Water pump questions

[Sask84gt]

Hey all, so it’s looking like I’m going to have to change out the water pump on my 84 fox. It has a antifreeze leak from somewhere and I can see a puddle in one of the crevices in current pump so it’s either pump or gasket. Since the pump is original to motor I might as well replace with new pump and gasket. Motor in it is from a 91 gt. So from my research I need a pump for a 91 302 in a counter clockwise rotation? Looking at the tuff stuff 1594NF but there is also the 1594NC. Both are reverse rotation and look to be drivers side inlet so I’m not sure what the difference is. Anybody know? Also while I’m in there what else should I be looking at changing out for new? Timing cover? New Timing chain? Etc? Never attempted this before so it’s going to be a learning process.

Thanks
Brad

[qikgts]

Did you go to the Tuff Stuff website?

https://www.tuffstuffperformance.com...ter-pumps.html

There are multiple pumps with the "NC" suffix and from what I saw at the link above it looks like the difference between the pumps are maybe just related to the powder coating color.

[Sask84gt]

Did you go to the Tuff Stuff website?

https://www.tuffstuffperformance.com...ter-pumps.html

There are multiple pumps with the "NC" suffix and from what I saw at the link above it looks like the difference between the pumps are maybe just related to the powder coating color.

Yes I did go to the website and had a look. It still wasn’t clear to me what the differences are. Like I said in my original post there is a pump with the 1594NC and a pump with the 1594NF they look the same, have same specs, same powder coating and are both for 87-93.

[83GTTops]

When I replaced my original water pump on my 83 GT, I also used these bolts. I went ahead and changed the timing chain while I was there.

I figured cheap insurance.

These are the parts I used. Two of my water pump bolts broke while taking this off.

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-8501BHDW/19...er-Studs-Bolts

https://lmr.com/item/M6268A302/Ford-...r-Timing-Chain

[Sask84gt]

When I replaced my original water pump on my 83 GT, I also used these bolts. I went ahead and changed the timing chain while I was there.

I figured cheap insurance.

These are the parts I used. Two of my water pump bolts broke while taking this off.

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-8501BHDW/19...er-Studs-Bolts

https://lmr.com/item/M6268A302/Ford-...r-Timing-Chain

I found some cheaper bolts from summit that I’m going to try. No way I’m paying 170 Canadian for bolts. Ridiculous lol. I have a new comp cams timing chain that I’m going to use I think.

[83GTTops]

Cool. Good luck and let us know how it works

[Scott Peters]

If you check the belt routing on the 79-85 mustang 5.0, they are all reverse rotation pumps.
The 79-85 are carburetors and use a different timing cover than 86-93 fuel injection cars.
The pumps differ mainly because of the cavities where they sit.
Although a 86-93 pump will bolt up to the earlier timing cover, you will lose cooling efficiency.
I found this out by researching the heck out of it.
If you check on any auto parts websites, you will see a different number for the 79-86 and the 86-93.
Some of our Mustang venders only list one pump, and that’s really incorrect.
Just my 2cents.
Scott

[Sask84gt]

If you check the belt routing on the 79-85 mustang 5.0, they are all reverse rotation pumps.
The 79-85 are carburetors and use a different timing cover than 86-93 fuel injection cars.
The pumps differ mainly because of the cavities where they sit.
Although a 86-93 pump will bolt up to the earlier timing cover, you will lose cooling efficiency.
I found this out by researching the heck out of it.
If you check on any auto parts websites, you will see a different number for the 79-86 and the 86-93.
Some of our Mustang venders only list one pump, and that’s really incorrect.
Just my 2cents.
Scott

Thanks for the info Scott. My motor in my 84 is a 302 from a 91 gt that I converted to carb. Timing cover is still original to the motor as is the timing cover. So I will need pump for a 91 as well as a timing cover.

[bwguardian]

Thanks for the info Scott. My motor in my 84 is a 302 from a 91 gt that I converted to carb. Timing cover is still original to the motor as is the timing cover. So I will need pump for a 91 as well as a timing cover.

You'll want a water pump for an 84 given that's what your timing cover is from. Like stated above, the newer timing covers...86+...will not have the hole for the mechanical fuel pump for the carburetor...

[Sask84gt]

You'll want a water pump for an 84 given that's what your timing cover is from. Like stated above, the newer timing covers...86+...will not have the hole for the mechanical fuel pump for the carburetor...

sorry guess I should have stated that when I converted to carb I ran a external electric Holley black fuel pump instead of changing to a timing cover, chain and eccentric to go mechanical.

[85GTGuy]

The 79-85 are carburetors....

True, with the sole exception being the 85's with automatics. They were fuel injected that year, CFI to be exact.

sorry guess I should have stated that when I converted to carb I ran a external electric Holley black fuel pump instead of changing to a timing cover, chain and eccentric to go mechanical.

I thought you covered it when you said...

My motor in my 84 is a 302 from a 91 gt that I converted to carb. Timing cover is still original to the motor as is the timing cover. So I will need pump for a 91 as well as a timing cover.

So I will need pump for a 91 as well as a timing cover.

Yes, exactly.

[Bentley]

I found some cheaper bolts from summit that I’m going to try. No way I’m paying 170 Canadian for bolts. Ridiculous lol. I have a new comp cams timing chain that I’m going to use I think.

I said the same thing when I purchased this stud/Bolt kit from LMR too...... They are very nice and seem to be a tick larger in diameter and made from some good steel... WELL WORTH it to me, and I am a very frugal old man on Social Security........ LOL

[at_the_junkyard]

FWIW I used a Gates 43272 water pump on a couple different motors with newer and older timing covers etc. It is listed for 1986-93. It is a nice aluminum pump and has worked well for me, no cooling issues.

When I researched this a few years back (if I remember correct) I believe it was indicated to get the 1986 pump as it was a better impeller design and better flow.

Perhaps others can clarify but I think the major issue and mismatch was getting the standard vs reverse rotation pump correct (as the impellers are obviously different). I believe early some Ford 302's without serpentine belts (which reverse the water pump rotation) had standard rotation water pumps. Both types will bolt on to the timing covers but may not perform correctly.

[Sask84gt]

I said the same thing when I purchased this stud/Bolt kit from LMR too...... They are very nice and seem to be a tick larger in diameter and made from some good steel... WELL WORTH it to me, and I am a very frugal old man on Social Security........ LOL

lol ya I may bite the bullet and order them. I don’t particularly want to use cheap bolts now that I think about it more.

[85MUSTANGTGT]

I used the LMR timing cover/water pump bolt kit when I built my 347, I'll vouch that it's quality and was happy with it. Didn't want to use the rusty, grungy hardware from my original engine. It's been awhile since I specifically looked at them, but seem to remember the bolt heads stamped "ARP".

[gr79]

Coolant puddle may not be from a wp leak.
Pumps usually leak from the weep hole at the bottom and leave a ground puddle.
Check t-stat housing for cracks.

Had a mysterious coolant leak once.
2.3 Ranger, coil packs up front.
Was the top rad hose.
Developed a pinhole leak on the side of it.
Only leaked when t-stat was open.

A tiny almost invisible stream of coolant was spraying onto the front coil pack.
Did not leak when engine was cold.
Only when driving and warmed up.
Most of it evaporated from engine heat and rad fan air stream.
Smelled, front coil was damp with coolant, but no trail.

A wp bypass hose can swell and cause havoc. If it bursts, car is going nowhere.
So if replacing pump, good time to replace upper, lower, and bypass hoses.

[Sask84gt]

Coolant puddle may not be from a wp leak.
Pumps usually leak from the weep hole at the bottom and leave a ground puddle.
Check t-stat housing for cracks.

Had a mysterious coolant leak once.
2.3 Ranger, coil packs up front.
Was the top rad hose.
Developed a pinhole leak on the side of it.
Only leaked when t-stat was open.

A tiny almost invisible stream of coolant was spraying onto the front coil pack.
Did not leak when engine was cold.
Only when driving and warmed up.
Most of it evaporated from engine heat and rad fan air stream.
Smelled, front coil was damp with coolant, but no trail.

A wp bypass hose can swell and cause havoc. If it bursts, car is going nowhere.
So if replacing pump, good time to replace upper, lower, and bypass hoses.

Ya not sure where it’s coming from, I know that it leaks small drops underneath the car. Seems to come down and drip from the lip of the oil pan. Also there is a small puddle that keeps forming in one of the crevices on the water pump on the side of the thermostat housing if that makes sense. Coolant level in my radiator drops to a certain point then seems to hold.

[gr79]

91 302 engine from another car. Unknown history of any repair work in this area?
Thinkin 30y old gaskets. Hairline cracks, Rusty timing covers. Worn, over tight or loose ss hose clamps.
Any guess last time thermostat was replaced if at all? Pump gaskets, timing cover gasket. RTV?. Goop?
Last resort could borrow a coolant radiator pressure tester from a chain auto store.
Just like house plumbing, source of drips can be sneaky as to location. Follow the trail backwards.
Leaking under pressure or no? Hot or cold? Timespan of reoccurring puddle?

One time after replacing the thermostat and gasket, had a bit of coolant sneaking out at the bolt ear.
Have cracked an ear once on a cast housing. The days before owning advanced tools like a torque wrench.
Spec 14-21 pounds on the bolts. Retorqued bolts all the way to 21 pounds,
No more leak, a well i'll be darn moment.
Had a 7.5 rear axle gear cover develop a leak in the cover face and needed a new cover.

Watching certified mechanics do initial shop inspection and repair procedures:
Always see a super bright tactical like flashlight or whatever for a good look around, maybe wipe, scrape, probe things.
May or may not invite customer over to show anything.
Then the shop rag comes out to wipe the hands like a signal flag.
Can signal the end of a close study to pinpoint, in this case, source of leak(s) to guarantee the repair.

[Matt_83_GT]

I replaced my water pump on my 83 GT this past summer. While I was in there, I decided to replace the thermostat and housing. Bought a chrome-plated housing to zoot up the look. Bad move. Thermostat didn't fit in it properly and the housing didn't securely attach. I was getting the same pooling on the water pump, next to the housing. I removed the rubber O-ring that came with the housing and used a standard Felpro gasket. Still leaked and pooled on the water pump. Verified that hoses/clamps were not the issue. Eventually, I totally cleaned up the 40-year-old housing and put it back on with the new thermostat and new gasket. No more leak/pooling on the pump. Good luck with effort and let us know how it goes!

[Sask84gt]

I replaced my water pump on my 83 GT this past summer. While I was in there, I decided to replace the thermostat and housing. Bought a chrome-plated housing to zoot up the look. Bad move. Thermostat didn't fit in it properly and the housing didn't securely attach. I was getting the same pooling on the water pump, next to the housing. I removed the rubber O-ring that came with the housing and used a standard Felpro gasket. Still leaked and pooled on the water pump. Verified that hoses/clamps were not the issue. Eventually, I totally cleaned up the 40-year-old housing and put it back on with the new thermostat and new gasket. No more leak/pooling on the pump. Good luck with effort and let us know how it goes!

hmm I did replace the thermostat, pretty sure I did the housing too but can’t remember lol. I might not have. I used a felpro gasket too I think lol. I will start looking around that area I guess.

[85GTGuy]

Also there is a small puddle that keeps forming in one of the crevices on the water pump on the side of the thermostat housing if that makes sense.

That is either your thermostat housing or the rad hose where it attaches to the housing, I'd bet.

[ITdude87]

Two of my water pump bolts broke while taking this off.

I'll be doing a pump and gasket soon as well, looks like I'm joining the party here.

I'll be grabbing a Motorcraft pump from NPD, Felpro gasket, and some new bolts.

I am scared sh*tless about the bolts breaking off on me removing the old one. Not looking forward to it.

[Matt_83_GT]

I'll be doing a pump and gasket soon as well, looks like I'm joining the party here.

I'll be grabbing a Motorcraft pump from NPD, Felpro gasket, and some new bolts.

I am scared sh*tless about the bolts breaking off on me removing the old one. Not looking forward to it.

Have faith, my friend! I thought for sure that some of mine would break, but with a little elbow grease (and some WD40), they all came out without issue! I also used the bolt kit from LMR with my new pump. Wasn't risking breaking them off when I put the new pump on!

[ITdude87]

Have faith, my friend! I thought for sure that some of mine would break, but with a little elbow grease (and some WD40), they all came out without issue! I also used the bolt kit from LMR with my new pump. Wasn't risking breaking them off when I put the new pump on!

That's good to hear. I'll be sure to soak everything down with PB Blaster and be super careful. I love the car but absolutely hate how brittle and touchy everything is.

I might go with these bolts instead of the $100 kit from LMR - That's pretty aggressive pricing. $100 is more than the OEM pump itself...wtf?

https://www.npdlink.com/product/bolt-kit-water-pump-dacromet-coated-incl-7-special-bolts-3-lock-nuts-grade-8-bolts-incl-illustrated-installation-diagram/204822?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3D water%252Bpump%252Bbolts%26top_parent%3D150000%26y ear%3D

[Matt_83_GT]

Those look decent. I went back and checked my orders. I actually got my bolt kit from CJ's and I didn't get the kit that had both water pump and timing cover bolts. Just the water pump bolts/nuts. Both CJ's and LMR has that set for around $45 (the LMR kit appears to be the same one that you're looking at):

https://www.cjponyparts.com/water-pu...993/p/WPB8501/
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-8501AHDWE/1...tuds-Bolts-Kit