Interesting info I found (for Californians at least)

[LTDScott]

I'm about to get my car smog checked this week, so I've been going through CARB's database of approved parts so I can have EO numbers printed out for all the aftermarket stuff I have on my car in case the smog tech queries it.

Well in the process of looking at exhaust stuff, I found this:

EO: D-216-4 View PDF
EO Date: 1/16/1992
Manufacturer Name: J. Bittle American, Inc.
Device: Shorty Header
Device Type: Exhaust System/ Exhaust Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1620 1986-1992 5.0L Ford Mustangs, 1990-1992 5.0L Ford Thunderbird engine family MFM5.0V5FXFX, 1986-1992 5.0L Lincoln LSC equipped with EEC-4 ECU and sequential EFI, 1984-1985 5.0L Ford LTD LX equipped with EEC-4 ECU and central EFI, 1979-1984 4.2L & 5.0L V-8 Ford Mustang with EEC-4 ECU, 1980 5.0L Ford Crown Victorias and Lincolns equipped with EEC-3 ECU and Variable Venturi, 1982-1983 5.0L Crown Victorias and Lincolns equipped with EEC-3 ECU

1624 1986-1992 model-year 5.0L Mustangs, 1990-1992 model-year 5.0L Thunderbird engine family MFM5.0V5FXFX, 1986-1992 model-year 5.0L Lincoln LSC equipped with EEC-4 ECU and sequential EFI, 1984-1985 model-year 5.0L LTD LX equipped with EEC-4 ECU and central EFI, 1979-1984 model-year 4.2L & 5.0L V-8 Mustang with EEC-4 ECU, 1980 model-year 5.0L Crown Victorias and Lincolns equipped with EEC-3 ECU and Variable Venturi, 1982-1983 5.0L Crown Victorias and Lincolns equipped with EEC-3 ECU


LTD LX?! These are just your standard JBA shortie headers and they're smog certified for the LTD LX? I don't see how that could be considering the LTD LX has single exhaust with the heat riser valve on the driver's side manifold. You couldn't install it on an LTD LX without removing that valve.
Same with the Mustang up to 84, yet the 85 Mustang is somehow not included on this list.

It seems like someone has pulled a fast one on CARB. Maybe someone with an LTD LX in California could use this info to their advantage if they wanted to install headers. My own LTD LX is way past that point, but I just thought I'd share the info.

[Marz]

What about your old LX? Phil could use this... couldn't he? Actually he could use their standard 85 JBA headers since you already had converted it to 85 tubular exhaust manifolds.

But JBA also has legal headers for the 85 GT as as well. The drivers header is the same as the 86+ but they modified it to fit that valve on the drivers side. Corse, My GT no longer has this type of set up due to it being converted to 86+ true duals.

Jasen

[anthonydalrymple]

It wouldn't be the first time a little mistake has been made by a company & the CARB board\personnel didn't catch it. I'm in the exhaust manufacturing "biz" & we apply for smog exemption order numbers for our exhaust systems all the time. if you have a clean record of always submitting header's,(cat-backs, turbo-backs, etc. too), over & over again that easily meet thier requirements; they can get pretty "complacent" & be easy people to deal with. It's when you try to pass something by them that the perverbial spit hit's the fan & they scrutinize everything with a fine tooth comb.....

[zak]

Scott, interesting find indeed. Now if only JBA had a set, CARB exempted, that would work with GT40P heads.

I know there is a thread running on the Mods, Maintence board right now where the majority say it won't work, but separately on this board and on Corral people have reported getting the 85 header setup to bolt to the later H-pipe. Key seems to be to use the flapper valve. If this is true, then it would make some sense that a 86 to 93 designed header would bolt to the earlier Y-pipe, thus why J Bittle would include the LTD LX in their documents.

JBA used to be a broad spectrum speed shop, used to get addvice from them on enahcing my LTD LX back in the late 80's. I think they went bankrupt and came back as JBA Headers (the most profitable portion of their business my guess)

zak

[anthonydalrymple]

Scott, interesting find indeed.
Key seems to be to use the flapper valve. If this is true, then it would make some sense that a 86 to 93 designed header would bolt to the earlier Y-pipe, thus why J Bittle would include the LTD LX in their documents.

zak

I don't know if this would be of interest or help....
But i pulled a set of 1&5\8" equal length shorty's off an '85 5.0 in the junkyard some months ago. They were a set of later 87-93 shorty's but had the "cone" cut off flush so only the flat flange with two holes were there w\the flapper valve setup hooked up.

So, I therefore think that a set of standard shorty header's can be adapted for use?

[Marz]

Scott, interesting find indeed.
Key seems to be to use the flapper valve. If this is true, then it would make some sense that a 86 to 93 designed header would bolt to the earlier Y-pipe, thus why J Bittle would include the LTD LX in their documents.

zak

I don't know if this would be of interest or help....
But i pulled a set of 1&5\8" equal length shorty's off an '85 5.0 in the junkyard some months ago. They were a set of later 87-93 shorty's but had the "cone" cut off flush so only the flat flange with two holes were there w\the flapper valve setup hooked up.

So, I therefore think that a set of standard shorty header's can be adapted for use?

I talked to JBA about their headers for the 85 GT's and they said they chopped the cone on the 86+ header so the flapper valve from the 85 Mustang would fit.

So then, one would assume that the 85 headers would swap right on the 86+ true duals...correct? But then a couple of people have said that they had problems. Though... one said they had a MAC h-pipe... that could explain the fitment problem.

But, I could have sworn that when I compaired the 85 tubular exhaust manifold the the 86+ tubular exhaust manifold that the 85 was a bit longer because of the flapper valve.

Jasen

[frink84]

hmmm i think we have a pair of JBA headers in the garage at home.... hehehe

[ultimatebulk]

This is the most ridiculous thing ever. The flapper valve IS NOT a crucial emissions device. Smog techs do not have a "flapper valve" check-off during their smog check.

If you are truly particular, you can run an 86-93 shorty header with any custom-made ypipe.

Or, if you want to go the illegal route, you can start of simply by installing what Jasen has - an 86-93 complete dual exhaust syatem. You can go this, all the way up the wildest longtube / offroad pipe system you can think of. After all, any TRUE dual exhaust system installed on an 85 GT will technically be ILLEGAL.

Zak in Riverside

[anthonydalrymple]

Or, if you want to go the illegal route, you can start of simply by installing what Jasen has - an 86-93 complete dual exhaust syatem. You can go this, all the way up the wildest longtube / offroad pipe system you can think of. After all, any TRUE dual exhaust system installed on an 85 GT will technically be ILLEGAL.

Zak in Riverside

True, technically illegal..... But I seriously doubt any smog tech would ever fail a fox-body with the true dual setup off an '86-93 fox nor with an aftermarket catted h or x pipe. The pre '86 catalytic converter's performance in cleaning up emmisions pales in comparison to the more modern three way converter's offered by the aftermarket. Although smog testing can be a "bitch" out here; most smog shop personnel are not out to screw us these days as it once was in the past.....

[Marz]

This is the most ridiculous thing ever. The flapper valve IS NOT a crucial emissions device. Smog techs do not have a "flapper valve" check-off during their smog check.

If you are truly particular, you can run an 86-93 shorty header with any custom-made ypipe.

Or, if you want to go the illegal route, you can start of simply by installing what Jasen has - an 86-93 complete dual exhaust syatem. You can go this, all the way up the wildest longtube / offroad pipe system you can think of. After all, any TRUE dual exhaust system installed on an 85 GT will technically be ILLEGAL.

Zak in Riverside

Yes, it is illegal.... LTDScott had said in an earlier post that he had a friend that had the same set up as me, that failed smog because his true duals wern't legal. This is why it makes me nervous.

And yes you are correct... the flaper valve is not a crucial smog device. But, what if the smog tech is feeling particularaly anal that day? What if he didn't get laid that night? He may know about 85's and see that the valve is missing and therefore clue him in to looking under the car... and seeing the true duals... and failing the car.

And who says that flapper valve needs to be functional?

The more you make it look authentic... the less-likely the tech will get suspicious and give a more intense look.

Ultimatebulk... you REALLY need to loosen your shorts a bit and be less of an ass about the smog legal vs smog illegal thing. Some of us want to stay totally legal or as legal as possible. Some of us find ways to play with the system and still manage to pass with out having to pay somebody a few hundered bux to look the otherway.

"Jasen"

[LTDScott]

ultimatebulk, maybe I'm paranoid, but I've seen too many people get screwed over by having non-smog legal stuff on their car.

Like Marz said, a friend of mine had an 85 GT that failed smog because of dual exhaust. He was a college student at the time and had to sell the car because he couldn't afford the exhaust repairs (or gas mileage, but that's another matter).

Another guy I know put a Cobra DOHC motor into a Lincoln Mark VIII and was trying to get a BAR referee label to make it legal. Every time he took it to the ref they'd find some other problem. He was kind of a dickhead with a bad attitude, so it doesn't surprise me that the smog refs hassled him. So he thought he'd be sneaky and rather than take it to the refs in San Diego, he'd take it to the refs in LA. Well somehow the San Diego smog refs caught wind of this and went up there. So when he arrived at the LA smog referee station, the same refs from San Diego were there waiting for him! The guy I knew got so pissed off at this that he moved to Florida simply for this reason.

I just think smog legality is a fine line to cross and can get you in a lot of trouble if you're not careful.

BTW, "heat riser valve" is part of the emissions equipment that is supposed to be checked on our cars as part of a standard smog check. I read it with my own two eyes from the book that the smog techs work from.