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  1. #76

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    I really hate this thread LIESLIESLIES but have been watching and waiting because it is so truly amazing and if ever I do get caught up in a request for programming @ work or go off the deep end on a project... I have merely to go to this thread and ALL is put in PERSPECTIVE

    ~

    I promised myself I would not 'push' this thread for a few months and its been... so

    PUSH... I want to know how it ends!
    Uproot your questions from their ground and the dangling roots will be seen. More questions! - Frank Herbert

  2. #77
    FEP Senior Member FuturaGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean_T View Post
    TWR2003: Thank you for your support and tips! Saved me from burning up the EGR solenoid. I find putting all this stuff together easy but understanding what does what when and how it all works is a lot tougher. I miss Paul78Zephyr

    Dean
    I don't know why Paul78Zephyr doesn't follow this board anymore. He lives in Boxborough, MA, off I-495 (not far from TWR2003, relatively speaking) and on the way back from New Hampshire last fall, I stopped at his house for about 45 minutes and he was very friendly and cordial, showing me his Zephyr completed and running with a 5.0 EFI. Earlier this year I sent him a letter with all the FEP events planned in New England and Long Island, last week e-mailed him the latest pictures of my Futura, and I never heard back from him. Maybe Scotty beamed him up to the starship Enterprise.

  3. #78
    FEP Power Member Mustang Kid's Avatar
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    No way I'm gonna do an EFI swap in a V6 mustang convertible after seeing this thread, too much work for a 16 year old
    If I did do a swap, after the wireing I'd probably have nightmares of being engulfed in wireing or being chased by wireing gremlins wanting to strangle me
    Great thread otherwise, would be one of my main sources of info if I did do a swap
    I too want to know how it all ends! MORE PICS!!! MORE PROGRESS!!! LOL
    Last edited by Mustang Kid; 01-02-2012 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Had to change the age ;)
    -Sam
    1982 Mustang GL two hatchbacks, 3.3l and 5.0l
    1983 Capri RS Black Magic Ttop
    1984 Capri RS Sunroof
    1984 Mustang GT 'Vert
    1985 Mustang LX SSP CHP 8337
    1985 Mustang LX SSP CHP 8362
    1985 Mustang LX 3.8l 'Vert

  4. #79
    FEP Power Member David Claflin's Avatar
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    It's not that bad, I'm closer to being done with the wiring on mine then I was yesterday. THe hardest part is doing the homework before the first wire is cut, cutting and soldering is the easy part.
    1985 LTD LX, Mach1 brakes, 17" Mopar police car wheels. 302, T5, 4.10s
    1984 LTD station wagon, with 84GT nose, some might remember it as the old Dugan Racing station wagon.
    1986 FHP coupe, stock shortblock, TW heads, Holley SMII intake, 4.88, T5Z
    1990 Red LX, ported AFR heads, TFS-R box upper, weenie cam, 1 3/4 long accufabs, 3" exhaust, T5, 4.56

  5. #80

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    Hey all,

    Sorry to not update this for a while but a bunch of other stuff needed tending but last month I started modifying an '86 K-member I had laying around. I figure with the Sn95 A-arms being 1.23" longer than the Fox A-arm, its going to be sticking out of the front fenders a bit much and I would have to hassle with the short Fox tie rods and increase of the front track. Plus, I wanted to do some of the Mathis mods.

    So, here is the K-member:



    I had already sliced off the driver side inner A-arm bolt supports and measured the holes for 1/4" up and 1/2" inboard to make up for some of the 1.23" of the Sn95 A-arm. I'm hoping the roughly .78" would put the '94 Mustang spindles closer to 0 camber than the positive camber it as now with the Fox A-arm. I noticed Mathis's book has the incorrect length difference of the '87/'88 V8 Thunderbird A-arm at .75" longer than the Fox A-arm. I've measure several '87/'88 V8 Thunderbird A-arms in the wrecking yard and they are more than .75" longer than the Fox A-arm. I couldn't get an exact length because I physically cannot put the tape measure at the ball joint pivot. The best I could do is measure from the center line of the A-arm bolts to the center of the bottom of the ball joint (about where the Zerk fitting would be if there was a Zerk fitting).




    Anyway, you can see I already welded (crappy flux core welds - I' going to have a professional do the final welds) the small 2-1/4" circle plates with the 1/4" pilot hole.



    I also didn't bother drilling the new holes to put in some anti-dive. 1. Because Mathis's manuscript was hosed by the publisher and 2. It seems there were some disagreement on the amount of anti-dive required. So I just moved the holes 1/4" up and 1/2" inboard relative to the original holes.



    While I was doing this, I figure I'd weld up some of the seams of the K-member also. I don't make too good looking of welds. I'm definitely going to leave the finishing welds to a professional.



    Here is the passenger side showing what it looked like before I started to butcher the K-member. Eventually, I'll get to this side and have the center bolt support tack welded in and then it's off to a welder to finish this k-member.

    Although, I'm seriously thinking of moving the K-member forward 1/2" and setting the engine 1/2" back. Mathis recommened setting the engine 1" back but from my measurements, I wouldn't be able to get to the bell housing bolts and that would make clutch changes a real PITA.

    More to come...
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  6. #81
    FEP Member
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    Good luck, doing similar to a Fairmont-subscribing

  7. #82

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    Okay, I put off modifying the K-member. Months were going by and nothing was getting done - plus I really should see what the wheels would be like with the stock '84 K-member and Sn95 A-arms.

    In the first picture, the driver side is stock '84 and the passenger side has the '94 Mustang spindle.



    The Sn95 side has lots of positive camber and is pointing straight. The stock driver side is turned in - as much as the passenger side should be turned out but '94/'95 spindles get toe-ed in with everything else unchanged in an Sn95 spindle swap situation. I'm thinking of swapping in an Sn95 rack and tie rods and change my steering column to the earlier splined shaft for the steering wheel so I can recock the steering wheel and not have to get a special hybrid steering shaft - plus I like the old three spoke with three holes in the spokes sports steering wheels.

    Brakes:

    I'm in the process of converting over to the 13" Cobra brakes and the 11" (or so) in the rear. Unfortunately, 1984 Mustangs' front brake lines are not made the same as the '85/'86 Mustangs and definitely not the same as the '87-'93s.

    Here's the '84's passenger side brake line routing. Refer to an earlier picture if you want to see the brake hose bracket mounted in it's original location. Note how the SEFI lines run right over the holes for the '84 brake line bracket.



    Here is a picture of where the SEFI lines should be mounted. I will need to drill a new hole to mount the SEFI lines.



    There is one more hole which needs to be drilled for the SEFI lines.



    For comparison, here is the same lines from an '89 Mustang (passenger side):



    In regards to holes, Ford seems to just add more for the new changes and never gets rid of the old holes. It's kind of like the Unix operating system.

    I cannot stress enough how lucky the folks with '85/'86 Mustangs are in comparison to us folks who own '84 and earlier. They can just drop in the '87-'93 spindle brake package or the Sn95 brakes and use their existing front brake lines (They will need to use brake line brackets from an '87-'93 Mustang). We'll get to that in a bit.

    The older Mustangs will either have to add an extra length of brake line and another bracket (hard to do if also converting to SEFI and using stock stuff) or yank out the old front brake lines and either bend up a new set, buy a new set, or harvest a set from an '85/'86 Mustang.

    I chose the last option. Note that it is a beotch to remove the front passenger brake line even after removing vacuum trees, solenoids, and the windshield wiper motor from the cowl. It would have been easier if I removed the power brake booster from the donor but I wanted to see how it could be done in place. I am some how going to install this line without pulling the '84's brake booster. Remember, the passenger side front brake line runs from the passenger strut tower to the cowl and crosses over to the driver's strut tower and runs down to the prop valve.



    Here is where the '87-'93 Mustangs differ in their passenger side brake routing. Remember the '87-'93's have three port Master cylinders. The front brake reservoir port on the side rear of the MC goes to the top of the prop valve towards the rear. The rear brake reservoir port on the side front of the MC goes to the top of the prop valve towards the front. But the '87-'93's have a line going directly to the driver's side strut tower to the driver side front brake.

    The brake line to the passenger side front brake on an '87-'93? It comes out of the BOTTOM of the rear of the proportioning valve. On '84, the passenger side front brake line comes from the bottom of the prop valve too. The '85/'86 passenger side front brake line comes out the back of the prop valve.








    Okay, another difference between my '84 and the '87-'93's Mustangs: The front brake line brackets. Note how big the rusty thing is on my '84. Here is the '89's.



    Note the '85/'86's look the same as the '89's BUT THEY AREN'T! The brake hose hole in the '85/'86's brakes are like a multi-point star while the '87-'93's are D shaped with a post in the curved part of the D.



    I had to get the brake line brackets from an '89 Mustang too.

    Here's a pic of the driver's side of my '84. Notice the lack of holes and the brake line bracket in the wrong location (but mirrorred from the passenger side):



    Now, get a load of the '89's driver side brake line routing:



    Ford really has a thing for leaving holes.

    Next will be the rear brake lines mounted on the rear axle assembly. Since I will be using the Cobra discs brakes in the rear and the Cobra rears use the same calipers as the regular Sn95 Mustangs but larger rotors, I figured rather than using '87-'93 8.8 rear axle brake lines, why not use the 8.8 rear brake lines off a '94/'95 V8 Mustang? That way, I don't have to bend a set of '87-'93 rear brake lines to fit the rear brake hoses I already bought.

    Now for you all whom have not bought the rear brake hoses yet and haven't run a new brake line from the front of the car to the back, consider using the set up the 2004 Mustangs (I suspected Ford started this in '96 but not sure)?

    Driver's side:



    Passenger side:



    Basically, this setup only has two rubber hoses rather than the three hoses I will have. The passenger side hose has two ports: One port is fed from the master cylinder and provides brake fluid to the passenger side rear caliper but there is a second port which feeds the driver side rear caliper. A hard line is attached to the second port on the passenger side rubber hose and runs across the rear floor pan and is plugged into the rubber hose on the driver's side.



    It's a neat set up and I would have done it on the '84 except I already installed te '86-'93 rear brake line which runs from the front of the car to the back and I already bought all three rear brake hoses. I'm hosed.

    Oh, and an added benefit of doing the two hose set up is you wouldn't have to run a new front to back hard line. Just use some brass brake line fittings to add a connecting hard line from the stock brake line to the passenger side 2 port rubber hose.


    Okay, so what did I accomplish on Jan 2? I found out removing the '84's front passenger side brake line which runs across the cowl is a PITA and I bent the crap out of it even after removing the BAP bracket, Vacuum tree, washer hose, the engine wire harness but leaving in the brake power booster. This job would be a lot easier if:

    1. Engine, windshield wiper motor, and brake power booster were removed.
    2. The brake line fittings are so soft the hex rounds off super easy. They are also very hard to break loose.

    It took me all day to get the driver side brake line and bracket installed.



    I also managed to install the rear axle brake lines and the center hose.





    The center hose cannot be installed without backing out the upper control arm bolt going to the top of the axle housing. PITA.

    Last edited by Dean_T; 01-10-2012 at 09:50 PM.
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  8. #83
    FEP Member 85.0's Avatar
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    Dean where do you get all these diagrams? I am trying to use a 90 harness on a 92 2.3 car.

    nice job on your car but haven't seen any updates recently.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85.0 View Post
    Dean where do you get all these diagrams? I am trying to use a 90 harness on a 92 2.3 car.

    nice job on your car but haven't seen any updates recently.
    The computer harness connector pin-outs are my creation after getting (or studying) the actual wire harness and recording what wire goes into what spot on each connector. I was frustrated because there isn't any clear documentation how the '86-'91 wire harnesses differs and the only one with clear documentation were the '92/'93 which FRPP had offer as a stand alone kit. Their kit came with instructions with the connector pin-outs. Be aware of the earlier Ford Motorsport SVO edition which completely hosed up the wire colors.

    The only wire harness I haven't been able to get my hands on is the '91 - I've heard it had the single brown connector vice the grey and black pair.


    To mate your '90 harness to the '92 2.3L you're going to have to get the wiring schematic for a '92 2.3L and determine what you have to work with. Being lazy, I would just go and grab the dash wiring harness from a '90 5.0L Mustang and swap it out. I think you're going to need the wire harness that goes from the dash harness through the fire wall to the solenoid which has the proper fusible links for everything else.

    Dean T
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  10. #85
    FEP Member 85.0's Avatar
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    I got this harness today, F2ZB-12A581-F260D, I'll do some searching on it and see if that's off a 92. It is a brown connector like on my 92 2.3

  11. #86
    FEP Member 85.0's Avatar
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    wonder how i could tell if the brown connector harness is for auto or manual. Don't want to find out the hard way and end up with a fried EEC

  12. #87
    FEP Member ratio411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean_T View Post
    Although, I'm seriously thinking of moving the K-member forward 1/2" and setting the engine 1/2" back. Mathis recommened setting the engine 1" back but from my measurements, I wouldn't be able to get to the bell housing bolts and that would make clutch changes a real PITA.
    Just a thought...
    Using the Fox I6 K-member with a v8, mounted via F150 engine mounts, lowers the engine ~.5", and sets the engine back in the chassis at least .5".

    This is using the F150 stud mounts in an existing hole in the engine mount frame stands. One could move that hole back even further.

    The bellhousing bolts are easy to get to, I suppose because the engine being lowered some.

  13. #88
    FEP Power Member David Claflin's Avatar
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    Thanks for the diagrams Dean, good job

    Have you or anyone come across a diagram for an 87-88 Speed density cars?
    I'm hoping to find one in a junkyard soon, if so I'll post up what I find.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dean_T View Post
    Okay, what are the gibberish I am posting now?

    These are the pin and connector layouts of the following year SEFI Main wire harness which has the 60 pin connector for the computer.

    I tried to keep the first two connectors (or one connector as the case for '91-'93 Mustangs) found near the power brake booster under the hood at the top of the page. The next connector is the 8-pin green connector found near where the EEC is mounted in the passenger kick panel (except '86 which does not have but has a 3-pin connector for the fuel pump relay circuit which is located I think over on the driver's side kick panel after entering the interior on the passenger side oval grommet).

    The last connector on the bottom is the infamous connector going to the HEGO/Low Oil sensor wiring harness. All connectors shown here are as viewed looking at the main SEFI wiring harness connector. The other connectors (like the black and white 10-pin connectors and various actuators and sensors) are all common although the wire codes may vary - but the wire purpose is the same.

    First, 1986!



    Bonus! 1988 California ONLY Mass Air SEFI Main Harness connectors:



    One wire I couldn't find is the one which goes between the Fuel Pump Relay to the EEC pin 19. Odd. The harness isn't mine so I can't go back and trace it.

    Next, 1989:



    Now, 1990 (Early-patterned after the one from a '90 Mustang with a scheduled build date of 11/89)

    (Too be added when I can kick my lazy scanner's @#!!)

    1990 (Late - patterned after the one I have grabbed first)



    And last, the '92-'93:



    If anyone can fill out the information for 1991, I'd like to get that info since that is the one harness I haven't been able to get my hands on.

    Also, if I have errors, let me know so I can research them. The '89 may be my most sketchiest since it is still in my daily driver and I didn't want to rip it out of the car to verify where each wire goes.

    Dean T
    1985 LTD LX, Mach1 brakes, 17" Mopar police car wheels. 302, T5, 4.10s
    1984 LTD station wagon, with 84GT nose, some might remember it as the old Dugan Racing station wagon.
    1986 FHP coupe, stock shortblock, TW heads, Holley SMII intake, 4.88, T5Z
    1990 Red LX, ported AFR heads, TFS-R box upper, weenie cam, 1 3/4 long accufabs, 3" exhaust, T5, 4.56

  14. #89

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    I need to get the updates scanned in. I have the pinouts for the '87 SEFI harness, early and late '90, and early and late '91.

    Plus, I had the '89 Mustang's engine rebuilt and slowly piecing it together but need to pull the '84 engine out. In the mean time, the poor '84 is busting out in rust everywhere.
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  15. #90

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    After almost three years since I've last worked on the Notch.

    First there is a Mustang





    Then there is no Mustang



    Then there is



    Yup, spent 2 hours on Black Friday rotating the Notch 180 degrees pushing it into my parent's garage, then shoving it sideways into the side of the garage where a '65 used to be about a year and a half ago. Why?

    Roof Rust!

    Passenger side:



    Driver side:



    After sitting outside for about 8 years the roof rotted out. Stupid sunroof and its inner structure held moisture and caused rust. So even in Southern Cal a car can die from rust. Being about 15 miles from the ocean can do this. In Southern Cal, a car this old with this much rust and the questionable registration status means instant death: Wrecking yard fodder. Now a normal person would have this car hauled to the scrap yard (after stripping off the desirable parts) but I'm INSANE. I'm going to further dismantle the vehicle (remove windshield, quarter glass, and back window plus a bunch of trim pieces) and drill out a gazillion spot welds holding the rotted roof skin on and then tack weld a replacement roof skin from a hapless wrecking yard donor. I still have to separate the roof skin from the full roof section (no steenking sunroof!) I hacked off the donor car (and it turns out, one corner may have been damaged). While this is going on I should probably scrape off all the lichen growing all over the car and sand off the surface rust.

    I'm glad this car is inside now since next week they are predicting a lot of rain.

    Not a bad job considering I moved this car by myself (well, I did use a '78 2dr Fairmont to push it straight into my parent's garage).

    And my parents got their garage cleaned up and swept out as well.


    11/30/14 addition:

    I wanted to show the donor roof section.



    I need to hang onto these clips and make sure the studs don't break off.



    Here is the upper passenger side A-pillar. I was so intent on not getting a roof with dents I overlooked looking for bondo. Oops. Wonder what this can of worms will look like. The line is where the roof skin ends.


    One last note. All the plastic clips retaining the '84's rear window lower trim had gone brittle and broke/fell off. The only solid clip broke as soon as I tried to remove it. Funny thing is I found more plastic clips in my pile of wrecking yard crap. I seriously need to get a life...



    I guess I can ditch the sunroof bag strap hold downs in my trunk opening.
    Last edited by Dean_T; 11-30-2014 at 09:23 PM.
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  16. #91

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    Sweet man, i cant wait to see the roof replacement progress!
    Jeremy
    -86 mustang SSP X CHP Unit # 3788-bone stock & staying that way
    -66 Mustang, bench seat car,8.8,t5 fuel injected 92 engine
    -72 Maverick 5.0 resto in process
    -12SS Camaro 6 speed. 600 FWHP, Kraftwerks Supercharger
    -03 z71 Avalanche 9" lift on 35s Daily Driven 20k a year. 290k miles at 11.8 mpg
    Entire 1986 electrical and vacuum troubleshooting manual download
    http://slantnosefox.com/picturehosti...g%20manual.zip

  17. #92

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    I alway see rust on same spot in sunroof fox.
    Always Stay Humble. -Sinister-

  18. #93
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    I still can't believe that rust. As many sunroof foxes as I have owned I've never had that happen. Is your headliner wet? I'm wondering if your hinge pockets weren't leaking.
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  19. #94

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    My '82 did this. One day in the mid-to-late '90s, back when I still had that car, someone parked an '84.5 GT350 across the street from where I lived, and the whole top quarter of the passenger side A-pillar was completely gone from rust! The rest of the car looked good. I don't remember if it had a sunroof or T-tops or a solid roof, but I never saw it again.
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  20. #95

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    Today I removed the trim from the windshield and rear window and the big long ones on the sides of the car.





    Today I learned I haven't had enough rust on the '84.

    The plastic trim at the base of the windshield is nice looking and can hide a lot of problems.

    Driver side base of the windshield. Black arrow shows it rotted through.



    Passenger side. Black arrows shows rusted clips which the plastic trim used to be attached. Red arrows shows severe rust bubbling.



    This type of rust is what made me dump a very rare '81 excop Fairmont years ago. Fortunately for the '84 Notch, I now have a serious Mig welder and have gone completely insane.

    The only way to repair this is to pull the entire cowl piece off. More spot weld drilling. sigh. If I fill the holes with epoxy, bondo, or weld a patch over the holes it will just rust through again. Nope. Two choices is to patch the holes with the cowl piece off and treat both sides to a good anti rust primer and paint then weld the panel back on the car or remove the old panel and weld in a non-rusted panel from a donor car.

    I guess I will be stripping this car sooner than I expected.



    Hopefully, it has a decent cowl, non-rusted metal clips to retain the plastic windshield trim pieces and trim moulding clips because I bent a lot of the little buggers to remove the window trim.

    Next for the '84: Removing the rear seat, interior plastic panels, removing the exterior sail panels, both front fenders and (dammit!) remove the dash assembly which I thought I wouldn't have to remove ever.

    Then I will need to pull the dash, HVAC, front fenders, and windshield from the '89 Mustang. If the cowl is sound, I can drill the gazillion spot welds to harvest it. If not. I may try to patch the '84s. Last thing I want to do is to get one from a donor car.

    You'ld think I'd have enough rust issues with the '82 Cougar wagon. If I wasn't so bat guano crazy I might actually cared.
    Last edited by Dean_T; 12-04-2014 at 11:51 PM.
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  21. #96

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    I would just use the donor roof for its metal to make patches, and just cut and patch any rusted areas on the '84. You might need the services of a good metal shop, to form some bends, but they're probably less work than whole panels.

    Then I'd try to not break down that aero-hatch, and save it instead. Although she is quite ratty looking...
    '88 Mustang GT convertible, T5, 3.08:1 gears. 5.0 Explobra Jet: A9L Mass Air conversion, Fenderwell Mac cold air intake, 70mm MAF meter = 4.6 T-Bird/Cougar housing + '95 Mustang F2VF-12B579-A1A sensor, aftermarket 70mm throttle body and spacer, Explorer intakes, GT40P heads with Alex's Parts springs and drilled for thermactor, Crane F3ZE-6529-AB 1.7 "Cobra" roller rockers, Ford Racing P50 headers, Mac H-pipe, Magnaflow catback, Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump, UPR firewall adjuster and quadrant with Ford OEM cable, 3G conversion ('95 Mustang V6), Taurus fan, rolled on Rustoleum gloss white paint...
    Past Four Eyes: Red well optioned '82 GT 5.0, Black T-top '81 Capri Black Magic 3.3L 4 speed, Black T-top '84 Capri RS 5.0 5 speed.Over 200,000 miles driven in Four Eyes, and over 350,000 in Fox Body cars.

  22. #97
    FEP Super Member Travis T's Avatar
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    I hate to see the sunroof go away. They're actually pretty nice and not much upkeep once you fix a few small issues. It's not often you see a notch with one. Why not just try to patch the roof?
    1984 Mustang GT owned since 1991 (first car). Mercury Mountaineer GT-40P engine, some suspension mods, currently undergoing a five lug SN95 brake upgrade and more suspension mods. Some minor body and interior mods have been done as well.

    2004 GT convertible, 2001 Taurus LX, 1994 F150, 1950 F-1 Ford Pickup

  23. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I hate to see the sunroof go away. They're actually pretty nice and not much upkeep once you fix a few small issues. It's not often you see a notch with one. Why not just try to patch the roof?
    I agree with this, try save the roof if you can.
    Always Stay Humble. -Sinister-

  24. #99

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    Well, now I'm unsure which way I'm going to go on this sunroof job. I thought it would be tough to patch the holes with the thin skin Ford used on the roof and body filler on the flexible part of the roof never lasts. It would be easier to just weld the donor skin on a long the edge using rosette welds and avoid burn through or warpage. One small fly in this ointment is the solid roofs have a cross brace which I would have to some how drill the spot welds and then figure out how to locate it on the '84 and tack weld it in. If I goof then the overhead interior light will not fit the headliner board right.

    So where am I at after two weeks?

    Interior is gutted, sail panels are out and front and rear glass has been pulled. The rear wasn't too bad but the windshield broke. I hate that hard butyl stuff!










    I think I should mention the tools used to pull the glass. There is the ol' tried an' true piano wire on the left and the knife handle thing on the right. I've found the piano wire worked best - even for the hard butyl stuff. If you want to save the glass and it's set with the harden butyl stuff, don't use the knife thing unless you know how to use it properly. The one I bought didn't come with much instructions so I proceeded to break the windshield. I didn't mind since it was pretty pitted anyway.

    About pulling the rear glass. Before cutting the soft nonhardening caulk stuff with piano wire, I highly recommend removing the rear window defroster wires first.

    Passenger side:


    Driver side:



    The wires first must be unconnected and unscrewed. This is done from inside the trunk. The passenger side is the ground wire and on the '84 Notch, it is attached here:



    The driver side is more involved since it is the power wire and it has to be pulled from the connector inside the trunk:



    With a thin screwdriver and some patience (and climbing inside the trunk) it can be pulled apart.

    With the glass out I have the fun and joy of scraping out all the black sticky stuff and figure out how to remove the lead from the seam formed by the roof panel and the quarter panels and the a-pillars without getting lead poisoning.

    Here is the quarter panel seam between the red lines.


    Up close shot of the seam in the rear window, driver side:


    Here is the seam on the A-pillar, driver side.


    Yeah, not going to be fun. Not sure if a propane torch would be hot enough or too hot and will warp panels or light everything on fire. I plan on putting a weld blanket over the dash assembly or around the C-pillar if I try to melt the lead out but still...

    I still haven't decided what to do with the cowl rust. If I pull the cowl panel, the hood, dash assembly, windshield wiper motor, arms and pivot assemblies all need to be removed.

    Here's an example from an '86 Mustang I had to cut apart.

    Notice the cowl panel also has the VIN tag riveted to it. I think there are spot welds underneath it. Uh oh, I really don't want to mess with the VIN tag with its special rivets and be posting it all over the internet. I may have to just pull the wiper motor and linkages and try to cut out the rusted parts, weld in a patch, grind the welds smooth, and hit the back side the best I can with a rust prevention coating like Master Series silver. I like Master Series because it's tough, not UV sensitive, keeps rust from returning, and can stick to clean steel or rusted steel. I had a bad experience with POR15 lifting off in sheets after applying it to a less than rusty bare steel surface. POR15 needs something more than clean non rusty steel sanded with 220 grit to stick to. It is also hard to top coat properly unless you use their tie coat at the right time. Master Series can accept any primer or paint applied over it. The down side is it doesn't come in a spray can and I only know of one place to order it from. It also takes a special thinner. Or naphtha but here in California Naphtha, MEK, Toluene, and a bunch of other chemicals have been banned. We literally are SOL and have to use the water base stuff.

    But, I'm getting ahead of my self. I still have to clean up the goo from the window ledges, edges or whatever it's called the windows were mounted to.

    I hope to have the roof skin off before the new year...
    Last edited by Dean_T; 12-20-2014 at 11:42 PM.
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

  25. #100

    Default

    Has it really been four months? Less since I've been drilling spot welds. A little here, a little there, then yesterday I melted off the rest of the lead seam filler and started to grind off the tack welds hiding under the lead. It wasn't too unusual to find rust under the lead, even here in Southern Cal. In a few years, the rust would have pushed out the lead.

    Anyway, I hate how the sun roof was done on the Fox chassis.




    Drilling spot welds, almost done.




    When I tried to remove the sun roof panel from the roof, it wouldn't budge. I had to force it. The tabs on the sun roof glass had rusted and expanded inside the plastic coating and jammed the sun roof in place. It was very annoying.



    Finally! The roof skin is free!





    Bummer. The rusted out portion of the roof skin is where the sun roof inner metal reinforcement is located. I would have to some how yank that off if I wanted to get at the rusty part.



    Holy crap. Even the sun roof reinforcement is rusting.

    So, now I will have to drill more spot welds and melt more lead and cut through some tack welds so I can use my donor roof skin - and I still have to deal with the regular roof's inner reinforcement bar. Arg.



    A bit of a nasty surprise waiting after I removed the roof skin - more rust forming under the roof skin on the inner roof structure. I can treat it now but beats the bejabbers out of me how I'm going to prevent this on my other Fox car.

    It may be awhile before I do an update. But it will be before the end of summer. I have a real incentive to get the '84 out of the garage:





    Yup, I bought another 4-eye and it's a beaut. It also has a lot of rust issues being a vinyl roof car.

    I swear, I'll never buy another sun roof Fox or anything with a vinyl roof. But, I have this thing for '69 Firebirds...
    Last edited by Dean_T; 04-26-2015 at 08:48 PM.
    Proud owner of the one and only Friggin' Futura

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