Intercoolers

[jpywell]

Looking for good air cooled intercoolers. Now I have been looking at getting an 1987 - 1988 intercooler off a Turbocoupe, but from looking at the other intercoolers you can get now, they seem kind of small.

Is there a benefit to going to a larger intercooler over a smaller one? I will be running the Garrett T3 Turbocharger. Im not really looking for aftermarket new, plan to buy used off other cars, main reason is that I get them real cheap through work.

If bigger is better can anyone think of any good ones that came on cars already?

Thanks!

[frankiesaysrelax]

http://rothfam.com/svo/volvo/volvostart.htm

check out this link. I have one of those ICs that I was planning on using on a turbo 4 project, but that has kind of never happened. Let me know if you are interested.

[jpywell]

Great thanks for that link, have to learn a little more on that bypass valve and what its all about. Anyone know? I see how it was hooked up and modified, I kinda understand what its all about but not really sure where he hooked it up to (from the elbow to what??).

Noting that after reading further into it, the volvo intercooler is still a little restrictive when porting the header out, any other suggestions on a higher flow intercooler?

[mfpmax]

Intercooler size.
Bigger is better...to a point.
A larger intercooler will have more surface area to disapate heat.

A small intercooler, but still good, and should be cheap is a Starion/Conquest intercooler. The Volvo intercooler is okay below 20 PSI, and don't pay more than $30 for one...cause they aren't even worth that.

Try to stay away from things with plastic end tanks.

Bypass just gets a feed off the vacuum tree. Its function(along with its similar operation brother, the blow off valve), is to relieve pressure in the system when you let off the throttle as the pressure has no place to go but back into the turbo. Thus keeping stress off the compressor blades.

[frankiesaysrelax]

= don't pay more than $30 for one...cause they aren't even worth that.

uuuuuuhhhhmmm, I sold the other on I had on eBay for $100. I'd say they are worth a little bit more than $30. You could probably get one for that from a u-pullit yard.

There are two important characteristics for an intercooler, flow and heat transfer. You want to get rid of as much heat as possible, hence the large surface areas of the SAAB 9000 and Volvo ICs. Pressure drop isn't everything. You could use a piece of 3" pipe as an IC and have no pressure drop but it wouldn't do jack to remove heat, which is the whole purpose of having an intercooler.

The Volvo IC greatly outperforms the stock SVO IC, that is why people do this swap. If you outgrow the Volvo IC, I'd say dish out for a custom one or start looking for big turbo diesel trucks in the junkyard. You can get a monster IC from a Powerstroke, but it would need to be cut down a bit to fit into a Mustang.

[jpywell]

Intercooler size.
Bigger is better...to a point.
A larger intercooler will have more surface area to disapate heat.

Got that figured

A small intercooler, but still good, and should be cheap is a Starion/Conquest intercooler. The Volvo intercooler is okay below 20 PSI, and don't pay more than $30 for one...cause they aren't even worth that.

Did some more reading last night and got that aswell, hense my hesitation on the volvo IC, however it may pull off the trick until I save up for an upgrade.

Try to stay away from things with plastic end tanks.

Never Thought about it like that but sure makes sence.

Bypass just gets a feed off the vacuum tree. Its function(along with its similar operation brother, the blow off valve), is to relieve pressure in the system when you let off the throttle as the pressure has no place to go but back into the turbo. Thus keeping stress off the compressor blades.

Awesome, now it totally makes sence too me, thanks!

[mfpmax]

= don't pay more than $30 for one...cause they aren't even worth that.

uuuuuuhhhhmmm, I sold the other on I had on eBay for $100. I'd say they are worth a little bit more than $30. You could probably get one for that from a u-pullit yard.

Yeah, thats Ebay. I got mine for $5 from the junkyard. They aren't worth that much. Only the uninformed pay more than they are worth.

[BRUNO]

Don't forget when choosing an intercooler the larger it is, the slower the turbo will spool. There is a point where size will start hurting you. As long as your not using something insanely big it shouldn't be a problem.

[frankiesaysrelax]

= don't pay more than $30 for one...cause they aren't even worth that.

uuuuuuhhhhmmm, I sold the other on I had on eBay for $100. I'd say they are worth a little bit more than $30. You could probably get one for that from a u-pullit yard.

Yeah, thats Ebay. I got mine for $5 from the junkyard. They aren't worth that much. Only the uninformed pay more than they are worth.

What junkyard charges $5 for an IC? Can I have directions there ? I think I paid $30 each for mine, figuring in tax etc. I still say that something is only worth what someone else will pay you for it, and I got $100 for the last one I sold. Works for me. If you can get em for $5 stock up and dump them on eBay during the spring. Ricers love these things.

I was going to offer it for $50 plus shipping to a board member but I don't think he wants it. I'll keep it for a project maybe or try for another C-note on eBay.

[mfpmax]

Well I hear the junkyards in PA and Indiana are cheap. I got lucky cause they usually take anything aluminum and melt it down. So...get directions to PA.

But you can sell them on Ebay for $100, but here, i'll state that someone shouldn't buy one for $100.

[jpywell]

Don't forget when choosing an intercooler the larger it is, the slower the turbo will spool. There is a point where size will start hurting you. As long as your not using something insanely big it shouldn't be a problem.

How you figure that? Im not a pro on them... but how can it slow down the spool? Less resistance should have no effect on the spool. A smaller intercooler or smaller header would reflect a slower spool time.

Care too explain further since I dont get how that would be a problem.

[mfpmax]

Spool I don't think would be effected.

A higher pressure drop...probably.

[jpywell]

Spool I don't think would be effected.

A higher pressure drop...probably.

That I could see easily enough, though my turbo will put out about 18 PSI on high octane and I can push more then 22 out of it on race fuel and even more when I get the methane coolant system.

[frankiesaysrelax]

Well I hear the junkyards in PA and Indiana are cheap. I got lucky cause they usually take anything aluminum and melt it down. So...get directions to PA.

But you can sell them on Ebay for $100, but here, i'll state that someone shouldn't buy one for $100.

Yeah, I was only going to tell him $50 if the wanted it. I thought that was fair. I'll have to check out some PA yards. I used to hit one up in Binghamton NY while I was in grad school. They were pretty cheap but an IC was 22.99 plus $2.00 core plus 10% environmental impact tax plus 8% sales tax. Same price as a radiator. I'm in DE right now, need to find a U-pullit near here. I'm about 20 min south of Philly.

actually, here is their whole price list:
www.garysupullit.com

[BRUNO]

What don't you mean you don't know how a bigger intercooler will slow down spool time, think of how much more area you have to fill, anytime you increase the space between the turbo and the throttle body your going to affect spool time. Using the factory style intercooler it has a very short distance, but say you use a front mount you have to first presurize the piping then the cooler then the piping to the throttle body. That is a whole lot more space. And if you had no intercooler it would spool real fast. When I had my 86 turbo coupe, I ran no intercooler, set it at 25psi(on race gas), and had no issues, but 31 psi blew it up nice....

I was told by many people you can't go fast without an intercooler, but my heavy ass t-bird beat a 99gt that ran 13.0's. And that was on the street, he was running 275/50/15 bfg drag radial, and I was running 245/60/14 radial ta's (no traction what so ever), but by the time I hit 3rd I allready had passed him.

[mfpmax]

I wouldn't call it spool time though. As I said, a pressure drop will increase becuase of the higher volume.

And yeah, you can make power without an itnercooler, superchargers have been doing it forever.

[frankiesaysrelax]

Isn't it more important to use a BOV or bypass valve when you have a larger volume of air between the turbocharger and the throttle plate? From what I understand that moving column of air has inertia and should you suddenly have to lift throttle while under boost the throttle plate will snap shut causing all that air to rebound and exert backward pressure against the compressor wheel, which is bad for the bearings in the CHRA. (I've heard this referred to as "turbo snort") A bypass valve acutually helps keep the turbo spooled up because it redirects the compressed air to the turbocharger inlet and helps spin the compressor wheel. A BOV just vents it to the atmosphere, and makes a cool noise.

[jpywell]

I think you might be getting spool time and psi mixed up. I can see how increasing the length between the Compressor and the Throttle body would decrease the PSI however the spool time is affected by 3 things that I am aware of:

1. Temperature (let your car warm up before driving etc...)
2. Header Flow (the higher CFM your headers put out the faster the spool time)
3. Back Pressure, if there is back pressure in the system the compressor has to fight it to continue rotation so it is not as fast.

You can also coat your header to retain heat in the system and that will also increase your spool time.

[RichV]

Spool time or "turbo lag" is affected by many things. It could be the turbo is too big for your application, exhaust restriction, or size of intercooler. The intercooler can affect the spool time because if you think of how much volume the turbo needs to fill before you make possitive pressure it takes time. Less time to fill a stock style SVO IC vs if I go with a front mount that supports 500 HP plus all the tubing that connects it. Like sizing a turbo for an engine an intercooler is the same thing. Get one too big, you will suffer with lag, to small you will not get maximum performance. For a T3 size for 200-300 HP max. But remember you will run more HP with less boost + better intercooling.

Rich.

[frankiesaysrelax]

mfpmax, have you ever heard of anyone using two volvo cores with custom end tanks to make a monster IC for a turbo Ford?

[mfpmax]

mfpmax, have you ever heard of anyone using two volvo cores with custom end tanks to make a monster IC for a turbo Ford?

I've heard of using three.

http://silverbackracing.itgo.com/july10.html

Actually I saw a two core Volvo on Ebay awhile ago.

[Evil86lx]

Rich is right. More tubing+a bigger intercooler= longer lag time. It take's longer for the air to fill all of those pipe's and big intercooler. Which means you will have a longer spool time.

The volvo intercooler is ok for mild/cheap application's. I personally wouldnt spend the money on one.

kyle

[frankiesaysrelax]

I've heard of using three.

http://silverbackracing.itgo.com/july10.html

Actually I saw a two core Volvo on Ebay awhile ago.

Yo! That is awesome!!!! Way overkill for that 2.3 but he sure does have room to grow!!!!!

[mfpmax]

I've heard of using three.

http://silverbackracing.itgo.com/july10.html

Actually I saw a two core Volvo on Ebay awhile ago.

Yo! That is awesome!!!! Way overkill for that 2.3 but he sure does have room to grow!!!!!

Wasn't over kill...he blew the end tanks on it twice, 25+ PSI.

[jpywell]

Man I sure hope that dual overhead cam setup works!! That would be SOOO sweet . He's done some sweet minor mods to his intake and heads. Now I know I need to go big on the intercooler and the volvo is just not going to cut it... I may try to do a 3 core like he did if I can find someone that can put it together for me at the right price... for a T3 that should be enough, though if I ever find a TX35 like he did... Im there.