Ignition troubles 85 gt. (short story)

[poorstang]

So I have a problem was nice out today so I took the gt for its monthly trip around the block and decided to go pick my daughter up from school in it (her favorite car). Anyway was moderatly pounding on it and noticed it was stumbling right as my secondaries were kicking in (holly street avenger 670 cfm). Somthing it has never done. I tuned the carb on the dyno with air fuel jetted it, new secondary spring blah blah blah. Its not the carb.

So about 1/2 mile later the tach falls to zero and the exhaust gets hybrid quiet. Pissed off I popped the hood everything looks normal all the wires are tight coil is still atached with key on I have voltage at the coil. Rotors not broke everything looks cherry. Crank the car turns over but does not fire. Then I try to show my 4 yr old how to start the car she cant get the clutch down because she doesnt weigh enough it was a good laugh. Call the wife she gets the kid I call USAA to get a tow its like a three hour wait so I walk home only 2 miles.

3 1/2 hours later the car is in the drive way and starts right up the tow truck driver looks at me like WTF I take it around the block and the it does it all over again tach falls to zero, almost like you flip the key off. I just went back out side and she starts right back up.

So what gives is it the duraspark or what. Sorry for the long story I am half way through an 18 pack. The only upgrade on the ignition side is a super stock coil that was on it when I bought it. The plug wires are new jacobs and the cap/rotor is msd. The spark plugs are good ole autolites


thanks
Mark

[85stanggt]

What kind of duraspark box is in there? A parts store one? It could be getting hot and shutting down...

[poorstang]

the box is the stock one as far as i know. i did a forum search and it seems some what common. so common that folks keep spares in their cars. i really dont drive the car much maybe once a month and that trip is usually less than twenty miles. i disconnect the battery when i cover it up so unless sitting is bad for them i dont see why it would fail in 5 miles.

[tman1257]

Sounds like that might be the answer. Just remember, it is an electrical device that can fail at any time no matter what the situation is. It sounds like the most logical place to start considering what you have on your car for parts.

[negusm]

When was the steering column ignition switch last replaced? This causes craziness when it gets bumped and shorts the car out. It will also cause a fire. Get in the car, start it up and then jiggle the steering column, etc. It may or may not stall out...you may have to open things up to look.

The duraspark might be the problem but check the wires all over to see if they are brittle/loosing insulation. Duraspark is a verry good setup but the Ford wiring sucks ass and often is the real headache.

-Mike

[85stanggt]

Duraspark is a verry good setup but the Ford wiring sucks ass and often is the real headache.

-Mike

Yes, YES, and yes.

the box is the stock one as far as i know. i did a forum search and it seems some what common. so common that folks keep spares in their cars. i really dont drive the car much maybe once a month and that trip is usually less than twenty miles. i disconnect the battery when i cover it up so unless sitting is bad for them i dont see why it would fail in 5 miles.

My stock Duraspark box still works. I got another genuine Motorcraft box from the Ford dealer and installed that to have a new box under the hood. My experience is that the stock boxes and Motorcraft ones are good and last, but that the parts store units fail alot.

[poorstang]

I will take the cover off of the colum plastic's today and see if any is out of the ordanary.

Aside from the not running will a duraspark box cause the miss in middle rpms under heavy load if its on its way out the door? I know changing temps/pressure will throw a carb a little out of tune but it was cutting out bad. I do not run the vacuum advance on the stock dizzy and I had it professonally recurved its not loose and like I said all the external ignition stuff is newer less than 1000 miles. The carb was setup in similar weather conditions also so i its not like its a different season or anything.

[85stanggt]

You said the coil was on it when you bought it. Maybe the coil is having issues? Under load and/or when it heats up?

I don't think you're going to get a carb problem from heating up, unless something like a needle and seat gets stuck open and starts flooding your engine. Have you looked down the carb when the engine dies to see if there's raw fuel going down the venturis?

[dy85merc]

Pick-up coil in the dizzy, breaks down when it heats up.

[TuxStang]

+1 for pick-up coil

[Cappn Tripps]

+1 for the duraspark, stator in the distributor 2nd. Most parts place like, autozone, can test the box.

[JACook]

+1 for the duraspark, stator in the distributor 2nd. Most parts place like, autozone, can test the box.

IF it's an aftermarket box. Otherwise if it's genuine Motorcraft, consider the box
last. Or else make sure you keep your old one for a spare once you replace it and
then later find out what the real problem was...

[85stanggt]

The stators in the distributor go bad? And they can be heat sensitive? Can it be tested with a meter?

[JACook]

The Duraspark II pickup coils are -very- reliable. If there is a problem, it's usually
one of the wires breaks inside the insulation, which will usually cause major misfire
at part-throttle when the vacuum advance is active. Another thing that usually
never happens on original Motorcraft parts, because they use better quality wire.

[69SCJ]

I had an Escort that did the exact same thing. It was the stator.

[JACook]

Was your Escort injected? Usually what people call the stator is also known as
the PIP module. Very different part in both construction and function from the
magnetic pickup used in the Duraspark II.

If your Escort was carbureted, nevermind...

[85stanggt]

Yeah, I've heard about the wiring going out on those stators from the movement caused by the advance mechanism. I can attest to the better Motorcraft wiring, as my stator is original and the wires are clean and perfect! (at least inside the distributor). The Ford wiring around the engine sucks.

For such a heat sensitive issue, I wouldn't be thinking wiring, though.

When these stators fail, do they just go out? As some of you may know from my recent posts, I've been dealing with a part throttle misfire only when up to temp, but my car doesn't die. The stator is about the only thing so far that I haven't checked.

[allenpul]

my 93 Mustang did the same crap. It was the stator/pip inside the dizzy. Got a boneyard model and was on the road in less than 15 minutes.....

[69SCJ]

Was your Escort injected? Usually what people call the stator is also known as
the PIP module. Very different part in both construction and function from the
magnetic pickup used in the Duraspark II.

If your Escort was carbureted, nevermind...

Hmmmm....Not sure. It was an 84.....I think.

[Cappn Tripps]

My original duraspark box lasted 52k miles. A big part of how long they last is where you live. Hot climates are harder on them. I'm on about the 3rd autozone box since the early 90's... The one on there now has been going for 6 or so years. If you want to check it yourself, just put a heat lamp on it and see if the car starts when the engine is cold.

[TuxStang]

Never seen a dead module yet ... but already changed a few pick-up coils (what some call stator ?) on my cars and friends' because of sudden engine dying when hot.

About pick-up wires, had then cut when i changed my first, but that was because of how i routed them. If you don't route them correctly, they can be cut by the reluctor.

Don't forget the reluctor, it's not a fail-safe part either ... it rusts with time and become brittle. Took the habit to change it while changing the pick-up.

[poorstang]

all thanks for the post, I have started messing with it I found a great deal on craigslist and picked a MSD 6AL new in box for 120.

So looking under the hood of the car and checking plugs and what not which are very tight by the way, I have one small problem all of the insulation on all of the wires with the exception of a few will crumble in your hand so it looks like I am going to be rewiring.

So in the new plan of things I am thinking about picking up a new dizzy does any one have a recomendation? I see the MSD's on summit are some what affordable. But I need some one to school me the lack of vacuum advance on these. So if "learn me" I would appreciate it.