hands so was likely not helping at all with clean running.



    EDIT! I just pulled the #1 plug wire and grounded the plug and am getting spark while cranking. Added fuel to float bowl and carb inlets. It cranks great but will not fire or even give me a cough/sputter. So I have air, spark and fuel but no fire. I swapped to the extra spare ICM I bought and same result. My new coil felt pretty warm to the touch with all the cranking as well but I'm told this is normal. Any thoughts on where to go from here? I am suspecting the wiring from the car to the distributor but that's a total guess at this point.

    Installed the new shift bushing and can confirm that the my old one was not bad at all. Replacement Jeep J8127490 was exact match and only about $5 shipped. Should there be trans fluid in this shifter area; looks dry at the bottom to me...



    My AEM wideband is wired up and ready to help with proper tuning at idle and under load and confirm the vacuum advance functions as it should to keep detonation at bay (especially as I crank up the boost knob!)


    Installed the OG am/fm tape deck (not designed to go in/out easily for sure!) but am missing the proper face cover to secure it to the dash and cleaned up/soldered the wiring. So instead I wired in this Kenwood KRC-2000 I had collecting dust so at least I will have some tunes. There are no rear speakers and the tiny dash speakers sound terrible so replacements go on the list after brakes.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 11-27-2018 at 09:04 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  25. #325
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Or two bucks unshipped.

    But its the same part


    https://www.trailswestonline.com/cro...g-p-18637.html


    "$1.99

    Fits: All Jeeps with SR4 Manual Transmission."

    Your gearbox is an SR4 4 speed, supplied to Jeep and AMC from 1974 to 1983.

    According to http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...hifter-bushing

    Ford uses a bewildering number of three and somtimes hyphened four letter codes to describe the transmission.

    Like

    FOG,
    ET78,
    RAD,
    RAD-Y,
    RUG,
    RTS,
    HEH,
    RAN,
    RAP

    yadda yadda yadda.

    The door post code transmission and axle code for each engine is well defined, and FoxChassis has all the transmission tag info partly mapped out based on engine code and the turbo option code.

    Tr - 6 = manual Borg Warner (RAD) 4-speed transmission

    IIRC rightly:-

    RAD can be either SROD or SR4.
    RAN is T5 normally.
    RAP is the somewhat rare U shift 5 speed option for late 80-about 85 mostly non turbo 2.3's, which also uses the stock 4speed FOG ET78 and 5 speed XR4Ti Merkur/ Ford Sierra bushing.

    Each of the RAD coded gearboxes have SROD or SR4 shifter bushings depending on the actual gearbox used.


    Due to Fords work in making the Borg Warner SR4 happen , the D4ZZ7K453B RAD SR4 bushing is also the Jeep Crown Shift Rod Bushing

    It has different call dimensions Length: 0.75" Width: 0.75" Height: 0.50" and two alterante part numbers 8127490, J8127490

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