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Thread: evap components

  1. #51
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    thanks, jeff. i think i have it all sorted out now.

    cale

  2. #52
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    i just wanted to post up a quick update.

    i got the entire system installed a while ago but just got the car on the road recently.

    the difference is amazing. the car always stunk inside while sitting at lights, but i thought it was due to having no cats and the exhaust blowing in. no, it was that uncapped vapor hose tucked in the fender. my girlfriend who didn't even know what i did to the car over the winter, aside from rebuilding the transmission even said "wow, the car doesn't smell bad anymore."

    driving it, there are no drivability problems. i just went out in the garage. the car is sitting there and i can't smell any fuel. man it stunk before, sweet!

    i hid the lines in the fender so it looks pretty clean.

    thanks to all that helped me figure this out.

    cale

  3. #53

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    I am trying to get my EVAP system working properly on my '85 GT, and I found this post on a search. Unfortunately, my 1985 Mustang is actually missing the valve, so I have to get a new one.

    It seems these delay valves are color-coded to their function. Is the "brown delay valve" that goes in the line between your distributor vacuum source and the purge valve, (teed into the line to the distributor) supposed to be brown/black or brown/white?
    Last edited by RickFury; 12-13-2010 at 11:06 AM.

  4. #54

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    On my carbed '85, the delay valve is black/brown.

    The purpose of the delay valve is to slow the vacuum to the purge valves, so that they
    don't open during throttle transitions.

    There are basically four types of delay valves used in Fords. The first three types are
    identical, apart from nipple sizes, and the direction of flow relative to the colored vs
    black (or white) side. The third type has delay in both flow directions. Within each of
    these types, you'll also have differences in delay timing, which is where the actual color
    starts to matter. Unfortunately, I don't have a chart that lists the color codes.

    In practical terms, I wouldn't worry too much about whether you have the exact delay
    valve that was originally used, especially if you're running it off distributor ported vacuum.
    (The factory purge system ran off EGR vacuum.)
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  5. #55

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    Thank you, JACook.

    Here is a link to the chart for all the different delay vlaves:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_delay_valve

    In checking my parts stash, I found that I already have a green/black delay valve. According to the chart, here is a comparison of the correct brown/black delay valve compared to the green/black one I already have:

    1.) brown/black: Time (seconds) = 20, Threshold (+/-seconds) = 4, Direction = Forward
    2.) green/black: Time (seconds) = 200, Threshold (+/-seconds) = 40, Direction = Forward

    Unfortunately, there is not much of a description on how to read this chart to compare different valves. Can you tell me what the difference would be in using the brown/black valve versus a green/black valve?
    Last edited by RickFury; 12-15-2010 at 01:45 PM.

  6. #56

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    Well, first, there is no universal color code that applies across manufacturers. So knowing
    what the colors mean for a Jeep, won't help when you're working on a Ford.

    Without having measured the valves, I'll suggest that if you're running the purge system
    off EGR vacuum, you might want to find a brown/black delay valve. (Though I'm not sure
    it's really that important.) If you're running the purge system off distributor ported vacuum,
    then the green/black valve may be more appropriate.

    This admittedly unscientific suggestion is based on the type of vacuum each valve was
    originally used with. But the purge system is not so critical, as long as you get canister
    purge when the engine is at cruise. What's more important is that you use the orifice in
    the main purge line. Without the orifice you may get lean surging at cruise.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  7. #57

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    Thanks again, JACook.

    My EGR has been removed, and I am running the EVAP system off of distributor ported vacuum. Everything seems to work as it should so far. The only thing I am running into is some slight "stuttering" when I am accelerating at part throttle.

    I tried the green/black delay valve I have and it actually seemed to help it a little bit, but it is still sometimes there if I accelerate slowly. I think if I had a valve that would "delay" just a little bit longer than the one I have, it would solve the problem. I blew into the valve before I used it to make sure it still worked, and it seemed to "delay" only a few seconds. According to the chart, though, the green/black valve has a time of 200 seconds. But I don't understand what the "threshold" means.

  8. #58

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    I would be looking at the orifice that goes in the purge line between manifold vacuum, and
    the canister. If you don't have an orifice, or if it's too large, you'll notice it at part-throttle.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  9. #59
    FEP Supporter cmgramza's Avatar
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    All of this information will be helpful when I properly connect my charcoal canister and vacuum lines soon.

    Thanks to JACook and all the other posters.
    Have
    86 Coupe LX Conversion 5.0 5spd
    70 Mustang Conv. My 1st car. Still have it.
    70 Ranchero 302 Auto
    07 Focus daily driver


    Totaled
    70 Ranchero 351C Auto
    85 Coupe 1 of 62 Sand Beige

  10. #60
    FEP Supporter cmgramza's Avatar
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    I have one of the original canisters on my car. The guy I sold it to took of all he could see, he missed the canister in the wheel well. It has the two main ports but not the other small ports. A previously posted picture show the valve I have in one of the main ports, and a cap on the other. Is it possible to use the main port F shaped fitting and hook up the purge valve to it?

    Would I hook the small, top port on the connector to the tank and the lower, larger port to the purge valve?

    Does any of that make sense? I'd rather buy as few parts as possible.
    Have
    86 Coupe LX Conversion 5.0 5spd
    70 Mustang Conv. My 1st car. Still have it.
    70 Ranchero 302 Auto
    07 Focus daily driver


    Totaled
    70 Ranchero 351C Auto
    85 Coupe 1 of 62 Sand Beige

  11. #61
    FEP Supporter cmgramza's Avatar
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    Cancel that last post. I forgot I purchased a second canister and it has the small and large ports, as well as the main openings that I need to cap.

    I'll be able to use all the info provided above.

    Thanks.
    Have
    86 Coupe LX Conversion 5.0 5spd
    70 Mustang Conv. My 1st car. Still have it.
    70 Ranchero 302 Auto
    07 Focus daily driver


    Totaled
    70 Ranchero 351C Auto
    85 Coupe 1 of 62 Sand Beige

  12. #62
    FEP Supporter cmgramza's Avatar
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    So I'm putting all of the valves and new vacuum hose in tomorrow.

    Is there one place better than another for the location of the purge valve?

    Engine compartment or fenderwell?
    Cable tied or free hanging?

    Thanks for your input.
    Have
    86 Coupe LX Conversion 5.0 5spd
    70 Mustang Conv. My 1st car. Still have it.
    70 Ranchero 302 Auto
    07 Focus daily driver


    Totaled
    70 Ranchero 351C Auto
    85 Coupe 1 of 62 Sand Beige

  13. #63
    FEP Supporter cmgramza's Avatar
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    bump. .
    Have
    86 Coupe LX Conversion 5.0 5spd
    70 Mustang Conv. My 1st car. Still have it.
    70 Ranchero 302 Auto
    07 Focus daily driver


    Totaled
    70 Ranchero 351C Auto
    85 Coupe 1 of 62 Sand Beige

  14. #64
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    mine is back behind the fender apron along with all of my lines. i zip tied it where it needed to be supported.

    cale

  15. #65

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    I realize this is an old thread but it keeps coming up in my searches to make heads or tails of the vacuum system.

    I found this list of FORD vacuum delay valves which may be more relevant to our cars than the list previously linked to.

    Spark Delay Valve
    Time in Seconds
    Color Code I.D. Number Minimum Maximum
    White/Brown 2 2 5
    White/Green 20 9 20
    Black/Grey 1 1 4
    Black/Brown 2 2 5
    Black/White 5 4 12
    Black/Yellow 10 5.8 14
    Black/Blue 15 7 16
    Black/Green 20 9 20
    Black/Orange 30 13 24
    Black/Red 40 15 28


    The list was found here, http://www.1bad6t.com/Maverick/repai...ntrols_02.html

  16. #66

  17. #67

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    Would you happen to remember where the 2 solenoid valve ground wire attach to ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GTJerry View Post
    Cale - Hope this doesn't confuse things, but here is a photo of the tubing and components as it was removed from my 85 parts car (Holley 4180C). Having a little problem with labeling, so I hope everything is legible.

    The only thing I can't remember for sure is where the hose with the red tape in the middle of the photo goes. I think it went through the fire wall and toward the rear of the car so I'm thinking it might go to the gas tank?

    Please jump in Jeff if I have missed something here.

    Jerry



  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by airplanedriver View Post
    Would you happen to remember where the 2 solenoid valve ground wire attach to ?
    Mine attach to a threaded boss on the front of the passenger-side cylinder head, but it's not crucial. Just need
    a clean spot with a bolt size that fits the terminal.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    Mine attach to a threaded boss on the front of the passenger-side cylinder head, but it's not crucial. Just need
    a clean spot with a bolt size that fits the terminal.
    Ok thanks, I guess this is the bolt, because the wires are too short for any other one in that area.

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  20. #70

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    Damn, I was hoping this would be a simple hook up.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  21. #71
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    You've got some other options


    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    You can get a new "vented" gas cap., and block or plug the vapor valve seal That might help you out easily.

    I'd personally follow Cale's method, fit the Purge Valve, charcoal canister, and the two delay vales with the two prong connector to the charcoal canister.


    Charcoal canisters vary in position. My two hole 81 was hidden under the fender skirt.





    You could use a later E3 code 1983 model year three hole Charcoal canister if you capped the third small hole.

    You need some way to vent the tank. It does not have to be a carbon canister, but it does need a vent.

    With no vent, as gas is pumped out of the tank the volume above the fuel increases. That causes a vacuum to form which will tend to reduce the effectiveness of you fuel pump and can cause vapor lock. If you don't do anything else, either get a vented cap or drill a very small vent hole in your current fuel tank cap.

  22. #72
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Here is what should have been present on your PaceCar
    Quote Originally Posted by Indypacecar View Post
    It runs to the charcoal canister on my 1979 pacecar.

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