Aftermarket EFI conversion from Carb

[85foxinva]

Anyone have experience with carb to efi kits? Just exploring my options with my '85. Of course I'll keep all the original parts in case I decide to sell later on in life, which is doubtful . Heard and read different opinions.

[dcs13]

I work at a hot rod shop. Over the last few years Ive had experience with Fitech and Holley Sniper units. The Fitechs ALWAYS give us problems. We will NOT use them anymore. I put a Sniper on my personal car (84 Thunderbird, 351w). I love it. The Holley tuning is open source, so you dont need to buy software to tweak it (yes, it will need some tweaking). The Holley forums are AWESOME. Those guys are really helpful. You can upload your config and catalogs and they will offer a lot of help. On my application, I utilized a stock in tank EFI pump and regulated it with a corvette return style filter... Easy peasy. Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions. Its worth it.

[massacre]

Holley Terminator X user here.

[richpet]

I'm one of those FiTech users. I did have a fair number of issues with it for about the first year. It has now been working quite well for the last two. I do plan to transfer it to the new motor when I do the swap. I currently have a small carb pressure electric pump mounted out back with the FiTech Forcefuel unit mounted under the hood. It was super easy to wire up and such.
That said I kinda wish I'd gone with the Holley. If I can justify the expense I may do that then. But if not, I finally do have this FiTech working well

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[massacre]

Holley just came out with V3, an update which adds a lot of nice features.

[85foxinva]

Holley just came out with V3, an update which adds a lot of nice features.

Going with Edelbrock Pro Flo 4.

[Merc331]

I went with the Edelbrock ProFlo 4 as well and absolutely love the system. The driveability gained is worth the cost of the system as well as how well the auto-learn is. One day I'll get it on a dyno but my main concern wasn't trying to make more power, it was to have consistent driveability, hot re-starts, cold start/idle, no fuel puddling with single plane intake...etc. Multi-port is the only way to go and being able to have a kit that works with a built 331 was a great option. Super Victor Intake and 1000cfm throttle body certainly woke up my Capri

[emerygt350]

There is always Fords CFI. <Runs for the door/>

[Bentley]

I went with the Edelbrock ProFlo 4 as well and absolutely love the system. The driveability gained is worth the cost of the system as well as how well the auto-learn is. One day I'll get it on a dyno but my main concern wasn't trying to make more power, it was to have consistent driveability, hot re-starts, cold start/idle, no fuel puddling with single plane intake...etc. Multi-port is the only way to go and being able to have a kit that works with a built 331 was a great option. Super Victor Intake and 1000cfm throttle body certainly woke up my Capri

Watch some " Nicks Garage" youtube videos... All of the comparison dyno runs I have seen the Carb will produce more HP than the FI....

[Bentley]

I work at a hot rod shop. Over the last few years Ive had experience with Fitech and Holley Sniper units. The Fitechs ALWAYS give us problems. We will NOT use them anymore. I put a Sniper on my personal car (84 Thunderbird, 351w). I love it. The Holley tuning is open source, so you dont need to buy software to tweak it (yes, it will need some tweaking). The Holley forums are AWESOME. Those guys are really helpful. You can upload your config and catalogs and they will offer a lot of help. On my application, I utilized a stock in tank EFI pump and regulated it with a corvette return style filter... Easy peasy. Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions. Its worth it.

Chris Sullivan youtubes are pretty good...
He has added FI to a couple of cars ( I dont remember which brand) and he calls them " self learning"... They will program themselves to the car as its running ( did I say that right?).....
I know very little about FI, but apparently all aftermarket FI systems do not do this??
Can you explain this a little more on here?? Thanks

[richpet]

It's not always about eking out every last HP. I went with the FI for convenience. Was just tired of carbs.
Now it starts first crank at any temperature. I get decent economy and power. Now that I am typing I forget the OP's stated reason for the switch (lol).

The FiTech and most others (I believe) do self learn. I *think that self learning has more to do with the car than the driving style. All motors are slightly different for many reasons. The self learn learns over time exactly how much fuel/air is needed to maintain as close as possible to the desired AF ratio.

And because the FI uses sensors (MAP, etc) they automatically compensate for things like the O2 level differences at changing altitudes and temperatures (cool air is denser/more O2, higher elevation (less manifold pressure) had a lower amount, etc). A carb can't do that. The jet size is the jet size. Yes, they can be VERY well tuned, but there are more inherent limitations to the mechanical only (carb) version of getting fuel and air inside.

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[at_the_junkyard]

Yes I also went with the Pro flo 4 after struggling for a year or so with a Fitech.

Agreed carbs may be able to produce more peak power at times if you are a good tuner (with lots of parts) but my opinion reliability in all conditions is probably what is needed 99% of the time for a daily or weekend cruiser. However to really get into carb tuning you should probably have an AFR guage for reference (like what EFI does haha). Don't get me wrong I liked making adjustments to the carbs over the years but that can be frustrating and time consuming too. Depends on your overall goals, knowledge level, and use for the vehicle is I guess.

With my Fitech I kept getting a fault on the O2 sensor which would lock up the self learn and also the cold starts were kind of rough. Played around for hours researching the settings and what they do and tweaking them. Ended up changing out the ECU (as there were a few bad ones apparently) to get rid of the fault but the problems returned and I gave up on it. Mixed reviews on the Fitech. It seems some people out there have them working good.

The Pro Flo 4 which is a much better system in my opinion although a bit more $$. The port injection puts the fuel closer to where it needs to be and it adjusts to AFR fast. Had a couple issues initially with the MAP sensor but at least you can replace those easily. It takes a bit more work to install and wire the Pro flo than the TBI units for sure.

Compared to the Fitech I found the Pro Flo system very intuitive and easy to setup/adjust through the app. The interface is wireless bluetooth connection on a tablet or Iphone of your choice. That is a nice feature for sure.

To each their own...that is my experience with aftermarket EFI so far.

Cheers

[Bentley]

Yes I also went with the Pro flo 4 after struggling for a year or so with a Fitech.

Agreed carbs may be able to produce more peak power at times if you are a good tuner (with lots of parts) but my opinion reliability in all conditions is probably what is needed 99% of the time for a daily or weekend cruiser. However to really get into carb tuning you should probably have an AFR guage for reference (like what EFI does haha). Don't get me wrong I liked making adjustments to the carbs over the years but that can be frustrating and time consuming too. Depends on your overall goals, knowledge level, and use for the vehicle is I guess.

With my Fitech I kept getting a fault on the O2 sensor which would lock up the self learn and also the cold starts were kind of rough. Played around for hours researching the settings and what they do and tweaking them. Ended up changing out the ECU (as there were a few bad ones apparently) to get rid of the fault but the problems returned and I gave up on it. Mixed reviews on the Fitech. It seems some people out there have them working good.

The Pro Flo 4 which is a much better system in my opinion although a bit more $$. The port injection puts the fuel closer to where it needs to be and it adjusts to AFR fast. Had a couple issues initially with the MAP sensor but at least you can replace those easily. It takes a bit more work to install and wire the Pro flo than the TBI units for sure.

Compared to the Fitech I found the Pro Flo system very intuitive and easy to setup/adjust through the app. The interface is wireless bluetooth connection on a tablet or Iphone of your choice. That is a nice feature for sure.

To each their own...that is my experience with aftermarket EFI so far.

Cheers

After reading this comment by you, and you say that adjusting a carb is time consuming???
I constantly read posts by people who are " chasing pin #62" and spend what seems like weeks diagnosing a problem with fuel injection??

Don't get me wrong, I understand how a correct FI system is really nice as I have a couple of them on my daily drivers.. BUT, I constantly see people saying they want to " get more horsepower" by installing an FI system, and my point above is that is not the way to gain horsepower in the real world..

I am 68 and not quite ready for Lawrence Welk yet.... I grew up on Carbs and FI is a bit too complicated at this stage of my life.... LOL

[gr79]

Is Geritol for tired blood still made? Did they cure Neuritis Neuralgia? Never hear of those terms anymore.
Helps having the 'green thumb' doing carbs or fi. Instructions mean tolerating read and learn homework time.
How well they are written and how well product is designed.
Carbs are good allow basic tune and tinker adjustments, jets, the rest is fixed pretty close at 1/2 cost and time of FI.
Aftermarket FI has so many variable technical settings. Factory FI does too but is already calibrated by engineers.
Carbs and FI can be complicated to understand. Dealing with limp home modes in both.
I feel FI is harder having to work with computer language or software and interconnected parts scattered everywhere.

[Merc331]

Watch some " Nicks Garage" youtube videos... All of the comparison dyno runs I have seen the Carb will produce more HP than the FI....

I'll disagree with that all day long but the Carb vs. EFI making more power was not the point I was making. I had a Barry Grant Silver Claw 740cfm carb on for many years...it was great for road racing (after lots of modifications to reduce fuel bowl slosh) but it sucked for legal road driving. Then I switched to the ProProducts Powejection 3 fuel injection but it had all sorts of issues...reason why it's discontinued...but the throttle body with built in injectors have the same driveability issues that carburetors have i.e. fuel puddling, uneven fuel distribution to name a few. Switching to Sequential multi port fuel injection solves all those inherent issues. To say aftermarket fuel injection is problem free would be ignorant but the driveability from idle to wot on a consistent basis is hard to surpass with any carburetor. Two major components were changed when upgrading to the Edelbrock ProFlo 4 kit, one being, getting rid of my ported Victor Jr. intake and installing the Super Victor. The second was the 1000cfm throttle body. One would need the "Engine Masters" crew to do individual and combined engine dyno testing to see their actual gains but when combined with MPFI and Edelbrocks tuning software they definitely make more power than both my previous combinations.

But as I stated before, the goal wasn't searching for more power, I had plenty for my intended use of "street" driving. I comfortably made a 400 mile roundtrip without a single issue in all sorts of conditions. That alone was an experience worth the cost of the fuel injection system.

[Hans]

Dear OP,
Now you can consider the CarbCheater.
For 380 bucks you get many EFI benefits but keep your carb.


Verstuurd vanaf mijn CPH2219 met Tapatalk

[Sask84gt]

Dear OP,
Now you can consider the CarbCheater.
For 380 bucks you get many EFI benefits but keep your carb.


Verstuurd vanaf mijn CPH2219 met Tapatalk

Thats interesting, still have to be decent at tuning carbs though for it to work. That’s my understanding anyways. Also Holley just released the Sniper 2 which looks pretty cool.

[85foxinva]

Hey again guys. My '85 is almost ready. It's been a couple months waiting since it's a small two man shop that has more than a few projects happening at a time (Mustang Don's facebook,Bryan's '85 pics). I decided to go with the Edelbrock system for its reliability with cold starts, no vapor lock..etc. For referece, the original Holley 4180c kept flooding and I really did'nt get to enjoy driving it more than a mile or so from home. It's getting a complete fuel system replacement from new tank to all neccessary components. I'm not at all chasing horsepower and not concerned about how much faster (or slower) it might be, just want to be able to get in and go.

[Bentley]

But as I stated before, the goal wasn't searching for more power, I had plenty for my intended use of "street" driving. I comfortably made a 400 mile roundtrip without a single issue in all sorts of conditions. That alone was an experience worth the cost of the fuel injection system.

My reason for the comment was that I do see ALOT of comments about " I am going FI for more HP".. While there are many benefits to going FI, Horsepower is NOT one of them......

[85foxinva]

Update: Finally got my '85 back yesterday. Just took it out for a quick ride up the street and she drove great! I'll give my honest opinion of the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 after I get to put some miles on it, but she starts right up and idles nicely. I admit I've been a little anxious, because I've never been able to go more than a mile from home before changing over to EFI. I look forward to seeing how the system holds up over time and I'll share the journey.

[Scott Peters]

Glad that your mustang is back on the road.
I am curious though, it you don’t mind telling us
what the total cost from start to finish was including labor?
Thanks,
Scott

[85foxinva]

The total was close to $12k, keeping in mind I had the entire fuel system replaced. EFI fuel tank, fuel pump, all new lines etc to support the Pro Flo 4 system which was $2500 alone. The shop did have to do some fabrications as well. Also had the coolant and brake fluid flushed and filled. Not an inexpensive job, but so far the car runs great and the Pro Flo 4 has been awesome. I have yet to take her on an extended drive though.

[79Coupe]

I went with Holley Sniper Stealth for my 82 GT with 351W. It was about 3k but that includes the Sniper Stealth, Fuel system, new gas tank, tank straps, distributor and ignition box. Tuning is limited with the Sniper, but I'm not looking for max HP or anything. Also need to run an additional temp sensor (mine is inline right after the bypass on the intake) if you want a temp gauge and the EFI. I also wrapped the ECU in copper tape and insulated the wiring from interference. That costs a few extra bucks, but not a lot.

I also have a few other cars with carbs that will stay carb. I'm not hardcore one way or the other, it just depends on your goals and preference. Sniper is NOT hard to get working and it's less hassle (IMO) than setting your electric choke and re-jetting.

[Scott Peters]

Thanks 85inva. I always wondered what the real cost was.
I think most people forget about the other mods you have to do
in order to get a F. I. System working correctly, especially if you cannot due
the job yourself.
Luckily for me, a carb change solved all my problems.
Please keep us informed once you really get her out for an extended ride .
Scott

[85foxinva]

Yeah Scott, I had neither the space or know-how to do the job myself. I consider myself a somewhat do it yourselfer when it comes to most things automotive as long as its not too intensive or requiring any specialized tools etc. A Carb replacement would have been a good option for me as well, but I wanted the reliability of the Pro Flo and avoid issues such as vapor lock and cold starts. So, I was willing to take the financial hit. I think the beauty of this forum is that most of the people here in my experience are real car guys and love our fox bodies,and are quick to give advice and kuddos. As well as giving some great feedback. I'll try to take some engine bay pics to show how my stock air cleaner "hides" the Pro Flo underneath it.