3.8 SC Swap HELP ME!!!

[krzymnky]

This is a shout out to those who have done this swap!

I NEED YOUR HELP!!!

I have seen some cars online that have had this swap into them. I pulled my stock 3.8 out of my 86 mustang and am dropping in a 3.8 SC out of a 89 T-bird.

Simply put. The wiring is a nightmare and my mechanic is being told by the local Ford dealership that it can't be done. There isn't a 3.8 SC T-bird in any of the local junkyards to go off. I need to know how you ran certain wires. Please respond to my email address. We are both so far into this and once this is past we can continue. Thanks.

-Anthony


My email: kuppler68@hotmail.com or just pm me here.



Thank you.

[Ltngdrvr]

Have you looked in here? - www.sccoa.com

Best thing to do is get as many factory wiring diagrams as possible along with a factory wiring harness and computer.

Sort through the BS wires that have nothing to do with the actual operation of the motor. Only worry about wiring the power to ecm and ignition and fuel pump and don't worry about the emission BS.

I guarantee you that it can be done.

[krzymnky]

Have you looked in here? - www.sccoa.com

Best thing to do is get as many factory wiring diagrams as possible along with a factory wiring harness and computer.

Sort through the BS wires that have nothing to do with the actual operation of the motor. Only worry about wiring the power to ecm and ignition and fuel pump and don't worry about the emission BS.

I guarantee you that it can be done.

If you can contact my mechanic for me that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


I have tried and tried again to get onto that forum and for some reason I never end up being able to post. I can sign in and read posts but cannot leave them. So I have given up on that website as their moderators and owners of it never respond to my emails for help. Thanks
-Anthony

[84ttopnotch]

i had a 89 supercharged xr7 an never got it to run right. i sold it to a guy that had a hand full of them. he parts them out an keeps spares for his 2 he drives. do a search on super coupe to find other sites, i'm sure the info is out there. too bad it can't be converted to a carb.

[krzymnky]

yeah that would be nice to be able to carb it and still have the supercharger. it'd make a ton less work. if anyone has heard from FEP member Twistin tell him I'm in need of his expertise and wisdom.

Thanks

[Chuck W]

It's an EEC4 system....it's not magical or mysterious.

I suggest YOU take the time to look at wiring diagrams of both cars and sort through the harnesses.

I'm always amazed when people start a project like this with no idea of what is going on or doing any research BEFORE the car is in pieces.

[slow84lx]

yeah that would be nice to be able to carb it and still have the supercharger. it'd make a ton less work. if anyone has heard from FEP member Twistin tell him I'm in need of his expertise and wisdom.

Thanks

You can't send him a pm yourself?

[krzymnky]

So basically you are telling me that the shop that is doing my motor swap and the lead parts guy from the local Ford dealership are morons? If so, I can deal with that. I'm in the Marine Corps and don't have the time to do this project so I took it to a shop to have the work done. I've tried to stay as hands on as I can, but this wiring harness is kicking his rear end and I want my damn car back. So, on that note any advise with this would be nice, rather than stating the obvious of looking at the wiring diagrams. According the my mechanic, he looked at a t-bird(non-supercoupe) and saw that it had 3 fuse boxes and one of them was linked and located by the computer on the pass. side of the car. Is that something I need to locate parts wise and add to my car, too?

Thanks for any legitimate help. I know you guys are loaded with tons of information. I did my homework knowing this can be done, it's just that some help would be nice rather than paying out more and more cash as I'm already into this swap $1300 plus what it will take to finish this.
-Anthony

[krzymnky]

You can't send him a pm yourself?

He is rarely on this site and there are a couple guys who actually know him personally. They have better ties to reaching him than I do. Don't you think I would have done that in the first place? I mean I know that the world has it's fair share of idiots, but I'm not on that list.

For those whom wish to help, please do. For those who want to state the obvious and leave snide remarks please stop wasting my time.

I know enough about working on my own cars, but this is the first time I have had/gotten anything done major to this car or any of mine for that fact. If you can reach down and grab a hold and realize you were new to this once too, maybe then you could leave some helpful replies. Thanks for starting to piss me off.

[slow84lx]

He is rarely on this site and there are a couple guys who actually know him personally. They have better ties to reaching him than I do. Don't you think I would have done that in the first place? I mean I know that the world has it's fair share of idiots, but I'm not on that list.

For those whom wish to help, please do. For those who want to state the obvious and leave snide remarks please stop wasting my time.

I know enough about working on my own cars, but this is the first time I have had/gotten anything done major to this car or any of mine for that fact. If you can reach down and grab a hold and realize you were new to this once too, maybe then you could leave some helpful replies. Thanks for starting to piss me off.

I wasn't being snide, bro. I was stating the obvious as this thread comes across as if you are asking others to do for you what you can do for yourself. Not trying to piss you off. You asked for someone to call your mechanic for you, contact another member for you, and to do your research for you and hand it over to you.

The advice already given in this thread by two others concerning the wiring diagrams is the best advice to give you but you are ignoring it. When it comes right down to it the wiring diagrams are going to have to be read, followed, and tested by someone experienced in automotive wiring. This and only this is going to get your car running. This is not difficult but may be time consuming. When you are paying someone else for their time it will be expensive. This part of your project is the most complex but you seem to have done no research before dumping this off on an unsuspecting shop and then thinking they are incompetent.

Your shop and Ford dealer are not morons but this is not their area of expertise. They follow the premise of removing and replacing parts following a regimen (and a manual) they have followed for years. Get them out of that box and they are lost......or say it can't be done.

Your project can be done and isn't as complicated as you are being told. You being hands on will get it done. The methods you are currently using will render you a car that never runs again due to frustration or lack of knowledge / too expensive.

Best of luck with your project. I truly mean this.

Jonathan

[krzymnky]

I wasn't being snide, bro. I was stating the obvious as this thread comes across as if you are asking others to do for you what you can do for yourself. Not trying to piss you off. You asked for someone to call your mechanic for you, contact another member for you, and to do your research for you and hand it over to you.

The advice already given in this thread by two others concerning the wiring diagrams is the best advice to give you but you are ignoring it. When it comes right down to it the wiring diagrams are going to have to be read, followed, and tested by someone experienced in automotive wiring. This and only this is going to get your car running. This is not difficult but may be time consuming. When you are paying someone else for their time it will be expensive. This part of your project is the most complex but you seem to have done no research before dumping this off on an unsuspecting shop and then thinking they are incompetent.

Your shop and Ford dealer are not morons but this is not their area of expertise. They follow the premise of removing and replacing parts following a regimen (and a manual) they have followed for years. Get them out of that box and they are lost......or say it can't be done.

Your project can be done and isn't as complicated as you are being told. You being hands on will get it done. The methods you are currently using will render you a car that never runs again due to frustration or lack of knowledge / too expensive.

Best of luck with your project. I truly mean this.

Jonathan

Sorry about that. I just want my damn car and am pulling my hair out as I get deeper into this. I don't understand wiring as much as I'd like to. My mechanic has already hooked up the bottom of the harness to the car but when it comes to the computer and some plug banks up top of the engine it gets to be a pain in the rear trying to figure out what can/can't be left alone. He needs some advise and asked if I could help out. He knows it can be done, the Ford guy sounds like a retard, and I'm doing what I can. My mechanic does do good work and does custom builds, it's just the wiring he is having trouble tracking down. Simply he asked if I could help him out a little so I can save some money on this. This project has been ongoing since mid-October. So now you can see why I'm getting pissed off. 6 months $1300and still no cruising in my vert and the weather is warming up.

[In2Fords]

Sorry man but if the guy you hired is asking you for help cause he cant figure it out then I dont think he is the right man for this job.
I was stationed there and know there are a ton of worthless mechanic shops out there, dealt with plenty of them myself. I bet you could find a shop that could complete the job better. If you guy doesnt have any wiring diagram schematics and doesnt know how to hook up this harness why'd he take the job? if its a buddy thats helping out then thats one thing but if this is an actual shop I'd be looking else where. If yur a E1-E3 it could be a shop trying to string you along for as much as possible. They know your still young and have a steady check and you'll more then likely get deployed before you can take any action against them.

good luck with your project Devil Dog
Jeremy

[82mustang]

i would check ebay and everywhere else for a factory service manual for the supercoupe, get good wiring diagrams and go to town.. the harness can be sorted through off the car, on your dining room table... ready to put in the car and shorten the wires that need it and hide accordingly

[84ttopnotch]

the non supercoupe manual is worthless too, even though they are both 3.8's they are very different. the sc had crank an cam sensors an computer controlled spark distribution that the n/a doesn't have.

[SVOKip]

I don't know anything about this site, but it does look like they have a pretty good forum. Someone there might be able to help you.

http://www.3.8mustang.com/wiki/Main_Page

[krzymnky]

thanks guys. i'll take a look at your suggestions.

[FuturaGuy]

There's a guy in Enfield, CT who has done this swap into a '95 Mustang. He told me he spent a lot of time under the dashboard testing wiring before he soldered all the connections. I have his name and telephone number if you want to send me a PM. Before I volunteer his services, I'd suggest you try a couple of sources. You need the wiring diagram for your '86 and the wiring diagram for the '89 SC. Sometimes Mustangs Unlimited in Atlanta (888-229-2929) has the Electrical/Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual (EVTM) for various years of Mustangs. You could also try www.helminc.com. At the same time, pick up an ohmmeter to test electrical continuity. I got an el cheapo at Radio Shack for about $15 and I'd be lost without it.

Everything "ChuckW" and "slow84lx" told you about wiring is true. You'll have to accept that this project will take a lot longer than you anticipated. (Hope you're not headed for The Big Kitty Litter Box in the near future.) If you don't know how to read circuit diagrams, you might try asking some of the electricians in your Engineer battalion. A lot of engineers are car guys anyway, including some of the officers (not all of them are dumb).

I'll add 2 more bits of advice. Put everything that you're doing down on paper before you do the actual work. That way you'll have a record of what you did and will be able to work on the car in the future. Second, don't believe any hearsay about the electrical system. "My buddy has a friend who said..." doesn't cut it. The only way to make sure where a wire goes is to test it yourself and keep in mind shop manuals are sometimes (often?) wrong.

Good luck with your project.

[Ltngdrvr]

Here's a wiring diagram for the ecm on a 89 super coupe. This will tell you a lot.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachme...9&d=1164814439

[krzymnky]

Thanks. Now I just have to go get a printer cartridge. I still don't know why I can't post on sccoa. Poor management is all I can figure. Thanks again. If anyone else has anything it is very much appreciated.

[gt88]

After playing with these for a while, I *HIGHLY* recommend the advice of the factory EVTM manuals- concise, easy to follow, and broken down into sections- ebay has EVTMs fairly regularly, could be had for a good price.

Now, for the unsolicited professional help- take these manuals to your local copy machine store, and ask for help to blow up these diagrams- you'll need them to look the other way, as they aren't supposed to reprint copyrighted material, but most of those guys will do it.

Now, take those copies, find yourself a good sized set of fine tip color markers, sit down with a beer or six and color trace each wiring line with the color it's supposed to be!

in other words, if it says it's a blue/red wire, trace over the line with a blue and a red marker- I cant tell you how many guys lose their ability to focus their eyes when reading a standard black and white diagram- plus, you doing this for the guy will keep you involved, and him interested.

As others have noted- the EEC4 system is pretty basic, and easily manipulated- this explains the tons of guys swapping efi into older coupes and such- if your mechanic is simply swapping in a relatively stock s/c motor setup, his main concern is running the power and ground sources correctly. His real headache will be tying in the information from the newer S/C motor to the older gauge cluster.

I'd say buy the guy a beer, and tell him to relax, step back and look at the overall picture- as a guy that knows here, it's not that hard- I play with these older cars as a way to relax from working in the new bmw's-

Good luck!

[FuturaGuy]

After playing with these for a while, I *HIGHLY* recommend the advice of the factory EVTM manuals- concise, easy to follow, and broken down into sections- ebay has EVTMs fairly regularly, could be had for a good price.

Now, for the unsolicited professional help- take these manuals to your local copy machine store, and ask for help to blow up these diagrams- you'll need them to look the other way, as they aren't supposed to reprint copyrighted material, but most of those guys will do it.

Now, take those copies, find yourself a good sized set of fine tip color markers, sit down with a beer or six and color trace each wiring line with the color it's supposed to be!

in other words, if it says it's a blue/red wire, trace over the line with a blue and a red marker- I cant tell you how many guys lose their ability to focus their eyes when reading a standard black and white diagram- plus, you doing this for the guy will keep you involved, and him interested.

Great minds think alike. This is EXACTLY what I did - minus the beer - when wiring my car. I put everything in a loose leaf notebook, which my then-wife sarcastically called "The Sacred Scripture", so I have a complete record of the electrical system. I can troubleshoot the system, and an experienced Ford mechanic using my notes could also fix it. Taking it one step further, I'm making a manual using the same format as the EVTM and showing the differences between the finished car and the factory EVTM. Eventually, I'll put this all on AutoCAD, and print 3 copies - one to go in the car in a plastic envelope, one to keep at home, and one in the safe deposit box along with the AutoCAD CD's.

[84ttopnotch]

futuraguy, you should make a 4th copy an send it to the OP

[gt88]

Great minds think alike. This is EXACTLY what I did - minus the beer - when wiring my car. I put everything in a loose leaf notebook, which my then-wife sarcastically called "The Sacred Scripture", so I have a complete record of the electrical system. I can troubleshoot the system, and an experienced Ford mechanic using my notes could also fix it. Taking it one step further, I'm making a manual using the same format as the EVTM and showing the differences between the finished car and the factory EVTM. Eventually, I'll put this all on AutoCAD, and print 3 copies - one to go in the car in a plastic envelope, one to keep at home, and one in the safe deposit box along with the AutoCAD CD's.

It's all gone wrong if you don't at least OPEN a beer, and maybe spill a little on the carpet- then the electrical gods will smile on you!

Oh, and 84ttopnotch, I don't think he's done this actual swap, he's just acknowledging a proven diagram mapping method!

[krzymnky]

if anyone has a sccoa forum account please bring it to their attention that i get this same message everytime i try to join their forums with no following email confirmations:

Thank you for registering, krzymnky. Your account has been submitted for moderation by an administrator and will be activated shortly. You will be notified by email when this happens. To return to the forums, click here.


This has to be the 20th time I have attempted to join their site. Same crap different day. I just think if someone could bring it up to a moderator my issues could be solved.

About the EVTM's I just have to wait for payday. I saw on Ebay that there was one for the T-Birds but as for my mustang....better keep wishing. They only had them for Taurus',Tempo's, and Aerostars. Bet those mustang ones are hard to come by. Thanks y'all for the input.

[gt88]

Ya know, just because you're a jarhead and all, and Marines are usually kind enough to marry all the ugly women (Us old Army guys really appreciate you!!), I'm gonna help you out on that evtm stuff- PM sent!!