Help!! (AGAIN!))

[fox5pointohh]

Hey guys,
I'm back and in need of more of your excellent advice.
The other day I hopped into my car (cfi/aod anny) to take a trip to the local auto parts store. I was immediately surprised when the car wouldnt shift at its normal points. It hesitated to shift until about 3,200 rpm then hit second HARD. Its the same going from 2nd to 3rd. There is also slight slippage when accelerating in 2nd from about 35-45 mph. Only when I'm hard on the gas will the car shift smoothly like it should. Also the car refuses to downshift when Im accelerating out of a turn or something. I thought the problem could be low fluid, as I had a similar problem with another car of mine that leaked trans fluid like crazy, but fluid level is where it should be. I can't imagine the trans would be toast cuz the car's only got 51,000 on it and I don't beat on it. Another thing I find odd is that this problem came outta the blue- the day before the car was driving perfectly with no problems to speak of!! I really hope I'm not facing a rebuild or replcement cuz I just don't have the money right now. As always any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Olivertwisted]

Check to make sure the TV cable/rod is still hooked up. I had the bushing break in the rod,causing it to come off the carb/ throttle body in my 84 f150, and cause similar issues.

[denshem]

[QUOTE=Olivertwisted;876792]Check to make sure the TV cable/rod is still hooked up. I had the bushing break in the rod,causing it to come off the carb/ throttle body in my 84 f150, and cause similar issues.[/Q

Seems like text book TV cable

[smokinn85]

, but fluid level is where it should be. I can't imagine the trans would be toast cuz the car's only got 51,000 on it and I don't beat on it. Another thing I find odd is that this problem came outta the blue- the day before the car was driving perfectly with no problems to speak of!! I really hope I'm not facing a rebuild or replcement cuz I just don't have the money right now. As always any help would be greatly appreciated.

Does the fluid smell burned? Is it dark? Are you sure the car only has 51k (if you are not the original owner, I would say that it is probably 151k or even 251k)?

Even if it is just a cable as stated above, my suggestion to you would be, if the tranny isn't leaking, take it to a tranny shop and pay the $120-$150 to have the tranny flushed and possibly pay the extra money to have the filter replaced as well. Draining the fluid yourself will not get the 5-7 quarts out of the torque converter. You would just be mixing clean fluid with burned.

[fox5pointohh]

The tv cable/ rod is connected to the tb. The tranny fluid is dark though.

[fox5pointohh]

Oh and the car is definately 51k I carfaxed it

[theemustangman]

take it to a tranny shop and pay the $120-$150 to have the tranny flushed and possibly pay the extra money to have the filter replaced as well.

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER Flush the trans that is a sure fire way to destroy the transmission, because when they do that it puts metal shavings etc where they should not be and will destroy a trans within mins to weeks later, i don't care what anybody else says, i have seen plenty of trans failures after flushing them, ask any mechanic if they would do it to there own car they will tell you absolutely not, sure you may not get the fluid out of the converter but you can change the fluid again couple k miles after to insure that the fluid from the converter gets mixed with the new fluid then re drain the trans and re-fill
two or even three fluid changes is still cheaper than a rebuild or replacement after the flushing destroys the trans

[smokinn85]

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER Flush the trans that is a sure fire way to destroy the transmission,

So, if you have metal shavings in your tranny fluid, they only circulate in the valve body during a flush? The pump doesn't circulate the fluid (and shavings if they exist in the fluid) throughout the tranny during operation? As for never flushing your tranny, I have two vehicles sitting in my garage right now that was flushed over 4 months ago and they work flawlessly. There is some truth in what you said, but the real truth is this...you can't wait until your vehicles tranny is slipping or shifting erractically, drive it for another two months and then take it to a repair shop hoping that they can work a miracle. Preventative maintenance goes a long way.

[theemustangman]

I have two vehicles sitting in my garage right now that was flushed over 4 months ago and they work flawlessly. There is some truth in what you said, but the real truth is this...you can't wait until your vehicles tranny is slipping or shifting erractically, drive it for another two months and then take it to a repair shop hoping that they can work a miracle. Preventative maintenance goes a long way.

Preventative is the KEY word here, he may not know the maintenance history and it could possibly destroy his trans if the clutches have put a bunch of material into the trans, it would be safer to change the fluid twice than risk possible catastrophic failure when he can't afford it
edit: also if it is already slipping, no amount of flushing or changing fluid will repair the damage but, changing the fluid will get the material out, along with changing the fliter and extend the life for a while.

[fox5pointohh]

So what do think the final verdict is guys?? If worst comes to worst I have a buddy who can throw in another aod for around $500, but my car would be down about a week if I went that route. I know Lucas makes an additive that's supposed to stop trans slippage and hard shifts like I described but I doubt that would help

[smokinn85]

Oh and the car is definately 51k I carfaxed it

Carfax is not as reliable as most people think. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...fax_facts.htmlNot only that, the mileage is reported by the owner during sales and registration. Our cars only has a 5-digit odometer, so it is easy for someone to say, "the odometer says 51k miles", Heck, my odometer is reading 44k miles right now, but how many times has it rolled over? I could tell a buyer or the DMV that odometer reading, but I know for sure that my car has over 44k miles.

[smokinn85]

Preventative is the KEY word here, he may not know the maintenance history and it could possibly destroy his trans if the clutches have put a bunch of material into the trans, it would be safer to change the fluid twice than risk possible catastrophic failure when he can't afford it
edit: also if it is already slipping, no amount of flushing or changing fluid will repair the damage but, changing the fluid will get the material out, along with changing the fliter and extend the life for a while.

Very true.

[smokinn85]

So what do think the final verdict is guys?? If worst comes to worst I have a buddy who can throw in another aod for around $500, but my car would be down about a week if I went that route. I know Lucas makes an additive that's supposed to stop trans slippage and hard shifts like I described but I doubt that would help

I would call around. You may be able to have it rebuilt for that much. At least then it would have some sort of warranty from the shop.

[denshem]

Never flush? The fluid is traveling the same route and same direction as when its running .

[theemustangman]

Never flush? The fluid is traveling the same route and same direction as when its running .

Not true they flush it the opposite way
here is a quote from another website

What Is An Engine Or Transmission Flush?
Flushing is the high pressure forcing of fluid back against the normal flow of the fluid. In other words if the normal flow is left to right, the flush would force the fluid right to left. This is accomplished by connecting a machine that will force special solvents back through the engine and transmission. The idea is that by forcing cleaning solvents backwards through the system, it will get all the junk and garbage that has formed over time and "flush" it out of the system. In theory this may be sound, but in actual practice, it's dangerous

The Dangers Of Flushing...
Flush machines do what they say; they force high pressure cleaning solvents back through the engine and transmission and clean out some of the accumulated junk that has formed. Now engines have small passages and galleries through which oil or automatic transmission fluid flow and there are one-way valves that keep the fluids from backtracking for whatever reason. By using an aggressive cleaning procedure like flushing, large chunks of accumulated sludge are broken off and forced backwards through these galleries and valves and, more often than not, lodge tightly and block them. This cuts off the normal flow of the fluid and causes lack of lubrication in an engine and abnormal or no shifting in a transmission. The results are expensive repairs, or more often, engine or transmission replacement.

Who Recommends Flushing As Maintenance?
The shops that want to sell you the engine or transmission flush charge anywhere from $49.95 to $99.95, not including a new engine or transmission. Those are extra. And they state quite emphatically that it is recommended that it be done. But who actually recommends that it be done? I checked with GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Honda and several other new car manufacturers and not one recommended an engine or transmission flush as routine maintenance. In fact, they specifically don't recommend it at all!! The new car dealerships that do sell them use the implication that since they are the dealer that it must be the factory that recommends it. And if they do say the factory recommends it, they are flat out lying to you.

The only ones who do recommend flushing as a maintenance procedure are the companies that sell the flush machines and the shops that buy them. The flush machine manufacturers state quite clearly in their operating manuals not to use their machines on "high-mileage vehicles". That simple statement proves that flushing is not a safe procedure. It also absolves them of any responsibility of any damage that may occur due to the use of their equipment. This leaves the shop wholly responsible for anything that happens and the cost of correcting the damage that occurs

If you do get a flush, I recommend you do it when you can afford to replace the engine or transmission

quotes taken from http://autotechrepair.suite101.com

[theemustangman]

These were taken from the AMSOIL Site

Some people believe that all transmission filters are backflushed clean every time the vehicle is turned off. This is a major misconception. Three-quarters of all transmission filters today are not a simple screen, they are made of felt. A felt filter CANNOT be backflushed. Felt holds dirt particles within tiny pores in the felt. It will not wash out or flush out. If a felt filter becomes clogged it must be replaced. Clogged filters restrict fluid flow, which lowers pressure to clutches and bands. This can cause slippage and eventual burnout of the transmission.

There have been an increasing number of instances surfacing recently regarding transmission failures shortly after an evacuation service, without filter removal. At the time of a fluid evacuation service, there is no way to know the condition of the filter and how clogged it may be. The filters job is to collect and hold contaminants, (dirt, metal filings, friction particles, etc.), and prevent these particles from causing malfunction in such components as electronic force motors and solenoids. Today's transmissions are far more susceptible to malfunctions caused by fine dirt contamination. Without servicing the filter, there is no way to know if the filter is clean of debris or nearing capacity. If the filter is nearing capacity, transmission failure may not be far off. This is also a sign that there may be other internal problems in the transmission. Recognizing these warning signs could eliminate major service later.

Most of the transmission failures after an evacuation service have occurred primarily on relatively high mileage transmissions that have not been serviced in some time. One reason for this is that the sludge and dirt buildup within the transmission will not completely be removed during the service. When the new fluid (which has detergent properties) is placed in the transmission, over days and weeks, the internal components begin to wash the insides of the transmission.

This sludge does finally work loose and settles in the transmission filter, clogging it up even further than it may have been before service. In these extreme cases, where service has not been performed in some time, changing the filter may not completely fix the problem. Some mechanics recommend a second service a few weeks after the first, replacing the filter again, which may be partially clogged due to the cleaning process in the transmission.

[fox5pointohh]

Well I went to the local trans shop, turns out the culprit was the little plastic bushing that fits inside the kick down rod. The old one broke and fell off. The bad news is that the damage has been done and I still have no overdrive as a result. The trans guy says it may be a sticking valve or the accumulater(??) hopefully it won't be to hard on my wallet.

[theemustangman]

Well I went to the local trans shop, turns out the culprit was the little plastic bushing that fits inside the kick down rod. The old one broke and fell off. The bad news is that the damage has been done and I still have no overdrive as a result. The trans guy says it may be a sticking valve or the accumulater(??) hopefully it won't be to hard on my wallet.

Good Luck,
Aquire a good donor trans now and build the crap out of it shift kit and all that way when she does go you have a new one waiting!

[86TXSSP]

i have never had a problem with flushing a trans. I and several friends of mine do this very frequently. If my buddy trusts the tranny flush in his 05 2500 Turbo Diesel worked over to the rafters. This thing puts down 700 hp and 1200 flbs. It's a serious truck and we drive the hell out of it. Trips to vegas new orleans and so forth. Trans was stock and held up fine for 100k with frequent flushes done by the dodge dealership. He finally decided to upgrade the trans for a little more serious abuse and sent it out to suncoast. My 03 Lightning has had a few flushes and never a problem either. I guess it's just the luck of the draw.

[theemustangman]

I and several friends of mine do this very frequently

Trans was stock and held up fine for 100k with frequent flushes

My 03 Lightning has had a few flushes and never a problem either.

These are the key sentences to what you wrote, frequent service, will damn near stop all problems...., if you perform service to vehicles like you should then yes it may not hurt the trans, but to flush and not replace the filter is just not good sense IMHO,

PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE IS KEY
TO TRY AND FLUSH A TRANS THAT HAS NEVER HAD SERVICE IS A DEATH SENTENCE FOR THE TRANS

[86TXSSP]

well he scheduled his old 97 f 150 with 297K mi, and 1 trans fluid change (not flush)for wednesday. I'll let you know how it goes. If it goes well then atleast the tranny will be new like the motor LOL. it's always fun to break stuff you know you can fix, cause then it doesn't hurt the wallet as much.

[cb84capri]

Preventative is the KEY word here, he may not know the maintenance history and it could possibly destroy his trans if the clutches have put a bunch of material into the trans, it would be safer to change the fluid twice than risk possible catastrophic failure when he can't afford it
edit: also if it is already slipping, no amount of flushing or changing fluid will repair the damage but, changing the fluid will get the material out, along with changing the fliter and extend the life for a while.

sometimes the filter can become plugged and cause slipping/slow shifts due to the reduced apply pressure. this was a problem in my brother's 91 blazer. changed the filter and fluid, it's shifting great again. mind you he didn't let it do this for a prolonged period of time, or beat on it in this time, and obviously the filter became plugged from something. it's not a new tranny, but it doesn't need replacement yet either.

cale

[theemustangman]

sometimes the filter can become plugged and cause slipping/slow shifts due to the reduced apply pressure. this was a problem in my brother's 91 blazer. changed the filter and fluid, it's shifting great again. mind you he didn't let it do this for a prolonged period of time, or beat on it in this time, and obviously the filter became plugged from something. it's not a new tranny, but it doesn't need replacement yet either.
cale

yeah most people ignore the filter because it is a pain to replace (tougher than someone flushing trans) so they think oh well trans fluid is clean we will be good but then the filter is clogged and starves the trans of fluid

well he scheduled his old 97 f 150 with 297K mi, and 1 trans fluid change (not flush)for wednesday. I'll let you know how it goes. If it goes well then atleast the tranny will be new like the motor LOL. it's always fun to break stuff you know you can fix, cause then it doesn't hurt the wallet as much.

tell him good luck, remember this can take just minutes or even longer to kill a trans depending on if something is clogged etc...so good luck either way, i wouldn't suggest someone doing it, but to each there own i guess....

[Whtstang]

I'm getting that a pan drain & new filter is OK but a backflush with or without a filter change is risky. Does this sum up the advice given here?

[smokinn85]

What a can of worms. Sorry guys.