Needing advice about putting an 88 roller motor in an 81

[TimS532]

Here's the latest update.......

BTW This is the Dad writing this post....sorry if my son and I have got anyone confused in the last couple of posts.

Anyway, I spoke with the guy we are having do the swap today. He installed the new dizzy we bought; bringing #1 cyl to t.d.c. on compression stroke before dropping it in and found that the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is 180 degrees off. (I wasn't there to confirm that it was on the compression stroke)
I personally have rebuilt a number of small block chevy's and have never been faced with this issue myself.
I hate to second guess his abilities, but I wanted to ask you guys if there is something he may be doing wrong. Should the 88 roller engine line up like this? My feeling is that he doesn't have the cyl up on compression stroke but rather on exhaust stroke. Am I thinking correctly?
I know the engine is in time because it was running when we pulled it and we never broke the timing assembly apart. Although we didn't check where the timing was lining up at before we pulled the old dizzy.
My next question is does anyone know what cable/gear combo to use so that the 88 AOD tranny will work with the 81 speed-o?
And thirdly are there any sensors that have to be used from the 88 to make it shift correctly? The only plugs that are on the tranny is the speed-o and what I believe is the back-up lights and neutral safety switch. In other words, it shouldn't be an electronic overdrive correct?

[Syco Stang]

Here's the latest update.......

BTW This is the Dad writing this post....sorry if my son and I have got anyone confused in the last couple of posts.

You guys should sign off with Jr. or Sr. after your response, or create two accounts

Anyway, I spoke with the guy we are having do the swap today. He installed the new dizzy we bought; bringing #1 cyl to t.d.c. on compression stroke before dropping it in and found that the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is 180 degrees off. (I wasn't there to confirm that it was on the compression stroke)
I personally have rebuilt a number of small block chevy's and have never been faced with this issue myself.
I hate to second guess his abilities, but I wanted to ask you guys if there is something he may be doing wrong. Should the 88 roller engine line up like this? My feeling is that he doesn't have the cyl up on compression stroke but rather on exhaust stroke. Am I thinking correctly?
I know the engine is in time because it was running when we pulled it and we never broke the timing assembly apart. Although we didn't check where the timing was lining up at before we pulled the old dizzy.

Well, that sounds like it's 180 out to me. It's real easy, take out all the plugs, put your thumb on the #1 spark plug hole, crank it with a socket and bar and when you feel pressure you're on the compression stroke, then just bring it up to 0 on the marker and drop in your distributor. The firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 and number one on the dizzy usually falls pointing at 11 o clock viewed from the front of the car.
There is the possibility that the timing marker on the crank damper has moved. When the rubber dries out it can sometimes separate and give false readings. This usually happens to higher mileage motors.

My next question is does anyone know what cable/gear combo to use so that the 88 AOD tranny will work with the 81 speed-o?
And thirdly are there any sensors that have to be used from the 88 to make it shift correctly? The only plugs that are on the tranny is the speed-o and what I believe is the back-up lights and neutral safety switch. In other words, it shouldn't be an electronic overdrive correct?

I've had a few four eyed Stangs and I'm pretty sure the '88 speedo cable should work fine, just make sure to install the proper speedometer gear to match your rear gears. There are no sensors to hook up, just the neutral switch, and reverse. The 88 AOD was not electronically controlled, but did have a speed sensor on the speedo cable. You will not be using it. The only thing you have to hook up right to make it shift properly is the TV cable. I think you have to buy a bracket to make it work with a carb. Look up www.clickclickracing.com for some good AOD tech.

[86 50CPRI]

180* out seems strange.How did the motor run prior. When my harmonic balancer went out at 235K,it shook like crazy,would rattle the windows and vibrate the whole car. The outer hub rotated on the rubber 'doughnut'.

Will the motor crank by itself yet,electrically? If youre only turning it by hand,maybe you are getting off readings.

Lastly,not to sound like a smart alec..# 1 cyl front passenger side,right?

[TimS532]

180* out seems strange.How did the motor run prior. When my harmonic balancer went out at 235K,it shook like crazy,would rattle the windows and vibrate the whole car. The outer hub rotated on the rubber 'doughnut'.

Will the motor crank by itself yet,electrically? If youre only turning it by hand,maybe you are getting off readings.

Lastly,not to sound like a smart alec..# 1 cyl front passenger side,right?

The engine ran perfect when we pulled it.

Yes it will crank with the starter, although we haven't found the correct wires to connect the 81 neutral safety to the 88 tranny just yet. So "cranking" is currently beind done via the ole screwdriver method.

I'm not certain which cyl he had up when he dropped in the dizzy. But what you are suggesting is that he may have brought up #5 instead of #1, which would be an easy mistake for a person who is more familliar with chevy's. That will be the 1st question I ask him tomorrow.
We are using a factory Ford aluminium 4-barrel intake and the cylinders are identified on it, I would think he would've noticed that but who knows.? I will definately check it myself before we start trying to get it running.
Right now we are still in the process of mounting the fuel pump, pressure regulator, filter, and new fuel lines. It will be at least a few more days (probably longer) before we are ready to "fire it up".

[TimS532]

bump

[86 50CPRI]

okay....you bumped,but what about any new info and updates?

[plstktnkr2]

are you sure that dizzy is in the right place?
passenger side front is number one, pull the valve cover and watch the valve movement when the stop moving look to see wher H/balancer is as far as timing marks are located. and see if the balancer marks moved maybe.
give us an update.

[JACook]

If the Chebby mechanic chose the wrong #1, the timing mark would end up 90
degrees away, not 180.

As was suggested, put a finger over the #1 spark plug hole, and crank the engine
while feeling for compression. Then finish turning the engine by hand, feeling the
top of the piston with a screwdriver. If the marks don't line up, get a new damper.

[TimS532]

The car is somewhat running now. After he tried to start it with no success with the way he originally wired the firing order, he changed it around to 89 and up specs and it fired right up.
Looks like we are going to have to rebuild the Holley carb now
It starts good, but it doesn't idle very well and when it is brought to a high idle it surges and doesn't level out. It also shuts off good (no dieseling). Have tried adjusting the float, etc... but it just isn't lining out like it should.
The one thing he did differently that I'm not sure of is the way he has the fuel pressure regulated. Instead of simply installing a manual fuel pump regulator where you can set the pressure to the desired psi you want, he installed an electronic pressure switch that works between 3-6 psi. I believe he said it is just an oil sending unit switch. I may be off base but it seems to me that pressure switch could cause the surging if it were kicking off and on. He assured me that it will be on constantly as long as the engine is running and will kick off if it isn't. Like I said this is the first time I have seen this type of set-up so I am just watching and learning. If the rebuild on the carb doesn't do the trick I am going to suggest a regular manual pressure regulator to see if it makes a difference.
I should have more info this weekend. As soon as I do I will post it.

[TimS532]

Well the car is almost finished. The guy found a hole in part of the fuel line in the inner fender, apparently that was the problem with the surging! He rebuilt the carb and unhooked his pressure switch, we have decided to just go ahead and go with a regulator. It is idling* (spelling) fine but its still very cold natured lol the only thing left is some wiring and hooking up the regulator. Im hopeing he can get it done before my birthday (Thursday) because Im going to get my permit so Id be able to drive it around After we get it home I guess dads gonna make me start on the interior, fun oh what fun! lol. Im very glad to say I got to hear it run Sunday, it was the first time Ive heard it run in about 2 months! Now Ive got to wait to drive it, but it will all be worth it in the end!

[86 50CPRI]

wow..congrats! Glad to hear your project has come to life.Feels good,don't it!

[TimS532]

Yes it does! I know the time is almost here when I get to pay the man and take the car...he told me to just pay him at the end so it will be a couple of shiny pennies! Something I think is funny is Im goin out with his daughter, were goin to the movies this Friday and I think he is taking us. lol

[TimS532]

Sorry we havent made any recent posts.

Well its getting closer everyday, he figured out all the wiring and now he can start it from the key and it runs just fine! He has to figure out some other problems and tinker with the carb, first the brakes went out on him, but they were just fine when we rolled it on and off the trailer, but that was also 2-3 months ago. Then he figured out the neutral <<spelling<< safety switch is messed up, it will start in any gear. Then we have to get a choke arm or buy an electric choke which is Im wanting to say $15-$20 more than the kit for the choke cable and choke kit. Will try to get some pics posted soon!

[TimS532]

Again sorry, my parents havent put the pics on the computer for me and I havent quite figured it out!

Well I finally got my car back, all that really needs fixed to make it a good driver is the carb and the steering column, for some reason the carb keeps cutting out. We took it for a drive yesterday and it drove OK but when you give it gas you have to feather it instead of just flooring it or even easing into it. This weekend me and my dad think were gonna take the carb off of his S-10 and put on mine to see if it is the carb or not. If you have any other ideas of what it might be please leave a reply.

Thanks!
Tim

[SilentInsomnia]

What distributor are you using?

SI

[Syco Stang]

Again sorry, my parents havent put the pics on the computer for me and I havent quite figured it out!

Well I finally got my car back, all that really needs fixed to make it a good driver is the carb and the steering column, for some reason the carb keeps cutting out. We took it for a drive yesterday and it drove OK but when you give it gas you have to feather it instead of just flooring it or even easing into it. This weekend me and my dad think were gonna take the carb off of his S-10 and put on mine to see if it is the carb or not. If you have any other ideas of what it might be please leave a reply.

Thanks!
Tim

You need a new power valve and/or accelerator pump.

[JACook]

No vacuum advance, or improperly connected vacuum advance will also cause stumble.
You can mask the problem with more fuel squirt, but I wouldn't.

Might also have a vacuum leak.

[TimS532]

Dad says he thinks it might be a vaccum leak too, because when its at an idle and you raise the rpm's it stutters and almost kills itself, it will do this at any rpm level. Also I know this isnt with the mechanical part but do you guys think I should paint it Blue with like how the original Black stipe at the bottom and Black hood scoop was but instead Silver stripe and scoop?

[TimS532]

Well we swapped the carbs from his S-10 to my car and it fired right up. He went ahead and swaped carbs with me because we thought at the time the S-10 was gonna run better than my car with the Holley, turns out it didnt but he went ahead and let me keep the Edelbrock. We took it out for a drive today and it ran perfect.

[TimS532]

Finally got the pics posted. Here's a link to my Photobucket. Just highlight, copy and paste in the address bar. Hope you enjoy them!
Tim

P.S. Dad has made a profile on here as Four_Eyed_Snake so if you see that on here it's him.

http://s943.photobucket.com/albums/a...a.jpg&newest=1

[glssis]

Looks good!

[Syco Stang]

LOL Damn you're definitely a young'un!!!!!! Car looks good, what colour is that?

[TimS532]

Thanks! Not sure exactly what colour it is, I bought it as is, besides the engine of course, Im planning on repainting it a Harley Davidson Cobalt Blue, and the silver.