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Thread: headlight sizes

  1. #1

    Default headlight sizes

    We know four-eyed Mustangs and Capris used 4656 and 4651 headlamps, but what about other four-eyed Foxes? Do they use the same 4656/4651 combination?

    And then what about two-eyed Fairmont/Zephyr, Granada/non XR-7 Cougar, and Thunderbird/Cougar XR-7? Is it 6054 for all, or something different? Do any of those have four eyes and two eyes in the same model year? If so, which model/trim level had two eyes and which had four?

    I know there are some F/Z and T/C experts in here!
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  2. #2

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    78-83 2 eyed F - 6054
    78-83 4 eyed F/Z, 81/82 Granada/Cougar - 4656/4651 (same as 4 eyed Mustang)

    EDIT 81/82 Granada seems to be 4 eyed setup

    Paul
    1978 Mercury Zephyr - The FIRST FourEyed Fox
    Last edited by paul78zephyr; 07-17-2007 at 06:31 PM.
    1978 Mercury Zephyr 4-dr / Holley 600 vac sec carbed 1989 5.0L HO with Edelbrock Performer intake / MSD-6A / T-5 / 8.8" rear 3.27:1 / Mustang 5.0L brakes, suspension, steering / Dual exhaust / Mustang 10 hole wheels / P225/60R15 Goodyear Eagle TR

  3. #3

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    OK, so which Fairmonts had two headlights and which had four?

  4. #4

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    The 80-82 XR-7's and TBirds use the 4656/4651 as well, as do the 83-86 Tbirds/Cougars.
    83 TC "Clone"

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    OK, so which Fairmonts had two headlights and which had four?
    The only 4 eyed Fairmonts were the sport coupes (Futura). Note the name 'Futura' was applied to ALL Fairmonts, not just the coupes, after 1981.

    Paul
    1978 Mercury Zephyr - The FIRST FourEyed Fox
    1978 Mercury Zephyr 4-dr / Holley 600 vac sec carbed 1989 5.0L HO with Edelbrock Performer intake / MSD-6A / T-5 / 8.8" rear 3.27:1 / Mustang 5.0L brakes, suspension, steering / Dual exhaust / Mustang 10 hole wheels / P225/60R15 Goodyear Eagle TR

  6. #6

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    So non-sport coupe Fairmonts were the only ones to have two 6054 headlamps. The sport coupes had two 4656 and two 4651 headlamps.

    Same applies to Zephyrs? The designation for Zephyr sport coupes was 'Z7', right? And the Z7 designation, did it apply to ALL Zephyrs after '81, just like the Fairmont Futura?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    Same applies to Zephyrs? The designation for Zephyr sport coupes was 'Z7', right? And the Z7 designation, did it apply to ALL Zephyrs after '81, just like the Fairmont Futura?
    ALL Zephyrs regardless of body style had the 4 eyed (4 headlight) setup. And no, Z7 was the designation for the Zephyr sport coupe only, all years 78-83.

    Headlights
    2 78-81 Faimont all except coup
    4 78-81 Fairmont coupe only, 82-83 all Fairmont
    4 78-83 Zephyr all

    Name
    Fairmont 78-81 All Fairmont except coupe
    Fairmont Futura 78-83 Fairmont coupe and 82-83 All Fairmont
    Zephyr 78-83 All Zephyr except coupe
    Zephyr Z7 78-83 Zephyr Coupe only

    Paul
    1978 Mercury Zephyr - The FIRST FourEyed Fox
    Last edited by paul78zephyr; 07-18-2007 at 12:45 PM.
    1978 Mercury Zephyr 4-dr / Holley 600 vac sec carbed 1989 5.0L HO with Edelbrock Performer intake / MSD-6A / T-5 / 8.8" rear 3.27:1 / Mustang 5.0L brakes, suspension, steering / Dual exhaust / Mustang 10 hole wheels / P225/60R15 Goodyear Eagle TR

  8. #8
    FEP Member cleger's Avatar
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    Default

    If I'm not mistaken, later in the run, maybe '81-'83 or so, there were "Futura" variants of the 4-door Fairmont sedans & wagons that had 4 headlights. I'm foggy on it, but something tells me that by '83, all Fairmont models used 4 headlights? Maybe not...

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by cleger View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, later in the run, maybe '81-'83 or so, there were "Futura" variants of the 4-door Fairmont sedans & wagons that had 4 headlights. I'm foggy on it, but something tells me that by '83, all Fairmont models used 4 headlights? Maybe not...
    You ARE correct, all 82-83 Fairmonts have 4 headlight setup...Ive edited my post above. Sorry about that.

    Paul
    1978 Mercury Zephyr - The FIRST FourEyed Fox
    Last edited by paul78zephyr; 07-18-2007 at 12:45 PM.
    1978 Mercury Zephyr 4-dr / Holley 600 vac sec carbed 1989 5.0L HO with Edelbrock Performer intake / MSD-6A / T-5 / 8.8" rear 3.27:1 / Mustang 5.0L brakes, suspension, steering / Dual exhaust / Mustang 10 hole wheels / P225/60R15 Goodyear Eagle TR

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member quarterstang86's Avatar
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    Since this thread has arose.

    Is there any headlite for the 4656/4651 style that uses a much brighter bulb style? I could have sworn I saw a newer bulb in an old style housing on older trucks etc in my area.

    Not looking to do any rewiring just want either a change from the yellow color headlite or something brighter than my standard ORiley replacements.

  11. #11

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    You can get a "sealed-beam conversion" kit that has stock-size housings and uses replaceable H1 and H4 bulbs. They come in DOT (US/North America) and ECE (European) flavors.

    http://www.rallylights.com/hella/165mm_lo.asp

    That's one such place to get kits or individual pieces to make it a custom setup. Susquehanna MotorSports (rallylights.com) sells quality stuff.

    You really should rewire the headlamp circuit so you can get full battery voltage to the headlamps/bulbs. Even the factory sealed-beam headlamps would be much brighter if they got full voltage from the battery. You really have no choice if you're going to up the wattage of the headlamps/bulbs. To not do so will end up overheating the wiring because it's not large enough to handle the draw.

  12. #12
    FEP Power Member LTDScott's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    You can get a "sealed-beam conversion" kit that has stock-size housings and uses replaceable H1 and H4 bulbs. They come in DOT (US/North America) and ECE (European) flavors.

    http://www.rallylights.com/hella/165mm_lo.asp

    That's one such place to get kits or individual pieces to make it a custom setup. Susquehanna MotorSports (rallylights.com) sells quality stuff.

    You really should rewire the headlamp circuit so you can get full battery voltage to the headlamps/bulbs. Even the factory sealed-beam headlamps would be much brighter if they got full voltage from the battery. You really have no choice if you're going to up the wattage of the headlamps/bulbs. To not do so will end up overheating the wiring because it's not large enough to handle the draw.
    I love my Hella Euro spec conversions. 100 watt high beams, baby.
    85 Ford LTD LX: Four eyes and Four doors

    EFI swap, AFR 165 heads, 5-speed conversion, Cobra brakes, etc.

  13. #13
    FEP Senior Member quarterstang86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    You can get a "sealed-beam conversion" kit that has stock-size housings and uses replaceable H1 and H4 bulbs. They come in DOT (US/North America) and ECE (European) flavors.

    http://www.rallylights.com/hella/165mm_lo.asp

    That's one such place to get kits or individual pieces to make it a custom setup. Susquehanna MotorSports (rallylights.com) sells quality stuff.
    I don't know what I was thinking, I've used Susquehanna MotorSports before for another vehicles factory fog lite Hella upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    You really should rewire the headlamp circuit so you can get full battery voltage to the headlamps/bulbs. Even the factory sealed-beam headlamps would be much brighter if they got full voltage from the battery. You really have no choice if you're going to up the wattage of the headlamps/bulbs. To not do so will end up overheating the wiring because it's not large enough to handle the draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTDScott View Post
    I love my Hella Euro spec conversions. 100 watt high beams, baby.
    What all is involved in re-wiring the circuit for the additional voltage? When you say re-wire do you mean upgrade to new wire and add a relay perhaps to a positive battery source? Not clear on if you mean re-wiring all the way to the steering column / stalk etc or even what particular wire to go with.

  14. #14

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    You don't have to re-wire all the way to the multi-function switch (which includes the high/low beam selector switch) on the steering column if you use relays and larger wiring (10-12 AWG) between the relays and the headlamps. The small wiring (18 AWG?) from the switch activates the relay. The relay handles the electrical load of the headlamps instead of the multi-function switch and the small wiring.

    http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

    Read that. Diagrams of the original headlamp wiring circuit and then a circuit including relays are included.

  15. #15
    FEP Senior Member quarterstang86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    You don't have to re-wire all the way to the multi-function switch (which includes the high/low beam selector switch) on the steering column if you use relays and larger wiring (10-12 AWG) between the relays and the headlamps. The small wiring (18 AWG?) from the switch activates the relay. The relay handles the electrical load of the headlamps instead of the multi-function switch and the small wiring.

    http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

    Read that. Diagrams of the original headlamp wiring circuit and then a circuit including relays are included.
    Awesome article, thanks for the link. It all makes perfect sense now.

  16. #16
    FEP Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Bumping an ancient thread...

    I've got a Zephyr, hence 4 eyes. I'm figuring I'll convert to a combined hi/lo beam in the outer lights, then the inner ones can be used for brake cooling ducts or oil cooler duct or "ram air" or whatever. For a track car that will only use the headlights sporadically (basically, if it's raining or heavy overcast) I really don't need anything special. With that said, I don't want to go the cheap route only to find that the lights are crap. The never-ending battle of buying car parts!

    Susquehanna Motorsports (rallylights.com) still carries the Hella conversions in DOT or ECE flavors; those use an H4 bulb. Obviously Hella makes good stuff, but it's also pretty expensive, and honestly is probably overkill for my needs.

    Other places like Carid.com and Amazon carry all sorts of 4x6" (aka 165mm) sealed beam conversions. Some are LED (which I plan to stay away from both for styling purposes and because inexpensive LEDs will be junk), some are H4 like the Hellas, some are 9007 bulbs, etc. There are a bunch of brands, most of them nothing I've ever heard of. Does anyone have any experience - good, bad, or indifferent - with any of these "off brand" sealed beam conversions?

    Thanks!
    '89 GT convertible - not a four-eye
    '82 Zephyr Z7 - future track car

  17. #17
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I bought a set of headlights virtually identical to these many years ago.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/4X6-Halogen...53.m1438.l2649

    I installed them in my 79 PC. The biggest issue was the headlight housings were larger and deeper than original sealed beams, so the buckets had to be cut and modified for the lights to fit properly. I definitely will buy a different set for my other Foxes to prevent that.

    With that said, the headlights have worked just fine. I actually installed a cheap HF HID kit they had on sale one day. I know all the "HID kit don't work well as a retro fit etc", but anyway. The lights kick butt! The lights are bright without blinding oncoming traffic, I have them aimed well so they light up the entire road from side to side and honestly never need the high beams even out on the country roads on the darkest nights. So for a total investment of probably $100 for the lights and the HID kit I can't complain and I say they are the best lighting I have ever had on any Fox EVER!

    My plan going forward with my 82 RS, 82 GT, and others is to purchase these lights: https://www.ebay.com/itm/165mm-H4656...53.m1438.l2649

    I believe these will fit much better in the stock buckets without the modifications. I have been told that Autopal is the cheaper line made by Hella, but I can't confirm that is true. The reviews I have seen say the lights are quality units, so I am going to give them a try. You could run the stock H4 replacement bulbs of your choice, but I plan on going with LED replacement bulbs.
    Last edited by wraithracing; 10-14-2018 at 08:54 AM.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

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  18. #18
    FEP Member Patrick Olsen's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback and the part suggestions. These things are so cheap that I might end up ordering a couple different options, just to see what they look like.

    Regarding LED bulbs, my CTS-V has factory HID lows and halogen highs (9005 bulbs). The high beams were unimpressive - barely brighter than the HID low beams. So I decided to try LED bulbs - the ones I got are JDM ASTARS off Amazon. HUGE improvement in the amount of light thrown. I do think the beam pattern isn't as good as the halogen bulbs, but since they're high beams I'm not really concerned about that. If they were low beams I think it might be an issue.

  19. #19
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Its interesting your Factory HID experience is similar to mine. My wife's ole' Lincoln Navigator had the HID headlights. The low beams were impressive and very useful. The High Beams did little if anything over the low beams. Essentially never used them since there was no real benefit. From what I remember the setup was similar to yours in regards to HID lows and Halogen Highs, but we sold the SUV a few years ago, so I might be wrong.

    https://www.lifetimeledlights.com/

    I have seen some good reviews for this company's products, so I am seriously considering installing their bulbs in my 2004 F250 in hopes of improving some of my visibility during my long trips between CO and TX when I seem to be traveling late at night in the middle of NOWHERE.
    Last edited by wraithracing; 10-16-2018 at 09:20 AM.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Awaiting Restoration
    1984 SVO Restoration in Progress
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1982 Capri Roller
    1984 Capri Returned to Bubble Back Glory
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
    1982 Capri RS 5.0 4spd T-tops

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