T-top Install. Need help/info with what parts i need.

[gregpro50]

Let me try to explain this one more time. You are way over-complicating this and spending too much time and energy doing so only to confuse people.

What you are doing is going through schematics and assuming that just because something shows a different part number that it won't interchange within the years. Such as saying that if an '85 shows a different part number than an '82 then it won't work. This is not (necessarily) true. You do however bring up some valid information with the trim differences throughout the years.

Example: Someone who converts a '82 Mustang will be able to use all parts from a donor '85 Mustang without #1, having to buy ANY NOS parts, and #2 having to do ANY paint and body work to the vehicle. Not the $3000 number that you claim.

[gregpro50]

on a 90 Mustang GT, but back in early 1990 when it was done we used the readily available kits E7ZZ 61502B98-A/B which provided a cutting template for the roof (very important as the hole has to be exact or the glass will bind or rattle/leak).

This is another statement which again makes me question your claim that you have even done the conversion in the first place.

The opening you cut into the roof is what the FRAME sets into. It has absolutely nothing to do with the spacing of the glass. The T-top FRAME is what determines the position of the glass.

I have done several conversions and even I am completely confused by your explanation of the process.

[85GTTops]

This is another statement which again makes me question your claim that you have even done the conversion in the first place.

The opening you cut into the roof is what the FRAME sets into. It has absolutely nothing to do with the spacing of the glass. The T-top FRAME is what determines the position of the glass.

I have done several conversions and even I am completely confused by your explanation of the process.

The t-top frame "bolts" to the roof. The t-top frame is an "I". With any frame shaped like an "I", the outer edges are weak and the center is strong. When you assemble the t-top frame to the car frame using a hole that's too large, the t-frame gets pulled too far from the edge of the t-top glass, causing a poor, leaky seal and an opportunity for rattles.

When the hole is cut too small, the t-top frame is too close to the t-top glass. When temps hit 100+ on the inside of the car, the glass gets pinched towards the t-top frame. Too much pinch and you could wind up with a lap full of glass. This was a real problem on early 80's Camaros and Firebirds. They simply cut the frame too small during the conversions and cars were being recalled. Ford got it right and spaced it with just enough wiggle room without rattling and leaking (and even then they rattle and leak, as we all know).

When the hole is cut crooked, it gets even worse. Plus the glass doesn't sit right at any angle. Cut the hole just like Ford did and you've got very little to worry about. The fastest and easiest way is to use the donor roof as a template.

I also recommend letting a body shop with the right tools do the work, or at least let them cut the hole. They have the right circular saws to produce a nice smooth, leak-free hole, something most DIY guys don't have nor want to pay for.

[gregpro50]

The t-top frame "bolts" to the roof. The t-top frame is an "I". With any frame shaped like an "I", the outer edges are weak and the center is strong. When you assemble the t-top frame to the car frame using a hole that's too large, the t-frame gets pulled too far from the edge of the t-top glass, causing a poor, leaky seal and an opportunity for rattles.

Wrong. The frame rivets to the roof and the inner bracing structure. You certainly do not want to try to "bolt" it. The T-top frame actually takes the place of the inner bracing structure over the doors. The rivets would pull out before that T-top frame would bend. These cars can get rattles and such but that is where subframe connectors help. The roof opening does not have to be cut as exact as you say. The frame gives plenty of play roof to attach to the inner structure. I can go take a picture of a factory T-top installation to prove it. The factory actually leaves room for normal expansion and contraction from changing temperatures.

I really get the impression from you that you are one of these people that does the research regarding the parts involved and then you drop your car off at a body shop to have it done. I can see you understand the parts end of it but still have no clue as to the application end.

[4wheeldevil]

so what i am gathering from your argument/disscussion is that i should buy a complete donor, or pull parts from a donor. let me think about this for a second..........................
........................
tomato tomato
having a complete donor is great in a perfect world but thats not always possible
and if i ever do this i am going to cut the roof off from the a,b, and c pillars and take the complete doors off from the hinges and have at it.
keep it up you two are putting up some good info and by the time you are done we expect to have a complete manual on how to swap in a t top. otherwise you will get a failing grade and be booted from fep

[gregpro50]

LOL. Do what you want. It is actually not as complicated as it may seem.

[4wheeldevil]

complicated or not i aint cutting anything till i know i have every part
you know we have heard alot from you two and i have found it to be very interesting
i was not so sure on whether or not i would want to do something like this until now.
after i install my v8 this will be the next project.
but what about the op where is he in this, posted and is now sitting back watching the fire works.



p.s. part numbers are only numbers if there are no pics

[Ken P]

I'll throw in my $0.02 on this one. I always wanted a T-top SVO for my collection. I had considered converting one of mine but then figured I'd rather go for an original Cars & Concepts conversion ( factory HAHA ) example. The previous owner also had already put in a full cage and through the floor subframes.

No mess, no worries about rattles. There are plenty of T-top cars for sale. Why not just buy one already finished?





While it needs work to get it running the T-tops are already there. With what I saved on parts needed to do the conversion I came out ahead in the purchase price. Just something to consider.

[4wheeldevil]

how much do you guys expect there to be in parts. at the junkyards down here i would be well under 500. they sell it quick or crush it. for me i got an 86 and i dont want another one. i can only drive one at a time. half the fun is building to some.

[gt88]

Here's a question- will a donor setup from a hatch work for a coupe? Mr. parts number guy didn't specify a supplemental for coupes, and I'm still struggling with the desire to ttop my coupe.
And, stop argueing, or I'll pull this forum over and tan all your hides!! D@mn kids!!

OK, just kidding, I've actually got my popcorn and drink ready for the next round, so let's get back to rumbling!!

[gt88]

Oh, and any thoughts on using a bonding adhesive in conjunction with the rivets for the framework? Possibly eliminate some mystery squeaks and rattles?

And lastly, Gregpro50, I challenge you to provide those factory install pictures, to add to your popularity on this site...

[1982 niGhTmare]

I cannot see why it wouldn't work -- but my opinion is worthless since I cannot go and back it up with hard evidence.

However, I cannot see why it won't work if you cut your Coupes roof and put the t-top frame in, as the roof skin itself won't transfer over. As long as the inner structure of the Coupe's roof allows the t-top frame to be riveted to it, why not? I cannot see them having two separate t-top setups, one for hatches and one for coupes.

I want a Reef Blue Coupe with t-tops, even though I'd prefer a sunroof so it matches my 93 -- but Ford didn't send any 93's out for conversions -- so it may be a future project years down the road. The knowledge would be good to have!


Psst, pass the popcorn

[wman24]

Bonding agent couldnt hurt, but there is a alot of rivets and its hard to belive squeaks come from them. The t top frame is made up of 5 or so piece spot welded together. I've seen the spot welds break but this can't be seen until frame is removed from car.

[gt88]

The squeak and rattle issues were just hearsay from other ttop owners... just thought I would head off a possible problem, and I figured that it might add a hair of ridgidity to the body, after adding the ttop frame. Visually, the inner support areas are the same, but I haven't busted out the tape measure and vernier calipers.

And, I'v mentioned before, the roof on my coupe sure looks like some of the snapshots of the moon's surface- and I can only imagine the agony of trying to smooth and sand that panel- it's about as ridgid as a tarp. Adding the ttop would save grief, and run up the cool factor!!

Any other input from gregpro or mr. parts list? Come on, give it up!!

[wman24]

I think squeaks etc are caused by chassis twisting on center of t top frame. Twisting would cause inerior parts too loosen over time and glass tops probably reflect any other noise. It seems to me that t top cars get alot of weird cracks on floor board, I attribute this too extra stress put on floor as cars twist on center. I could be way off on this, just my observation.

[gt88]

That's what I've been suspecting, as well- if I go forward, I'm dreaming of a reinforcement job included in the package.