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  1. #1

    Default 85 gt springs vs.factory mont

    my fairmont rear springs are shot would stock 85 gt hatch springs raise it some? i got some gave to me for free is why i am asking. thanks matt.

  2. #2

    Default springs

    I think mustang hatch springs are 200/300 variable rate ......if they are newer they should help the sag.

  3. #3

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    thanks man.

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Default LSpring info per Moog June '06 catalog

    '78-'83 Fairmont (excluding wagon) use 8597 or CC821.
    '78-'83 Fairmont Wagons use 8599 or CC823.
    '85 Mustang GT uses CC827, no other springs listed.

    [i]*CC are Cargo Coils, which are variable rate springs*[i]

    CC827- 9.5" installed | 691lb load | 174lb/in | 13.80" free height
    CC823- 10.25" install | 808lb load | 340lb/in | 12.63" free
    CC821- 09.25" install | 804lb load | 275lb/in | 12.29" free

    8597 - 9.5" installed | 726lb load | 224lb/in | 12.75" free height
    8599 - 9.5" installed | 926lb load | 249lb/in | 13.33" free height.
    Last edited by MAD MIKE; 09-12-2009 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Mulligan
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member David Claflin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD MIKE View Post
    '78-'83 Fairmont (excluding wagon) use 8597 or CC821.
    '78-'83 Fairmont Wagons use 8599 or CC823.
    '85 Mustang GT uses CC827, no other springs listed.

    [i]*CC are Cargo Coils, which are variable rate springs*[i]

    CC827- 9.5" installed | 691lb load | 174lb/in | 13.8" free height
    CC823- 10.25" install | 808lb load | 340lb/in | 12.63" free
    CC821- 09.25" install | 580lb load | 196lb/in | 12.46" free

    8597 - 9.5" installed | 726lb load | 224lb/in | 12.75" free height
    8599 - 9.5" installed | 926lb load | 249lb/in | 13.33" free height.
    Do you by chance have any info on 85 LTD LX rear springs? I've got a set of stock mustang GT springs as well, and would like to see how the rates compare to the LX.
    1990 Red LX, GT40 heads, CSE cam, Ported explorer intake, 1 3/4 long accufabs, 3" exhaust, T5, 4.30, lightened up some, 7.4X@91, working to get it lower.

    1985 LTD LX, 347 in the works, Mach1 brakes, 16" Ford police car wheels. 7.86@86MPH with 302, 3640 pounds with 1/4 tank of gas and me in it. 347 build in progress

    1984 LTD station wagon, with 84GT nose, some might remember it as the old Dugan Racing station wagon.

  6. #6

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    thats nice to know thanks

  7. #7
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Claflin View Post
    Do you by chance have any info on 85 LTD LX rear springs? I've got a set of stock mustang GT springs as well, and would like to see how the rates compare to the LX.
    Same as Fairmont(excluding wagon) use 8597 or CC821.
    What year GT? You may have one of six rates with the Mustang/Capri.
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member Greywolf's Avatar
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    Mike,

    Didn't the LTD LX have different spring rates from the regular LTD? Although the applications are the same in the moog/trx/etc catalogs, I'm pretty sure Ford gave them a different part number; perhaps the LX was uncommon enough to just get lumped in with the other LTDs by the aftermarket?

    After work I'll fire up my Ford catalog and look.

    Ben

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywolf View Post
    Mike,

    Didn't the LTD LX have different spring rates from the regular LTD?
    The rear weight will not change much between 4dr/5dr Fox Chassis models. I don't see any reason for Ford putting a higher spring rate in the rear. The easiest way to stiffen up the rear on the quadrabind would be to use a sway bar.
    As for the front, the LX is a different rating from the other LTDs. They are rated at 415lb/in where the others are rated at 383lb/in. The only difference amongst the other LTD listings is free height and load ratings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greywolf View Post
    Although the applications are the same in the moog/trx/etc catalogs, I'm pretty sure Ford gave them a different part number;
    The LTD LX front spring does have its own listing. 8598.
    Being a touring car I would think the sway bar in the front would also be upgraded.
    Last edited by MAD MIKE; 07-31-2009 at 04:27 AM.
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  10. #10
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Default

    I goofed on a spring rate posting (cause I dont read so well hyuk hyuk).
    Davids quote has captured the error.

    CC821- 09.25" install | 804lb load | 275lb/in | 12.29" free is correct.

    CC821- 09.25" install | 580lb load | 196lb/in | 12.46" free is false.
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD MIKE View Post
    The rear weight will not change much between 4dr/5dr Fox Chassis models. I don't see any reason for Ford putting a higher spring rate in the rear. The easiest way to stiffen up the rear on the quadrabind would be to use a sway bar.
    A stabilizer bar does not increase spring rate. What it can do is increase the
    effective wheel rate on the outside wheel, when cornering. But that's not the
    same thing.

    A station wagon will normally have a substantially higher spring rate than it's
    sedan equivalent. Station wagons do have more rearward weight bias, but the
    bigger consideration is with how they are typically used. A wagon can carry
    far more cargo than a sedan, and they tend to do so much more often. When
    carrying cargo, spring rate matters more than anything.

    Few Fox wagons ever came from the factory with rear bars under them.

    BTW, Fox rear suspensions only bind when people modify them in ways they
    shouldn't.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ... '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed...
    '71 Datsun 510 ... And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  12. #12
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    A stabilizer bar does not increase spring rate. What it can do is increase the
    effective wheel rate on the outside wheel, when cornering. But that's not the
    same thing.
    In a perfect application, yes. But we are talking Fox Chassis .
    I didn't say it would increase the spring rate/load capacity , it does change the feel and does stiffen(through bind) the rear. The counteracting effect with the swaybar leveraging against the opposite control arm and spring does create the effect of a stiffer suspension. Over a speed hump you may not notice, but uneven dips the suspension will feel stiffer.
    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    A station wagon will normally have a substantially higher spring rate than it's
    sedan equivalent. A wagon can carry
    far more cargo than a sedan, and they tend to do so much more often.
    I disagree.
    Load Capacity is the difference, not spring rate. 8597 and 8599 have fairly close spring rates, the biggest difference is in their load capacities which is 200lb per spring. This often correlates with a taller free standing height and/or thicker coil wire. The car may sit higher empty, but when loaded it will still have the same spring rate and ride comfort when empty.
    A wagon can definitely hold more volume in its interior than a sedan, that's a given. But both still share the same chassis.
    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    When carrying cargo, spring rate matters more than anything.
    A cargo spring changes rate exponentially throughout travel. This is great for counteracting heavy weight in the car over large dips and bumps, where a linear spring may bottom out.
    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    BTW, Fox rear suspensions only bind when people modify them in ways they
    shouldn't.
    You mean like how Ford added a rear sway bolted directly to each RLCA
    Which are not parallel links. With the links level to the chassis rails pointing straight back, the ends of the arms are farthest from each other. Bound the axle up past this and the arms begin to get closer, same in rebound. If the arms were long enough and could rotate 360* ,on their chassis mounting point, they would hit the driveshaft.
    Last edited by MAD MIKE; 09-12-2009 at 09:04 PM. Reason: wording
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  13. #13

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    Spring rate is defined as how many pounds of load it takes to compress the spring
    one inch. Rate is determined by the tensile strength and diameter of the spring wire,
    and the number of active coils. Now, when the spring is not directly over the axle,
    there is a bit of geometry involved to get the actual wheel rate, so you can't
    just look at the chart and know what your wheel rate will be. But the fact remains,
    the spring rate is the -most- important factor to consider when selecting springs
    for either performance, or load carrying. The free length of the spring is simply
    a by-product of how much preload you need at a given spring rate, to achieve
    your desired ride height.

    Cargo coils are just a marketing term for variable-rate springs. All variable-rate
    springs work on the principle of reducing the number of active coils as you increase
    load. Variable rate springs allow a softer ride when lightly loaded, then when you
    add load, the closer-together coils stack. This causes the remaining coils to do
    all the work, which increases the spring rate.

    This is all pretty much "spring 101" stuff here, you can look it up in any text book.

    I'm not sure why you consider a stabilizer bar as causing bind. A stabilizer bar
    is nothing more than a torsion bar, or in other words, a linear spring. It's job is
    to transfer load from one side of the suspension during cornering, to the other.
    Being a spring, it has a linear spring rate. Suspension bind is characterized by
    a non-linear buildup of effective rate.

    Whether the stabilizer is bolted directly to the control arm, or tied to it using links,
    doesn't change how it does it's job. The fact that Ford bolted the Fox rear bar
    directly to the arms does not induce any bind, it's just the most expedient way
    to get the job done. You might want to study how Ford chose to form the ends
    of the bar the way they did, and bolt it inside the arms, rather than just using
    a couple simple bends, and bolt the bar to the outside of the control arms. (The
    way the bar is formed allows it to twist in multiple axes.)
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ... '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed...
    '71 Datsun 510 ... And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  14. #14

    Default

    i picked up some 85 t-bird turbo coupe springs today i am hoping it will raise my sagging rear anyone know the spring rates on these?

  15. #15

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    i got them installed they look just right i like them.

  16. #16
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanyonGT View Post
    i picked up some 85 t-bird turbo coupe springs today i am hoping it will raise my sagging rear anyone know the spring rates on these?
    Same as the Sedans.
    CC823- 10.25" install | 808lb load | 340lb/in | 12.63" free
    8599 - 9.5" installed | 926lb load | 249lb/in | 13.33" free height
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD MIKE View Post
    Same as the Sedans.
    CC823- 10.25" install | 808lb load | 340lb/in | 12.63" free
    8599 - 9.5" installed | 926lb load | 249lb/in | 13.33" free height
    Is that different than the 88 turbo coupe? I have an 83 4door mont and it needs springs. I also have an 88 turbo coupe that is going to be scrapped. I'd like to use the springs in the mont, is that a bad idea?

  18. #18

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    the 85 springs raised mine right up.

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4bangen View Post
    Is that different than the 88 turbo coupe?
    '83-'88 TCs used the same rear springs, which are the...
    Quote Originally Posted by MAD MIKE View Post
    Same as the Sedans.
    CC823- 10.25" install | 808lb load | 340lb/in | 12.63" free
    8599 - 9.5" installed | 926lb load | 249lb/in | 13.33" free height
    Front springs of the TCs are 8600, 8602(both 415lb/in) or 8606(462lb/in)
    Last edited by MAD MIKE; 12-20-2009 at 06:45 PM. Reason: number-fu bust
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  20. #20
    FEP Senior Member David Claflin's Avatar
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    Michael, where did you get the moog catalog from? I looked on Rock Auto and they sometimes list the heights and wire diameters, which is helpful, but they don't list that info for all springs. I looked on the Moog website, but didn't see anything about a catalog....
    1990 Red LX, GT40 heads, CSE cam, Ported explorer intake, 1 3/4 long accufabs, 3" exhaust, T5, 4.30, lightened up some, 7.4X@91, working to get it lower.

    1985 LTD LX, 347 in the works, Mach1 brakes, 16" Ford police car wheels. 7.86@86MPH with 302, 3640 pounds with 1/4 tank of gas and me in it. 347 build in progress

    1984 LTD station wagon, with 84GT nose, some might remember it as the old Dugan Racing station wagon.

  21. #21
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Claflin View Post
    Michael, where did you get the moog catalog from?
    The old fashioned way, I asked for one.
    There are no mystical magical springs for the F-C. It does not cover all makes/models/years either.
    Last edited by MAD MIKE; 02-27-2011 at 04:19 AM.
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  22. #22
    FEP Senior Member David Claflin's Avatar
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    Thanks, my son took his old springs out of his 94Gt, and I was thinking of using his rear springs. I'll also see if there's a way to determine spring rate from the WD size and height info.
    1990 Red LX, GT40 heads, CSE cam, Ported explorer intake, 1 3/4 long accufabs, 3" exhaust, T5, 4.30, lightened up some, 7.4X@91, working to get it lower.

    1985 LTD LX, 347 in the works, Mach1 brakes, 16" Ford police car wheels. 7.86@86MPH with 302, 3640 pounds with 1/4 tank of gas and me in it. 347 build in progress

    1984 LTD station wagon, with 84GT nose, some might remember it as the old Dugan Racing station wagon.

  23. #23
    FEP Power Member MAD MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Claflin View Post
    Thanks, my son took his old springs out of his 94Gt, and I was thinking of using his rear springs. I'll also see if there's a way to determine spring rate from the WD size and height info.
    They are either
    Coupe
    CC827- 9.5" installed | 691lb load | 174lb/in | 13.80" free height
    Convertible
    CC835- 9.13" installed | 691lb load | 174lb/in | 13.50" free height
    -Michael
    '79 Fairmont 5dr 'car guy safe' MM Tech Tips StopTech Brake Bias StopTech White Papers

  24. #24
    FEP Power Member mcb82gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Claflin View Post
    Thanks, my son took his old springs out of his 94Gt, and I was thinking of using his rear springs. I'll also see if there's a way to determine spring rate from the WD size and height info.
    Most of us cougar/bird guys were using those springs in the rear. It dropped it pretty good. Maybe too much for me, some were using adjustable rear lower cont arms to get the ride height dialed in for them.
    Mike

    Now stang-less.

    88 Cougar 5.0

  25. #25
    FEP Senior Member David Claflin's Avatar
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    Just as a gee-whiz for this, if you put the spring number Michael loaded into the search bar on Moogs site you can get all the info you might need about the springs. It's at the bottom of the page.
    http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com...rod=MOOG-CC821
    1990 Red LX, GT40 heads, CSE cam, Ported explorer intake, 1 3/4 long accufabs, 3" exhaust, T5, 4.30, lightened up some, 7.4X@91, working to get it lower.

    1985 LTD LX, 347 in the works, Mach1 brakes, 16" Ford police car wheels. 7.86@86MPH with 302, 3640 pounds with 1/4 tank of gas and me in it. 347 build in progress

    1984 LTD station wagon, with 84GT nose, some might remember it as the old Dugan Racing station wagon.

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