! California specific! new exhaust laws!

[anthonydalrymple]

corey is right Tony, it is NEVER ok to eliminate cats. Replacement of the h pipe?? Sure in a stock type configuration, but elimination of 2 cats? never.

here we go again..... The 4-cat stock h-pipe has four cats; 2ea "precats" & 2ea 2-way cats. Due to catalytic converter technology improvements; there are 3-way monolith catalytic converters that do both jobs all in one. They are legal because they function better than the old O.E. converters & explains how Magnaflow is able to get the California E.O. number assigned....

Guys, do me a favor. Go to the ARB website & read the 20 pages of "legaleze" yourselves....

[50 Proof]

n/m see post below

[anthonydalrymple]

Tony, in order to install the x-pipe with these new and improved cats, you need to remove two cats. Like I said before, it's the cats that are carb certified, not the whole entire x-pipe or h-pipe. Look up the carb e.o. numbers under exhaust systems. There are not carb certified x or h-pipes sold by magnaflow, they only sell carb certified catalytic converters.

California Vehicle Code Section 27156



Fox bodies come with 4 cats, the magnaflow pipe only has 2 cats. Original design has 4 cats.

Now, ARB's website says the following...



http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...ftermktcat.htm

So basically the magnaflow cats are exempt from this vehicle code but remember, it's not the h/x-pipe that has the carb e.o. number, it's the cats that are carb exempt. You can replace each of your four cats one by one with a carb exempt magnaflow cat, but you can't alter the original four cat design.

Okay, I understand what's going on now.... You don't have the email correspondence I had in the past with the ARB board member. Whether they left out this specific info i stated on the ARB site or not; I don't know because I'm not going to read all that stuff again if I can help it I'll see if I can dredge up the correspondance info from the archives on this forum or another to link or post......

[50 Proof]

Tony, I apologize, I am wrong. Read through the following for the technical details

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-193-14.pdf

[Wolfie351]

I think there may be a bit of over-analyzing going on here. I got tired of the California bashing so I didn't read every post, so forgive me if I repeat what anyone else has said.

First of all, it has ALWAYS been illegal to remove a functioning catalytic converter. The law has ALWAYS said, you must have the same number of cats as from the factory. All cats were considered factory replacement parts in California (like a spark plug, you don't need an E.O for that), they never had CARB E.O. #s until recently. I do not know if this is now required, or just good marketing. But, looking through some parts catalogs, I do see 49 state cats and 50 states cats...none of which are showing CARB #s

True dual vs Y pipe. The smog tech books I've seen do not differentiate the two. The books say how many rear exhaust exits there are and how many cats. Can anyone point to where this has changed?

This new Jan 1 thing seems to simply enforce a law that was already on the books. It also seems to emphasis record keeping for warranty purposes (that's pro-consumer, not anti-hot rod). True, it will be harder to get exhaust work done, but I never really understood why people fret so much about exhaust tone, x-pipe vs h-pipe, etc. The old saying goes, there are some people who buy exhausts to make their slow cars sound like they're fast. The others buy them to make their fast cars quiet.

In any case, with today's technology, it is soooooo easy to build a fast AND smog friendly Mustang, there really is no excuse not to be legal. Us carburetor guys do have a harder time with it, but it can be done. I shouldn't be one to talk, I have a 351w that I hate having to get smogged. It looks factory stock, built 4180, complete with dual snorkel air cleaner and makes around 400hp and a crap load more torque. But, that is my choice to run that risk and I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me when I do eventually run into legality problems. All that said, it runs cleaner than the day it came off the assembly line. If I do have trouble in the future, I will end up with an EFI swap which will open up even more legal hp possibilities.

[anthonydalrymple]

Tony, I apologize, I am wrong. Read through the following for the technical details

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-193-14.pdf

No worries mate. If they spelled everything out in normal English instead of B.S. & "lawyer speak"; interpritation of the information would be allot easier....

[v8only]

I got partway into the second page of that link before I said forget, I'll take your word for it. Man, that's a boring read.

Tony, you'll never get busted in a billion years with a weld in cat on that x pipe. Jaime is a master welder. Have him fab it in to make it look like it belongs and you'll be fine.

If you still don't want to do that to your magnaflow pipe, you can go out and spend the cash on that new h pipe. I've got a 12 pack of beer and a free meal for you, just bring that old magnaflow x by my way and i'll properly take care of it for you

[50 Proof]

What's interesting is that the arb website didn't say anything about the specific carb number being used for 93332 x-pipe being illegal for sale/use after 12/31/08.

The 93332 x-pipe is still certified under carb number D-193-14. The 93332 part number is illegal to use for the state of California according to the new laws.

I'm willing to bet that Magnaflow took the same cats, created new part numbers and certified the new part numbers/mid-pipes using the existing D-193-14 Carb E.O. Number.

I don't think it's illegal to use the 93332 mid-pipe since its carb e.o. number is still valid. It's just that magnaflow can no longer sell a mid-pipe using that part number in the state of california. Basically whoever purchased this mid-pipe before the beginning of this year and had it installed is good to go. But the law also says that you need to be able to prove that your cats were bad, necessitating a replacement, by a previous smog check that indicates as so.

I could be wrong though. All this bull**** is difficult to interpret.

[anthonydalrymple]

I could be wrong though. All this bull**** is difficult to interpret.

You & your bother arn't wrong; it is a major pain reading & figuring it all out. My issue at this time is getting a replacement cat from Magnaflow. I'll have to find the right angle, find another source like Jeg's to buy it from, or have someone from out of state buy it for me..... We'll see. Personally, I'm thinking of hanging a 'stock' 4-cat on the wall for smog & then knocking out the cat's in the magnaflow x so I "look" legal while driving the car. Worst case; I get popped for a "repair ticket' because the cat's are not functioning properly...

[NAVYCAT]

It would be cool if since the aftermarket cats are smaller then the stock ones, some how cut open the stock ones and put the new ones inside the old ones and weld them back up.

[danandamy]

Reading through all this makes you pause to really think about how every aspect of our lives are regulated/micromanaged by the government at some level.

Dan

[1983mercurycapri 302]

They can spend $$$$$ on trying to make sure that to track down and smog check cars that are damn near 30 years old, yet can't pay people unemployment or state tax refunds

[Dogster]

I'm getting ready to put new cats on my 85. Since the inspectors and referees don't seem to know the difference (not when I've talked to them) I'm going to true duals. I talked to Carsound (Magnaflow) today and the 49 state legal part # is 93338 for the H Pipe with cats. The new CA H pipe with cats is part # 37338. The CA EO number for them is D-193-84, which checks out as CA legal on the CA ARB site. Summit will have the CA legal H pipe on 3-2-09 for $428, according to their website. I didn't check out the X pipe since I wanted the H pipe anyway. Now if I can just figure out how to get the damn laser etching off Flowmaster's tailpipe tips I can put a new exhaust system together.

[anthonydalrymple]

I'm getting ready to put new cats on my 85. Since the inspectors and referees don't seem to know the difference (not when I've talked to them) I'm going to true duals. I talked to Carsound (Magnaflow) today and the 49 state legal part # is 93338 for the H Pipe with cats. The new CA H pipe with cats is part # 37338. The CA EO number for them is D-193-84, which checks out as CA legal on the CA ARB site. Summit will have the CA legal H pipe on 3-2-09 for $428, according to their website. I didn't check out the X pipe since I wanted the H pipe anyway.

Good info & I'll likely end up buying the #37338. I'll have to post up the install & evaluation info when & if i do....

Now if I can just figure out how to get the damn laser etching off Flowmaster's tailpipe tips I can put a new exhaust system together.

Why? I grafted thier stainless 2.5 tails w\laser etching into my exhaust system last year & the etching is very hard too see when they are mounted on the car IMHO.....

[Marz]

Why? I grafted thier stainless 2.5 tails w\laser etching into my exhaust system last year & the etching is very hard too see when they are mounted on the car IMHO.....

True dat! You can barely see the Flowmaster on my tailpipes. But they shouldn't care anyways since they're after the cats.

[Precipus]

good grief...you guys are in so much junk. Where I am I am suppose to have every smog item in place and appear functional (82 capri) the funny thing is all I get is a safety test which consist of me rolling into a parking lot paying the 30 or so bucks and driving away after a sticker swap. I think Uncle Jed is going to be moving back from there.

[anthonydalrymple]

good grief...you guys are in so much junk. Where I am I am suppose to have every smog item in place and appear functional (82 capri) the funny thing is all I get is a safety test which consist of me rolling into a parking lot paying the 30 or so bucks and driving away after a sticker swap. I think Uncle Jed is going to be moving back from there.

Eh...... You get used too it.....