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  1. #1

    Default 1985 CFI Engine Build

    Hello everyone and thank you.


    Before I get into all of the details, I want to show you what I currently have, and what I'd like to add. I'm looking for opinions and input. If anyone has any experience trying to get 300-400 horsepower from a 84-85 CFI engine, please share some results, problems, or any other feedback that you can with these engines. (I'm not including my brake/suspension/handling/etc. as I already have all that sorted out.)

    Currently my 1985 GT hatchback has:

    1989 GT OEM exhaust manifold
    Pypes X-pipe
    Flowmaster mufflers
    1987 GT 8.8 diff (I don't know the gears. Speedo is about 11 mi/hr too fast at 65 mph)

    Here's what I'm thinking to buy, and I'd like opinions on all of these parts as well as whether to keep my camshaft stock or convert to roller.

    Holley Sniper EFI
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...parts/550-510K

    Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake Manifold
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7521

    Air Flow Research 165cc SBF Street Cylinder Heads
    https://lmr.com/item/AFR-1472/mustan...-pedestal-1472

    Proform 1.7 Ratio Pedestal Mount Roller Rocker Arms
    https://lmr.com/item/PFM-66878/1-7-R...all-Block-Ford




    I have searched for other CFI builds, but came up dry, so I started this forum. I envision something a little more unique that I think not many people have done. Let's keep it CFI, but still make close to 400 horses. The catch is I don't want to modify the bottom end, including the pistons. I am undecided if I want to convert my camshaft to roller lifters, or keep the flat tappet design.




    I want to hear opinions and stories if you have them. What kind of torque and horsepower figures might be estimated from this combination? Does anyone have experience upgrading the CFI 302? Is it worth upgrading, or better to swap it out? Am I foolish for wanting to keep my pistons stock? Does anyone have experience upgrading the rocker arm ratio and cylinder head on an 85 CFI engine? What kind of piston to valve clearance can I expect? Ideally I would do all of my performance upgrades without removing the engine as I have neither the time, space, or budget to do so.

    If no one replies to this thread, I will update my progress as I upgrade the engine that way I can hopefully help someone else who might decide to follow my footsteps.

  2. #2

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    Go for it. But I would add headers too. I wouldn't worry about the block or cam at first if money is an issue but I am sure others that know better than me will say you will never hit your numbers with the stock cam.

    When I was building mine up the headers were the biggest single improvement then of course a complete engine rebuild. Now mine is probably at 240 hp 320 torque at the flex plate. I am pretty sure a sniper would put me at 300 hp. I do have an aftermarket cam but a very very mild one.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  3. #3

    Default

    My dream now is a stock cfi with a 5 speed... Now that has probably never been done.

    Oh, and what about your distributor?
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  4. #4

    Default

    I think you're right about the CFI/5-speed combo. That would be unique. As for my distributor, what about it? It's the stock electronic advance type. Surprisingly with all the vacuum lines going everywhere, that's one of the few things in the engine bay that is not a part of that system. If a camshaft upgrade would require a new distributor gear and/or distributor I would swap accordingly. Is one of the parts on my list to buy
    (probably Holley Sniper?)
    not compatible with stock distributor? Or are you saying I should upgrade my ignition system to add a few ponies?

  5. #5
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    I'm going to quibble a bit about your terminology and perhaps shed some light on why you're not finding much about CFI engine builds. CFI stands for Central Fuel Injection, Ford's name for a carburetor-looking thing with 2 fuel injectors on top of a standard 2 bbl intake manifold. It was designed as a stop-gap system to meet fuel economy standards, among other things, while they got port injection working. Stock CFI injectors and stock engine computer won't function properly with any serious modification, no way will it support 400 hp. So the first thing most people do is pitch the injector body and computer, and then they don't usually call it a CFI engine anymore. There are lots of things they call it, but rarely call it a CFI, because it isn't. It's just a Standard Output engine, as opposed to a High Output engine, SO vs HO. From what I gather, the SO bottom end will stand up to a fair amount of power as long as you don't spin it past 6000 rpm or so, or run compression up too much. I'm sure you'll get some other opinions about those limits.

    Having said all that, you have some good ideas to work toward. I think you will have to replace the stock cam because it's pretty lame unless you're thinking about forced induction, which is a whole different ballgame. There are arguments pro and con about flat tappet vs roller tappet. I don't want to get into that.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The CFi is a speed density Throttle Body EFi sysytem like GM and Toyota used on there economy base model engines. Its essentially a Bosch D or Lucas D jetronic injection system, without port EFi, and without sequential injectors, and no VAM or MAF sensor. No having a Vane Air Meter or Mass Air Sensor eliminated the need to have anything except a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor to calibrate the air fuel ratio, and the ignition was totally solid state, without cetrifugal or vacuum advance...it was essentially the first of the TFi and EDIS style 100% electronic systems which was based on the earlier EECIII Duraspark III system, which had a totally solid state advance control.


    When people minimise the CFi option as just a Standard Output 2-bbl carb engine with Electronic Digital EFi engine, they are wrong.

    When they say it has no potential, and that it is effectively just a traditional John the Baptist forerunner for what was to come, they are worng too.

    The 5.0 HO CFi EECIV took all the EFi and ignition protocols and algorithims of the 129 to 140 hp EECIII 1980 to 1984 big Ford CFi engines, and wrapped it up in very advanced Motorolla chip architecture, and used a new Box Code method of programming. Its TFi was simply a cheaper Duraspark III system with simple protocols.

    It ruled out the use of a bulky, complicated VAM or MAF sensor, and its MAP sensor was a downgraded BMAP sensor with less cost and complication. By 1985, the integrated Heated O2 sensor in the last 1985 5.0's HO automatics was phased in Port EFi technology. EECIV ran and started dealing with running the whole EGR and Thermactor Up and Downstream AIR 100% electronically. It eliminated the IAC control, and used a speed kicker to prevent stalling by "tipping in" or "spiking" ignition advance. It didn't have Primary Light off Thermal Reactor catalysts like other HO 2 or 4-BBL 1982-1985 engines because it was so much cleaner.


    The ECCIV/TFi HO engine is indeed a 100% M code High Output engine like the 4-BBL HO GT and RS engine, but it used the 1980 to 1984 Lincoln Mercury 5.0 EECIII DS III intake manifold design.

    In the HO engine, there was the raunchier Torino 351W 1973 option cam which scrabled the firing order to the bigger 351W and Cleveland and 351m/400 Ford order. It which wasn't a roller cam, but still a very good performance cam compared to the Standard Output 129 to 140 hp CFi cam shaft.

    Due to Ford Come See and Conquer parts procurement philosphy, it was is also 100% similar to the 1982 2V GT F code 157 hp and the last HO Lincoln Continental/ LSC/ 1984-1985 LTD LX 165 hp engine option intake, with a different part number depending on year and application.



    The CFi was dumbed down because it was so strong. It had three problems.


    Item 1. The EECIV was very Totalitatian, and didn't like any changes from the floor. Add some High flow heads with bigger than stock HO 2 or 4 BBL 5.0 cams and certain kinds of bigger primary diameter headers could sometimes cause idle issues and stalling, so although an HO CFi will run with an E cam, it won't like GT40 heads with too much flow, and certain cobinations of H/C/I will screw with the stock air fuel, MAP and Igntion settings.

    Item 2. The injector impingment on the back of the 2-bbl Autolite2100/ Motorcraft 2150/ Rochester 2CG /Holley 2300 7448/4412 style throttle blades causes air fuel mixture swings to each cylinder and various speeds. Fords EEE guys spent time fixing this for the LX LTD amd Mercury MTX sqaud cars and the last 1985 Mustang and Capri automatics. They used flow ramps which were tangs in the 2-bbl gasket to biase flow back to the lean cylinders. If you add flow and fuel pressure to get the 96 pounds per hour injection flow for each injector needed to make 350 to 400 flywheel horspower, the Roosters tail will be chaotic and you'll have to do Morse tests on the air fuel ratios to each 8 cylinders. This is specfically why Ford refused to fortify the 5.0 CFi HO engine with any more money. It could have been fixed with a Niisan Pathfinder V6 TBi injector, which used the 2305 style Holley or DGEV 38 Weber throttle blade which is biased differently. A huge amount of blank alley work went into Throttle Body EFi. For the 2.2 Mopar 2-bbl and and 2.3 Turbo's, an EFi style 2-bbl throttle that mated the 2-BBL 350 and 500 design carbs to a better fuel delievery distibution was a planned carb option for them that would have worked, and was picked up by Ford Australia and Nissan, using the Nipondenso style Tempo CFi injectors whichTGM and Chrysler Corp used, they nailed poor air fuel mix problems which are the bane of Throotle Body EFi systems. Ford USA decided not to ever again spend money on anything other than Port EFI. To address air fuel swings, you need to chart individual cylinder EGT's (Exhaust Gas tempratures) and then do the wide band O2 tuning. You can destroy a CFi HO 5.0 with high speed cylinder to lean outs.

    Item 3. The last thing is that Unless the Car Maker does it, your pushing Excretia Up Hill with a Pointed Stick. If your smart enough, you'll do it cheaply, but if you think you know more than the FoMoCo, then you'll pay big $$$ to make CFi work. Especailly if you cheap out an go the GM TBi route. Ford made the EECIV and TFi 5.0 CFi very specfically. To add a 5 speed, you have to be able to kick the throttle speed up if you loose MAP signal. The First Port EFi EECIV units had junk program DNA that proved that Ford was experimenting with the kicking the idle spped up at speed below 6 mph whent the Variable Relector Speedo sensor stops polling. A VSS is required on later cars to make a clean signal that stops the dangers of a power steered V8 car stalling on the coast down to lights. The CFi 5.0 HO doesn't have a fall back method to safely spike engine speed. If its converted to 5 speed, it needs a safe method of stopping a low speed stall. The CFi 3.8 does...its an IAC.

    MegaSqurt is a 100% 60 pin EECIV and TFi compatable system that is open source, and all the three things above can be fixed with it for about 500 bucks plus some shaddow tuning sesssions and a wide band. Three lines of code, and its runs EDIS 8 which uses 99.9% of the TFi PIP/SPOUT protocols, and most Feul deliver problems are really sloved with a having the best Electronic Igntion system. The TFi and EDIS are the best in the business for cost and reliablity due to Mass Production. The HEI based Mopar and GM systems are either cross fire prone (AMC/Mopar/Prestolite) or in the case of GM, an henous Pig in a temple of thing. Okay if its a Chev, but not in a Ford.

    The industry has steadfastly refused to support the CFi 5.0 EECIV chip upgrades primarliy due to the Items 1 and 2 above. The GM 1227747 ECU Cal Pak/ Mem Cal TBi is a simarly easy system to adapt, but it tends to come with the horiable huge DUI or HEI conversion igntion, which is always going backwards on the TFi.


    Any two barrel 289 to 302 CFi can make upwards of 350 hp if those issues above are addressed. It would work on a 351 or 400, but the same issues 1 and 2 apply.

    There are plenty of good 2-bbl to 4bbl intake adaptors which reposition the CFi injectors to aviod back or front cylinder lean or rich conditions.

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    If I was in the USA, I'd use MegaSquirt, and import the 5.0 A9L fuel tables. There are EECIV guys who can take a SD EECIV nad remap it for CFi, but time costs money and Speed Costs dollars, so how much you wanna spend?


    If you don't want to do that, then ask Moates to track down the mapped Speed Density 5.0 1986-1988 Computer, and have the J3 port and SD mapped.


    Box Code starts with DC from 1986 5.0 V8 Mustangs.

    The constants in the defintion have to be changed, the injectors and firing order set up correctly, but its not at all hard when so much of the stuff is 99% the same.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...50#post1855950


    Quote Originally Posted by svocapri
    I tuned an 87 speed density with a Moats Quarterhorse for my Dad a number of years back and he is still driving it weekly today. The car has a Comp Cams Xe264 with 112 degree lobe separation. It also has AFR 164 heads, a ported Explorer intake, and Ford Racking 47pph injectors. The car runs and idles smooth.

    As for tuning, I added timing down low to compensate for the bigger cam and I had to pull fuel in the lower RPM higher load areas of the fuel map to compensate for the lower vacuum at idle and just off idle. The only problem is that when shifting from drive to reverse or vice versa, the sudden loss of load on the engine when passing through neutral causes it to overshoot the idle speed target and close the IAC motor and pull timing just as the transmission is engaging and the engine stalls. This car has a factory stall converter and I suspect a slightly higher stall speed would prevent this, but a brief pause in neutral when shifting from reverse is all it takes to keep it running.

    I forgot to mention, I had SailorBob on the EEC Tuning board generate the Definition file necessary for Binary Editor to be able to modify the Strategy that was in the ECU. I believe the catch code on that speed density automatic computer was DC.

  8. #8

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    Luckily mine has accepted the greater flow without a problem, but I think the OP was looking at popping a modern cfi (Holley sniper) on it.

    The reason I mentioned the distributor is the tfi to sniper is not "supported" or wasn't the last time I checked. If you keep the tfi ignition I would love to hear how it went. Otherwise you will need to add a cast/melonized gear to your new set up to deal with the cam.

    And thanks for the bad news on the 5spd...
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    To the OP. Stinger PiMP as well, since it's microsquirt based and uses TunerStudio.

    Again, Ford was probably a lot more progressive on the CFi than Chevrolet was on the Delco P4 Calpak. GM spent all its time on CrossFire intakes, and fixing the off idle hunt the Z28 5.0 TBi and Corvette 5.7 CrossFires sometimes had. The problems were all due to how they did the MAP sensors and they nailed it by a better Cal Pak system. In all cases, the modern FAST, Sniper and adapted P4 GM are a little bit retarted on working with TFi and EDIS the way MegaSquirt does. Since MegaSquirt is essentially a Ford based concept with GM sensors and the best on line help, then I'd go MS everytime. The industry avoids Ford based systems because like Michelien TRX tires, and Hydropneumatic suspension, the systems that make them work were well patented, and they only get sold off after the 16 years it takes for the patents to certain parts to laps. Croker had to buy the rights to make TRX tires from Michelien. Merceades Benz had to pay Citroen the rights to self leveling the 450SEL 6.9.


    Due to the way the EPA and CARB and BAR hit on little guys who modified factory based EFi systems, Ford will never be able to release a calibration for the 5.0 with roller cam and 96 pound injectors, it just wouldn't happen. Ford faced so much up hill battles with the Government over emissions compliance...there is very little of similarity between the State and share holded business, they are attacked both by lobby groups.





    Back to EECIV for a moment...


    The 5 speed swap is possiable, but the work around for it on stalling is finding a clean signal to the ECM. MS2 will work, so will a later EECIV reflashed with Moates tables to support either VSS or 3.8 CFi IAC, or perhaps just a line of EECIV Feedback carb code to support that vital off idle to 2500 rpm point that covers the lack of full speed signal to the ECM. Its not a "no" or "maybee" its a yes, but what Stratergy?

    All Speed Density cars are a little bit brain dead without a full square wave Vehicle Speed Sensor signal. Chrysler and Mitsubishi used a Karmen Vortex sensor to ensure no signal was lost, later GM cars just had a little more fatness in the fuel delivery, but they had easier to massage fixed tables and less advanced ignition. They had limits on how rich or lean yopu could push the injector.


    I cringe every time I see an MSD or HEI. I'm not anti MSD or GM, just know that the systems for TFi and especially EDIS are very simple, and that Duraspark II down grades require a lot of work to be as good as a TFi can be right out of the box.

    10 years ago, I had a bunch of MS friends, and they helped out with bigger and smaller 2 bbl TBi style systems.

    Ford Motorcraft CFi has always been a little more difficult as the atomisation isn't as good, but on the 5.0 HO, the Bosch Injectors are exceptional and the system sounds So Gooood.

    As another said to my mate Richard back in 2008. 500 cube Caddy with MS2 and TBi

    https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=54149

    Quote Originally Posted by fordconvert » Sun Nov 02, 2008
    The current Megatune software has a VE table predicter - we guessed the HP and Ft-lb numbers and out popped a VE table that was pretty close - close enough for us to easily start and run the vehicle up and down the street.

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is don't be scared of setting it all up - you'll get it running quick enough. The polishing is what takes the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by #19 by fordconvert » Tue Dec 21, 2010
    When looking at downsizing ( or upsizing...added xctasy 8-15-18 ) a system you have 2 issues. First is the drivability. Usually the computer can handle keeping the AFR correctly but you end up with too much throttle response. I have a 2bbl on a 500" motor and I had that problem. I was able to solve it by modifying the throttle linkage but this was a 650cfm system on a larger than average motor. I doubt it would be that easy going down to a 200. The second issue is getting the injectors to dial back how much fuel they dump the injectors only have so much range in them. Think of a garden hose vs. a fire hose with a valve on it. You open both valves for 1/100 of a second which one are you still going to get a lot of fuel from? The TBI style of injectors really have issues with how little fuel they can dump. These are the ones that are larger and mounted in a pod above the throttle bores. They usually run around 15psi. On the GM's going from the 305 to the 350 required different injectors, not because of full load because of idle. Apparently in recent years there has been some advancement in both the size and control of the bosh style multiport injectors and that appears to be the style many of the newer TBI units use.

  10. #10

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    Yeah, not worth it. Makes more sense to just buy another fox with it already in it and leave my gt350 alone ... Just saw a 90 for 2k on Craigslist....
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  11. #11

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    Thank you everyone for all of the valuble information.

    I was going to say that I would be surprised to find out that my engine is not a High Output engine given that it says 5.0 LITER E.F.I. H.O. in bold and black on the air cleaner, then someone shed some light on the matter and cleared that up. (Also, where does the term CFI even come from given that ford called it E.F.I right there on my car???? The only reason I called it CFI was because that's what everyone in the forums calls it, and I didn't want to cause confusion with the EFI from 1986-current.)

    I do believe I'd go the Holley Sniper route rather than trying to teach the CFI unit how to handle upgrades, but if it can be done for less money with MegaSquirt or something else and all the benefits of the Sniper, I'll do that route.

    So the way I understand it, with Ford designing every part of the engine to specifically work with every other part, that would mean I cannot simply replace the intake manifold with the Edelbrock Air-Gap, install a 2bbl carb to 4 bbl manifold adapter, and place the stock CFI unit on top with the factory computer calibration without messing up the air-fuel ratio from one cylinder to another. Is that correct?

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  12. #12

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    You could try. If it doesn't work then just keep going with the sniper. I have really stretched my cfi with gt40 heads, Edelbrock intake, headers, cam etc and it is doing just fine
    I would probably get better performance out of a sniper or a 4bbl but there is no reason not to try. See what you can get away with. If it doesn't work then all you are out is the 2v adapter plate.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  13. #13

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    Central fuel injection is just what Ford called tbi. I kind of like it.

    I wouldn't be afraid of dumping it though and going with a sniper. I am finding the sensors are getting hard to find when they fail. I am pretty sure in 10 years I will have to upgrade due to difficulty in finding replacement parts.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by emerygt350 View Post
    You could try. If it doesn't work then just keep going with the sniper. I have really stretched my cfi with gt40 heads, Edelbrock intake, headers, cam etc and it is doing just fine
    I would probably get better performance out of a sniper or a 4bbl but there is no reason not to try. See what you can get away with. If it doesn't work then all you are out is the 2v adapter plate.
    True, I've spent more than $30 on worse decisions. What's thirty bucks? I can always try to sell it used to get a little bit of cash back from it when I go with Sniper.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by emerygt350 View Post
    I am finding the sensors are getting hard to find when they fail. I am pretty sure in 10 years I will have to upgrade due to difficulty in finding replacement parts.
    I wonder if an issue I've been having is sensor related. When I bought the car, it idled at 1,800 RPM. I bought a bunch of vacuum lines and a vacuum line diagram and plugged everything to where it seemed to make the most sense. Then it idled at about 300 rpm. Obviously that was an issue. I fixed that by adjusting the throttle linkage (I'm not sure of the exact terminology. I adjusted things on both the driver and passenger side of the cfi unit). I got it to idle at about 800 rpm. However, it is VERY inconsistent. Sometimes it will idle beautifully. Other times I need to hold the brake and the gas at the same time to keep it from choking out. More often than not, I end up squealing the tires when the light turns green (usually unintentionally). Yet other times it will idle perfectly for 5 minutes, but by the time minute 6 rolls around, the rpm jumps between 200 rpm and 1500 rpm until it chokes out again.
    Last edited by Branden1995; 08-14-2018 at 06:07 PM.

  16. #16

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    Yeah, there is no idle setting on this cfi. The computer does it with the timing. That wierdness you describe at the end is when it goes open loop (or closed, can never remember which is which). Do you have a code reader? If you are at all planning on going to a sniper or something I wouldn't start chasing sensors at this point. None of them are that expensive but if you replace the 5 or 6 that are the usual suspects you will have paid for a new distributor or a small chunk of the new tbi system.

    A reader is 30 bucks at AutoZone, cheaper online. Sounds like your ECT and maybe the map sensor might be gone.

    And all of them are super easy to replace except the O2 sensor.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  17. #17
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Ford listed the Panther Lincoln and later Fox based Mercury and Ford and Compact Continental version with Standard or optional 5.0's as Central Fuel Injection. That's the Sterling built bigger Foxes, as well as the Fairmont based Compact non Crown Victoria or non Grand Marquis cars.

    It is listed as Electronic Fuel Injection on the Lincoln Mark VII, the LSC Mark VII, the Cougar XR7, the Thunderbird, the Capri RS, Mustang GT, LTD LX, Mercury LTS, but there are Standard Performance 5.0 EECIII Duraspark III (1980 to 1984) and Standard Peformance EECIV TFi versions (1984 and 1985) , so Central Fuel Injection is a generic description for it. Ford used it on the Ford Falcon/Fairmont's with the base Throttle Body EFi, so Central Fuel Injection is again descriptively correct.


    The Mustang GT auto and Capri RS auto got the diiferent firing order camshaft, while the Standard Performance got the stock no HO firing order.

    The EEC IV system employs three different types of fuel metering devices: carburetors, throttle body injectors (referred to as Central Fuel Injection [CFI]), and port fuel injection... First truck Port EFi 5.0 engines were Bank/batch fire for 1985, then Ford introduced Sequential Electronic Fuel Injection (SEFI) on the 5.0 V8, but the Standard Ouput also used the non High Output Firing order.

    The CFi system was didn't care what firing order was used, so it would cope with whatever firing order the cam carried.

  18. #18

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    The ho CFI on the mustang is a much larger barrel diameter than the non-ho offerings as well. Much larger.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  19. #19

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    xctasy, thanks answering my question. emerygt350, I do not have a code reader, but I think I will buy one on Friday. If I upgrade just the intake manifold alone for now, I would like to get the problem sorted, though as long as the problem doesn't worsen I can live with it. My goal for this car isn't exactly street friendliness as I want this car primarily for autocross as well as the occasional trip to the race track such as Road America, Gingerman Raceway, and Blackhawk Farms with the Northwoods Shelby Club. http://www.nwshelbyclub.com/

  20. #20
    FEP Power Member 4-barrel Mike's Avatar
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    FWIW: a new throttle position sensor made a HUGE difference in my '85 HO CFI.

    Mike

  21. #21

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    I autocrossed mine back when it was bone stock. My master cylinder was going but I still managed to almost beat a Prius. It was great fun and I sounded way better than the other cars...
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  22. #22

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    Name:  FB_20160528_14_46_57_Saved_Picture.jpg
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    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  23. #23

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    Sorry it's been so long. Life got in the way. Here's some pictures of my progress so far. Oh, also found out my 1985 cfi engine has a roller cam!!!


    The url link to see my photos --https://photos.app.goo.gl/2iPAAYNAgFstV7TH8

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    Last edited by Branden1995; 06-23-2019 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Lifter valley photo

  24. #24

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    Hey, CFI guys, what is this thing? I'm testing just the manifold swap while I wait for a Holley Sniper. Will the CFI/EECIV know how to run without it?Name:  IMG_20190622_161947.jpg
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  25. #25
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    EGR cooler which picks up vapour from the exhaust heat. I'll post a link to it.

    Its fine.

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