LTD LX single fuel pump conversion

[rab]

On my 78 4dr I used F2C and matching Airtex E2146 (converted to high pressure) and the outlet/inlet ports pointed straight forwards (the hanger assembly is 'keyed' to the tank and installs only in one orientation). The F2* tanks even have a 'notch' formed into the top of them to allow clearance for the hoses. Mustang hoses will not fit/work as they are designed/formed to pass around the passenger side of the tank. The outlet/inlet line sizes were 5/16 (supply) and 1/4 (return) which I believe is the same as the late Mustang.

after getting all my stuff, i see the tank is keyed along with the sending unit.
and yes my ? reguarding the fuel lines was only about the size of the inlets and outlets on the sending unit.
thanks again.

[66FFairlane]

I'm doing the conversion to an in tank pump using a f2c fuel tank. How are you addressing the issue of the smaller filler neck hole? It won't accept the original filler neck grommet.

[TWR2003]

I'm doing the conversion to an in tank pump using a f2c fuel tank. How are you addressing the issue of the smaller filler neck hole? It won't accept the original filler neck grommet.

What year/car are you converting?

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showpost...0&postcount=14

[66FFairlane]

It's a 78 2 dr sedan Zephyr. The original tank has a 2 1/2" filler neck hole, the f2 c tank is 2 1/4"

[FuturaGuy]

I'm doing the conversion to an in tank pump using a f2c fuel tank. How are you addressing the issue of the smaller filler neck hole? It won't accept the original filler neck grommet.

I had the same problem when I put an F2C tank in my '79 Futura. I used the smaller grommet, cut the inlet pipe short, got a 2 1/4"-to-2" adapter, and a length of 2" exhaust tubing. Some expanding of the adapter to fit it over the 2" tube instead of inside, and a lot of brazing, and it worked.

My pal "paul78zephyr" was luckier and got the filler pipe from an LTD he found in a junkyard.

[TWR2003]

It's a 78 2 dr sedan Zephyr. The original tank has a 2 1/2" filler neck hole, the f2 c tank is 2 1/4"

Did you go to the thread link in my previous post?

[66FFairlane]

Yes I did. I have a plan now, but I need to get the correct grommet first. Is the 2" filler tube grommet for the f2 c tank a E1AZ-9072-B or F4ZZ9072DA or neither or either?

[Greywolf]

I posted up the number for the 2" filler somewhere. I think I made a list of the grommets...Ford only used a few grommets for all applications...you could try the dealer. There's an E1AZ (which was superseded by an E4... I think), the F4ZZ and a rarely-used F8 which are for the SN95 Mustangs but also supersede a few earlier parts.

The hole in the tank itself is the same size from at least 1980-2004, not sure about 78-79 but I think it is. So the grommet matters based on the filler neck size.

A decent counter guy can figure it out quick. And if you search I might have the post already showing which you need...I'm at work with super slow internet so I can't do it for you.

[Greywolf]

I lied, twice.

1: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...hlight=grommet

2. It is the E1AZ part. E4 is my imagination or delusion.

[TWR2003]

Yes I did. I have a plan now, but I need to get the correct grommet first. Is the 2" filler tube grommet for the f2 c tank a E1AZ-9072-B or F4ZZ9072DA or neither or either?

The one I got for my F2C tank and 2" filler pipe was E2DZ9072B

Original 1978 part on left

[Greywolf]

Hmmm, maybe the E2xx was the replacement for the E1xx and I'm not completely losing my mind?

I recall when I bought my E1xx I had to buy 2 of them as they apparently were used on trucks for a while, so 1 package does both tanks. Was that true of the E2xx? My parts counter guy offered to sell me just one and find a way to unload the other, but it was cheap enough I figured I'd get both and keep one wrapped up for 10 years from now.

[66FFairlane]

I wanted to get the car running for a local show, so I tried putting the original grommet into the filler neck hole. It did fit and gave a pretty good seal on a 2" pipe. I cut short the original filler tube and made a 2 1/4" to 2" adaptor made from exhaust tubing. Spliced it together with a piece of fuel filler hose, put in about 11 gallons of fuel and so far no leakage. I have now recieved the new grommet and will have it if needed. I appreciate the all the help.

If anybody is interested in the original tank, it's still in awesome shape, as is the sending unit except that the float doesn't float anymore. I'm located in SE Wisconsin, Mlwaukee area.

[moelll]

i have just converted my fuel pump assembly like LTDscott. however i can tell you with certainty that the pump with the center inlet can work. it'll clear the bottom portion no problem. you just have to finaggle it in there

[David Claflin]

I used a 255LPH for a 90 mustang in mine, no issues, just cut off 1" of the metal tube going to the pump.

[Dean_T]

I thought I'd post some pictures of the '78-'81 FZ and '82 Cougar wagon tank and an F2C:






This tank came out of a '78 Friggin' Futura. The one in the '82 Cougar wagon is the same. By '82, the Fairmont and Zephyr sedans shared the same tank shape as the '83-'86 LTD sedan which is completely different from the wagon version.







This is a replacement tank for an '83-'86 LTD/Marquis fuel injected wagon. The LTD/Marquis sedan version is completely different and will not fit the wagon trunk pan or a '78-'81 FZ trunk pan.

Note the big ol' gaping hole in top. That is where the fuel pump/sender unit assemby go in, unlike a SEFI Mustang which has two smaller holes for separate pump and sender assemblies.



This is the view of the intank sump from the large hole in top. Note the small hole in the bottom of the pan, this is how fuel enters the bottom of the sump.



Here is the view of the sump from the fuel inlet hole.



Here are the fuel senders used in the '83-'86 fuel injected LTD/Marquis. Note the wagon version is longer than the sedan version and not interchangeable.





The aftermarket wagon fuel pump/sender appears to be very close to the stock Ford unit. Hopefully, it will work just as well. In the last picture, note the Mustang fuel pump will not just drop into the hanger assembly. Either some tubing trimming or use a Camaro fuel pump will need to be done.

[SHOmont]

+1 on the Camaro fuel pump. What I had to do on my LTD LX to do dual exhaust.

[Marz]

I may have to do the same thing one day. I'd still keep single exhaust. But if I want more power those two stock pumps may not do it!

[ZephyrEFI]

It's funny to read this now. I did this last year and dealt with all the same crap. I went with the Mustang pump, not knowing about an alternative, and it works.

The problem I AM having though is that the LTD gauge sender is not the correct voltage or resistance (whichever it is, I can't remember) for my '90 gauge, so I have to somehow swap the newer sending unit onto the LTD hanger. Haven't figured out how exactly that's going to be accomplished yet, haha.

[FuturaGuy]

I had the same problem since I have an '88 dash. The resistance for the '87 and up sending unit is low (22.4 ohms) at Empty and high (145 ohms) at Full. I got a sending unit for an '87 and up Mustang at the Ford dealer, then cut the existing sending unit off the pump assembly. I also cut off most of the bracket on the Mustang sending unit. In order to get the float arm on the Mustang sender to swing in the same direction as the LTD sender, you have to turn it around. I made a couple of brackets out of very heavy sheet metal and spaced the Mustang sending unit 1.625 inches from the tube on the pump assembly, then brazed the sending unit it place. The arm on the Mustang sending unit will have to be bent to duplicate the arm on the LTD sender. I didn't take any pictures at the time (foolish) so while this verbal description probably doesn't help much now, it will make more sense when you have the parts in your hand and see how they are oriented.

Initially I spaced the sending unit out 1.80" but when I put the pump on the assembly, it didn't fit thru the hole so I had to take it apart, shorten the brackets to 1.625", and braze everything again. It works just fine so I'm not about to drop the tank to take out the pump and sender assembly now.

[ZephyrEFI]

I had the same problem since I have an '88 dash. The resistance for the '87 and up sending unit is low (22.4 ohms) at Empty and high (145 ohms) at Full. I got a sending unit for an '87 and up Mustang at the Ford dealer, then cut the existing sending unit off the pump assembly. I also cut off most of the bracket on the Mustang sending unit. In order to get the float arm on the Mustang sender to swing in the same direction as the LTD sender, you have to turn it around. I made a couple of brackets out of very heavy sheet metal and spaced the Mustang sending unit 1.625 inches from the tube on the pump assembly, then brazed the sending unit it place. The arm on the Mustang sending unit will have to be bent to duplicate the arm on the LTD sender. I didn't take any pictures at the time (foolish) so while this verbal description probably doesn't help much now, it will make more sense when you have the parts in your hand and see how they are oriented.

Initially I spaced the sending unit out 1.80" but when I put the pump on the assembly, it didn't fit thru the hole so I had to take it apart, shorten the brackets to 1.625", and braze everything again. It works just fine so I'm not about to drop the tank to take out the pump and sender assembly now.

Thanks! Great to know it can be done. I'll keep this post handy when I go to do it!

[slpr50ltd]

Thanks Dean for all of the sending unit comparative photos! It makes more clear what I thought I was going to have to do anyway! Usually, Mustang pumps come with an "S" shape molded hose to connect it. I was thinking I could cut the tube on the sender, just leaving a straight connector tube, and use the "S" hose, doing any trimming that may be necessary for proper fit, to connect the fuel pump.

Seeing as how you seem to be the sending unit "guru", do you happen to have photos to compare the '83-'86 sedan standard tank sender and extended tank sender?

I thought I'd post some pictures of the '78-'81 FZ and '82 Cougar wagon tank and an F2C:






This tank came out of a '78 Friggin' Futura. The one in the '82 Cougar wagon is the same. By '82, the Fairmont and Zephyr sedans shared the same tank shape as the '83-'86 LTD sedan which is completely different from the wagon version.







This is a replacement tank for an '83-'86 LTD/Marquis fuel injected wagon. The LTD/Marquis sedan version is completely different and will not fit the wagon trunk pan or a '78-'81 FZ trunk pan.

Note the big ol' gaping hole in top. That is where the fuel pump/sender unit assemby go in, unlike a SEFI Mustang which has two smaller holes for separate pump and sender assemblies.



This is the view of the intank sump from the large hole in top. Note the small hole in the bottom of the pan, this is how fuel enters the bottom of the sump.



Here is the view of the sump from the fuel inlet hole.



Here are the fuel senders used in the '83-'86 fuel injected LTD/Marquis. Note the wagon version is longer than the sedan version and not interchangeable.





The aftermarket wagon fuel pump/sender appears to be very close to the stock Ford unit. Hopefully, it will work just as well. In the last picture, note the Mustang fuel pump will not just drop into the hanger assembly. Either some tubing trimming or use a Camaro fuel pump will need to be done.

[TWR2003]

I thought I'd post some pictures of the '78-'81 FZ and '82 Cougar wagon tank and an F2C:






This tank came out of a '78 Friggin' Futura. The one in the '82 Cougar wagon is the same. By '82, the Fairmont and Zephyr sedans shared the same tank shape as the '83-'86 LTD sedan which is completely different from the wagon version.







This is a replacement tank for an '83-'86 LTD/Marquis fuel injected wagon. The LTD/Marquis sedan version is completely different and will not fit the wagon trunk pan or a '78-'81 FZ trunk pan.

Note the big ol' gaping hole in top. That is where the fuel pump/sender unit assemby go in, unlike a SEFI Mustang which has two smaller holes for separate pump and sender assemblies.

Dean_T
That's for posting those pics. I know we have discussed this subject at this board before. Could you measure the diameter of the holes in the sides of those tanks that are for the fuel filler pipe?

Thanks
T

[David Claflin]

The aftermarket wagon fuel pump/sender appears to be very close to the stock Ford unit. Hopefully, it will work just as well. In the last picture, note the Mustang fuel pump will not just drop into the hanger assembly. Either some tubing trimming or use a Camaro fuel pump will need to be done.

I used a 255 LPH mustang pump in my 85 LTD LX. I trimmed 1" of the outlet tube and it works like a charm.

[Dean_T]

Brien, Unfortunately, I don't recall which sedan sender I have. Do you have a Ford part number? I can check it against what's stamped on the sender.

TWR2003, I'll get the dimensions as soon as I get my hands on the tanks again. Right now I'm in the middle of cleaning up the Cougar Wagon's engine bay so I can paint and prep it for an engine I'm having rebuilt. I also need to harvest a bunch of parts off my '89 Mustang.

[ZephyrEFI]

By the way, if anyone's interested, I boldly put the Mustang sender on with the arm facing backwards, (having failed to revisit this thread before performing the surgery), and that does NOT work. It interferes with the baffling in the tank. These are the before and after. I'll be hitting the hardware store today to look for something to build a bracket out of to make the sender face the other way.