where did that darn bolt go.......

[heyitsme]

Ok, new cam is in, gear drive is in, then this....I dropped that tiny bolt that locks down the dizzy, it went down either one of the 2 front holes that are in the center of the motor that run parralel with the cam, or down one of the lifter holes. Now when it did this I heard what sounded like a bolt hitting the oil pan.

Now here's the question; is there a windage tray, or is it posable that the bolt did go right through the motor and land in the oil pan? I can't really see anything else that would stop the bolt?

I spent the last couple of hours with a couple of different magnets, some on a ridgid rod, others on a flexable rod, all with no luck. I went in both oil drain holes as well as the big gap in front where the timing cover would be.

You guys have any other idears on what to do? I am trying to stay away from dropping the oil pan as that is a royal pan in the butt!

If I pulled out the cam again, is the motor set up so that you can look down those center holes right into the pan?

All I need to do is be able to see it.

Other than that, what do you think would happen if I drove it like that?

Thanks again guys

[ScreeminChikin]

It very likely went all the way down. Yes it sucks but no I wouldn't drive it like that. If it were to get kicked up in between a spinning rod and the cylinder of something....things going kaboom! I also don't imagine you will be able to see it with the cam out because the rotating assembly will be in the way.

[tman1257]

If the bolt is small enough to fit through the drain plug hole, take a magnet on the bottom of your oil pan and try to get it to pull the bolt over to the hole. This would be easier than dropping the pan.

[82mustang]

like said above but get a strong magnet, or just stick one on the front and rear sumps and call it a day..the bolt will likely stick to a magnet on the outside of the pan and never cause you problems.. the downside being it could get sucked in the oil pump and seize your motor, or stuck in the timing chain, etc..

[GT350 Dominator]

First don't even consider running it with that in there, HUGE MISTAKE!!! Patience is key, I dropped the oil pump shaft in my 347, and after much persistance and a long magnet I fished it out thru the front oil drain hole, so if I can get a 6" long piece turned around and out that hole, surely you can get that little bolt out! If you have to drop the pan, then so be it, its easier than pulling the entire motor and rebuilding after it eats itself from the impending disaster. Cheaper too.

[gdniel]

The distributor hold down bolt with the 1/2 inch head is too big to fit out through the oil drain plug hole ( the oil drain hole on the oil pan is not big enough).

I would, for peace of mind, remove the oil pan as suggested above and remove the bolt to be sure it was out of harms way. Very unlikely you will be able to fish it out through an oil drain hole from the top of the lifter valley either.

[heyitsme]

thats true. I tried a magnet on the outside of the pan hoping that I cold slid it along the pan until I picked up the bolt and then slid it too the front where it is open as I can see the oil pump, but it doesn't look like the magnet will work through the oil pan as I tried it with another bolt and it didn't even move it.

I looked at the manual about removing the oil pan, do you really have to drop the flex disk on the steering and remove the starter as well as the engine mounts? I could see that if I was taking it out all together but I just want to lower it enough to see in the pan, has anyone done this before?

And after sleeping on it for the night, I decided not to run it until I get that bolt out, it would always be in the back of my mind on where it is and when it would surface next, not worth it.

[bbarber275]

Yep, you need to undo the motor mounts.I had a oil pump sieze up on me after a fresh engine install (less the 100 miles) before it did it.I pulled the Disb and the oil pump shaft was twisted bad.I did not want to pull the motor or the tranny again. I just undid the motor mounts, also think I had to do the tranny crossmember and blocked the tranny and then lifted to motor up some, and is gave me just enough clearence to reach in pan and change the oil pump and tube.I did block the engine and also put blocks in between engine mounts and frame where they connected,It was not the safest way to change the pump for sure.Turned out a very small piece of gasket from sump screen made it through and seized the pump.This piece was smaller then a finger nail clipping.

[heyitsme]

Ok, lifted and blocked the motor, dropped the oil pan, had enough room to get my hand in both the front and rear sump.....results......NOTHING!

Where else would this stupid little bolt be sitting? I also pulled the cam to see if it was hangiing around there, still nothing.

So now I have an engine with no timing cover, no cam, motor sitting about 6 inches above the motor mounts on the frame, oil pan dropped with lots of room to move it around, but not enough to take it completly out.

Anybody have any more ideas???

I'm so lost right now!

[ScreeminChikin]

Ok, lifted and blocked the motor, dropped the oil pan, had enough room to get my hand in both the front and rear sump.....results......NOTHING!

Where else would this stupid little bolt be sitting? I also pulled the cam to see if it was hangiing around there, still nothing.

So now I have an engine with no timing cover, no cam, motor sitting about 6 inches above the motor mounts on the frame, oil pan dropped with lots of room to move it around, but not enough to take it completly out.

Anybody have any more ideas???

I'm so lost right now!

Have you tried maybe turning the crank by hand to see if it maybe stopped on the way down and is sitting on a rod or something? Or maybe its sitting on top of the pickup tube. That would be my luck.

[heyitsme]

Yup, turned the crank by hand several times, as well as checked the top of the pickup tube.

I don't have a clue where it would have possably gone?

[mmb617]

Are you certain it didn't fall to the floor and get kicked away somewhere? Maybe the sound you heard was it hitting the outside of the oil pan.

[heyitsme]

I'm not sure now. I spent another couple of hours this afternoon with no luck. It was sitting in the lifter gallery and the lifters holes is the only place that it would have gone down. From there I got my hand up and checked every single place that I could get my fingers into, including the little ledge that the bearing caps bolt too. From there I checked the front of the motor, above the oil pump and that little spot just above the front bearing, below where the gear for the dist. sits, not in any of those places. rotated the crank stoping every 1/4 turn and rechecking everything.

The only thing I was thinking was if it was posable that it somehow landed above one of the cylinders, on the inside of the block? I'm not sure about this as I have never had a ford apart and I'm not sure how much room there is between the outside of the cylinder (the rough area) and the top of the block, where the lifter gallery is, mabey someone can tell me if that is possable?

I would absolutly love to find this stupid thing though.

And yes, I checked the floor again, it's not anywhere on the floor.

I will check again tonight for a couple of more hours and if I still don't have any luck then I will put it back together and forget that it may be in there.......

[GT350 Dominator]

Try useing a good magnet that telescopes and stick it everywhere possible, and since you had no intake try all the holes in the heads too, it could not get into the bore, its too big to pass the valves, and keep looking until your positive its not in the motor anywhere! Exhaust all possibilities, we've all been there, and usually just when I'm about to give up for the 10th time, I find the dam thing, goodluck! You said you heard it hit the pan, go from there.

[82mustang]

i would try rattling the snot out of that motor, that should help it migrate to the oil pan

[heyitsme]

Ok, I spent another 6 hours today on it. I thought at one point I felt it between the block and the oil pump shaft but after feeling around for another hour I couldn't feel it again (I think I mentally wanted to feel it there and since I'm on the edge of going crazy already my mind decided to f**k with me)

I've stopped for supper, going to go for a jog after then set the alarm. If I don't find it within 1 hour I am putting the motor back together and forgetting this ever happened.

Thanks for all your help, I'm going to cry for a bit before I go back to the garage.

[JACook]

I know you don't want to hear this, but at what point do you decide that leaving the
engine in the car is causing you way more work than just pulling it out?

These engines are really easy to pull. I personally would never even consider trying to
pull off the oil pan with the engine in the car. If it were me, I'd quit groping around blind,
and just yank it. It's not worth the risk not finding that bolt.

Then again, I do own a hoist...

[heyitsme]

Thats exactly it, I don't. And where the car is right now there is no way to either get one in there or a tow truck in to pull it out, I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place, or should I say the garage wall and another vehicle!

Like I said, I'm going to try for a couple of more hours tonight then button it back up.

[TWR2003]

100 percent sure its not in the pan? Is it possible its sitting on the top of the oil pump?

T

[Zephyr 351C]

Thats exactly it, I don't. And where the car is right now there is no way to either get one in there or a tow truck in to pull it out, I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place, or should I say the garage wall and another vehicle!

I'd suck it up and push the car somewhere where I could get the motor out, and borrow a hoist. I had to eat ramen for a while, but I just went and bought a hoist when I needed it.

IF the bolt is in there somewhere, and it gets into the rotating assembly, you'll be kicking yourself in the ass for not finding it.

[48fordnut]

turn the eng over with a socket on the crank bolt, turn it several times. if its on a rod or crank it should drop off. If you can't find it I would pull the eng, no matter the effort. it won't go into the pump if you run the eng but it is possible to be picked up by the oil and moved .

[heyitsme]

A-HA! FOUND IT!!!

it was sitting up in a little grove on one of the main bearing journals, second one in, just above the crank. It was just sitting there, almost like it was taunting me, saying "I dare you to put the engine back together, I DARE YOU!!"

Well, it took close to 20 hours and a day and half off work, but if you put your mind too it you can find a bolt that fell in the engine while it's still in the car!

Just want to say thanks for eveyones input in this. Time to put it back together and see what I need for valve springs and pushrods, but thats another post.

Thanks again all.

[GT350 Dominator]

Very happy for you, and real glad you didn't give up, a lesson learned, never put things in a position to get in the motor, NEVER, always take the little extra time to cover any entrance point to the engine with anything, a towel, news paper, anything then this is hopefully prevented. It only takes this happening once to make a guy more carefull and use preventive measures first.

[ScreeminChikin]

You have way more patience than I do. I would have had the engine out and apart after the first couple of hours. Glad you found it.

[gdniel]

+1