3.8 SC Swap HELP ME!!!

[FuturaGuy]

Well, the shop that was doing all the work backed out today. They want me to come get the car take some money back and go find another shop. I'm pissed beyond belief with no clue where to go now. In need of someone who knows how to do wiring, but that is a like finding the proverbial needle in the hay. So this project is dead in the water for the time being.

Don't give up yet. The only way you're going to get the wiring done is to do it yourself. Maybe Jay Leno can afford to have other people build his cars for him but the rest of us can't and we just had to learn how to do it ourselves. Keep in mind your new-found friends here on FEP want to see you succeed and we're here to help. We're not trying to bust your chops.

Electricity, especially a direct current system in a car, is not anything mystical and it's not that difficult, just tedious sometimes. Think of electricity as being like water flowing thru a pipe. Current is the amount of water, the flow. Voltage is the pressure, and resistance is the size of the pipe. Ohm's Law says current is equal to voltage divided by resistance so make sure you always have a resistance between the voltage source and ground. Otherwise current goes to infinity, voltage divided by zero. SHORT CIRCUIT!!!!

Every component, be it a light, an instrument, a motor, a coil, whatever, has current flowing thru it in a loop from the source (battery or alternator) back to ground. There's a Gozinta and a Gozouta. The current goes in, there's resistance of some sort (switches do NOT have resistance), and the current goes out at a lower voltage. Ford is fairly consistent with their wiring systems, using the same circuit number and color codes for wiring. Study it and work it system by system. Start with something simple, like the starter circuit. Using the EVTM's for both your car and the donor car, trace where the current goes starting at the battery until it goes thru the starter and goes to ground and then figure out where you need to make the connection between your car and the new engine's wiring. Do the same with the ignition system, the alternator, instruments, the lights, etc., one system at at time. AND WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN!!! If you take it one piece at a time, it's not that bad. Trust me. And never be afraid to ask for help from the experts, the electricians in your Engineer battalion or the motor pool.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[slow84lx]

Don't give up yet. The only way you're going to get the wiring done is to do it yourself. Maybe Jay Leno can afford to have other people build his cars for him but the rest of us can't and we just had to learn how to do it ourselves. Keep in mind your new-found friends here on FEP want to see you succeed and we're here to help. We're not trying to bust your chops.

Electricity, especially a direct current system in a car, is not anything mystical and it's not that difficult, just tedious sometimes. Think of electricity as being like water flowing thru a pipe. Current is the amount of water, the flow. Voltage is the pressure, and resistance is the size of the pipe. Ohm's Law says current is equal to voltage divided by resistance so make sure you always have a resistance between the voltage source and ground. Otherwise current goes to infinity, voltage divided by zero. SHORT CIRCUIT!!!!

Every component, be it a light, an instrument, a motor, a coil, whatever, has current flowing thru it in a loop from the source (battery or alternator) back to ground. There's a Gozinta and a Gozouta. The current goes in, there's resistance of some sort (switches do NOT have resistance), and the current goes out at a lower voltage. Ford is fairly consistent with their wiring systems, using the same circuit number and color codes for wiring. Study it and work it system by system. Start with something simple, like the starter circuit. Using the EVTM's for both your car and the donor car, trace where the current goes starting at the battery until it goes thru the starter and goes to ground and then figure out where you need to make the connection between your car and the new engine's wiring. Do the same with the ignition system, the alternator, instruments, the lights, etc., one system at at time. AND WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN!!! If you take it one piece at a time, it not that bad. Trust me. And never be afraid to ask for help from the experts, the electricians in you Engineer battalion or the motor pool.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Well said FuturaGuy!

[krzymnky]

Thanks guys. This site has been my Bible since buying this car back in 2005, but only recently has this site helped in more ways then I imagined. I will keep all you up to date and definately keep pushing on this thing. Thanks again.
-Anthony

[plstktnkr2]

did you ever get that starter working?

[krzymnky]

did you ever get that starter working?

yes, I just need to go get a new starter solenoid

[Ltngdrvr]

Well, the shop that was doing all the work backed out today. They want me to come get the car take some money back and go find another shop. I'm pissed beyond belief with no clue where to go now. In need of someone who knows how to do wiring, but that is a like finding the proverbial needle in the hay. So this project is dead in the water for the time being.

Bring it to Texas and leave it with me and I will get it done. Might take a while though.

[86 50CPRI]

I know this is ancient, but it sounds like the shop did you a favor by backing out. What ever happened with this?

[ID89GT]

Haha funny I find this thread on here. I have this car now lol. Well he still owns it, im just helping him on it. Still needs wiring all done. Starter was toast and he had the wrong starter so now have the correct mini starter setup. Been looking around for info on the swap. Wiring will be the hardest part though thats for sure.

[Haystack]

I think that this sort of swap would be a ton of fun if you had the time and place to work on it.

Few things, the bigger starter will probably work fine as long as it has the correct offset to match the flywheel. If you try to jam a 3/4" offset into a 3/8" offset bell housing, the gears will not unmesh when the car starts. The sc has quite a few weird quirks compared to almost any other computer system, but it still relies on the same basic principal's.

I'd love to see the swap in progress, and finished. Let us know if you need anything.

[plstktnkr2]

I would suggest a full copy of the haynes' manuals , all factory S/C manuals, EVTM for the S/C, and whatever you can find. I am now moving battery to the trunk, running two cables to make the "melding" of the harnesses easier. Feel free to call me if you have any questions. (301-676-9292) and I will explain or send pics what ever you need.
Rick

[ID89GT]

Actually I do have a couple questions on wiring and some connectors I can't seem to locate.

Update on the car..got starter replaced, new fender mounted solenoid, all new belts and O2 sensors. Car turned over tonight by turning the key for the first time with the Super coupe engine

[plstktnkr2]

BTW, YAY for progress !!! Ok, which connectors do you need found ?
Rick

[ID89GT]

I will take pictures and post them. They are all pretty close to that computer that mounts in the engine bay on the passenger side of the car.

[plstktnkr2]

Ok , i'll be here, lol
Rick

[ID89GT]

Okay sorry for the delay, phone wasn't letting me upload them so had to transfer them to the computer.



This is the harness where they are all located at. Thats the computer that would usually mount to the passenger side strut tower on the Thunderbird.





These two connectors are right next to each other. The bigger plug has bigger wire going to it, probably a 12 or 14 gauge. 6 wires in each connector. I can get wire colors if it helps.



This is a single wire off the alternator harness right where it hooks to the starter solenoid.



This is a single black/orange wire. Pretty thick wire, my guess would be 12 gauge. Possibly for the fan? I can't find it on my diagram, or im just looking at the wrong stuff.

[ID89GT]

And then I have these 3 wires. The connector has been broken off or them removed from it from before. They are also probably 12 or 14 gauge wiring, and is in the harness that goes up to the computer on strut tower.



Tried to label so you can see where the stuff is.

[ID89GT]

The engine and harness are supposed to be out of an 89 according to him.

[plstktnkr2]

Ok the box in picture 1 is the integrated relay control module, (not a computer) yes you need that.
picture 2, those connectors are known as "C149" and "C109". give me some color codes for the other wires. You do have the harness for the headlights do you not? The connector for the fan is an OVAL shaped 3 wire connector, according to my 1989 EVTSM fan motor callouts are:

Black (ground)

Brown / Yellow (low speed)

Brown/ Orange (high speed)

I hope this helps
Rick
.

[ID89GT]

I do not have the headlight harness. All he has is the engine harness. Is that all the two six wire plugs are for? The 3 wires without the plug must be for the fan then since they match your colors you gave. And I pmed you back

[krzymnky]

It's been a long uphill battle with this project with plenty of life events between the start of this and where I am now in this project. Been out of the Marine Corps for a couple years and stayed faithful to my car and this horrid project I started years ago. Plaid $1300 for shipping it from NC to WA as an inop car and finally I found someone who knows what the hell he's doing. Going to college, working, and family life is my daily struggle in finding time and extra money for this project. But I haven't given up hope that it will run one day soon enough. I do have a few questions about transmissions. I've been talked into dropping a T5 into the car, currently a C5 is in it. We are on the hunt for a manual bell housing for a 5.0 as we have the trans, driveline, and clutch pedal from an 88 2.3T car. Does anyone have an extra they'd be willing to part with? Also, we are trying to figure out what flywheel we need. We're both doing more research and luckily have all data at our disposal but with the wealth of knowledge here maybe y'all might know and save us time running around.

I sincerely appreciate everyone who has helped me on this site over the years on this project. I was hosed pretty badly by 4 shops in NC and I now have it local in WA state with a highly trusted family member. Again thanks for keeping the faith with me.

[plstktnkr2]

You can get a T-5 and bell out of a Supercoupe, use a 5spd computer. the 2.3 stuff may not work . You also may track down a 2000 Mustang V6 -3.8 with a T-5 and get flywheel back, and driveshaft.

[krzymnky]

I thought supercoupes came with a T45 or m5r2 for manual transmissions? At least that's what I've read up on. Wasn't too sure about the newer stuff fitting so thank you for the insight on the 2000 mustang stuff. That's going to open up more options for parts. Also didn't think I'd need a computer for the transmission swap as I'm going to manual from automatic. So now I'll hunt around to see what else I can dig up. Thank you again

[roadkill]

I thought supercoupes came with a T45 or m5r2 for manual transmissions? At least that's what I've read up on. Wasn't too sure about the newer stuff fitting so thank you for the insight on the 2000 mustang stuff. That's going to open up more options for parts. Also didn't think I'd need a computer for the transmission swap as I'm going to manual from automatic. So now I'll hunt around to see what else I can dig up. Thank you again

According to the parts catalog SC's came with the M5R2.

[roadkill]

double post.

[Haystack]

I used a m5od f-150 flywheel and pressure plate behind a sn-95 3.8 t-5 when I did my t-5 swap. The m5od is the same length as a t-5 and uses the same sort of stuff. You can also swap to a s-10 tailshaft housing and use a t-5 with an almost stock shifter location to the m5od trans. Just make sure the flywheel and pressure plate and flywheel match and you are all good.

Supercouple m5od's are actually different then the f-150 and mazda/ranger trans. Slightly different gear ratios and supposedly slightly beefed up.