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  1. #26

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    Today I decided to see if I could locate a build sheet and anything else that may have been left under the rug....lets just say it was a treasure trove of things.

    I looked under the driver side carpet and the build sheet was not there BUT I found a line repair sheet that showed numerous repairs that were done (thank fogr79 for the idea that there might be something besides a build sheet). Looks like there were repairs to the D/S Sail panel, quarter window, "A" Pillar and header and something with the wipers... at the least. Possibly some paint work as well.

    I looked under the passenger side carpet and the build sheet was there intact (maybe dirty and discolored but there). I got it out in 1 piece very carefully.

    Under the rear seat I found at least 10 nuts they use for the sail panel and or quarter glass and a few other miscellaneous items that are in the pics. A few rubber bands form the Reagan administration. 1983 quarter (under the seat not the carpet). Obviously they had to remove the sail panel and maybe quarter window on the assembly line and then reattach it with new nuts. Worker left all the stuff on the floor and then carpet was laid. Under rear seat I also found the backing of the SVO passenger door sticker for the tire pressure etc...see the pic

    This is what is probable and there might be more that is not listed.

    Both the "repair sheet" and the "Build sheet" show "Rotation 5505" which I think is the shift that works on it

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  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by emerygt350 View Post
    it is mig welding that made that slug. I seriously don't think it was a kosher weld job, any real welder would have just clamped the metal plates together and spotted it nicely, not boogered across the gap like that. It would not be an expensive repair to get it cleaned up if you want to do that some day. It's not going anywhere.
    probably, I dont know what they were using back then BUT just for comparison purposes these 2 pictures are from this car and are under the hood. The hood front reinforcement is attached on both sides of the center. The SVO hood is different and this may or may not be the case on other Mustangs. Look at the spaced blobs of weld that are uses. This is the SAME on ALL SVOs. My 86 1D is identical in this aspect. Looks kind of familiar to the "repair" we are talking about.

    I agree wholeheartedly that the repair looks cruddy but I do think it is possible it was done before car was delivered. Who knows, this is just car talk and guys spreading knowledge and opinions which is what I love about forums

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  3. #28

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    There were known issues with the side trim being installed incorrectly and causing the trim to pucker and crack. I had a 85.5 SVO with this issue, less than 500 miles on the car....Ford pulled the car back to the dealer, sent a regional tech rep to review, and had a painted part overnighted to the dealership for replacement. All in all, took about 11 days from drop off to pick up. Dealer gave me a year of free oil changes and detail services while the car was in for service.

    The hood repair did not happen at Ford, nor the dealer, before the car was sold as new.


    Bill S.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
    There were known issues with the side trim being installed incorrectly and causing the trim to pucker and crack. I had a 85.5 SVO with this issue, less than 500 miles on the car....Ford pulled the car back to the dealer, sent a regional tech rep to review, and had a painted part overnighted to the dealership for replacement. All in all, took about 11 days from drop off to pick up. Dealer gave me a year of free oil changes and detail services while the car was in for service.

    The hood repair did not happen at Ford, nor the dealer, before the car was sold as new.


    Bill S.

    Bill, there is NO hood repair here. I just showed the picture as a reference to a repair on the radiator support. The pic of the hood is the way it came from Ford. Both my SVOs are identical on the way it shows as others I have seen.

  5. #30

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    Rotations Number on the build sheet was the original sequence number of the car as it traveled on the trim & chassis assembly line. The vehicle in front it it was rotations number 5504 and behind it was 5506.
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  6. #31

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    The welds on the hood are normal. The slug on the front is not. Again, it's doing the job, so I wouldn't worry. Some day have it cleaned up. It's a rare and important car, but that bad weld is t hurting anything. If it is a terrible problem, we can trade. I wouldn't mind trying some 4 cyl turbo fun . Love all the great stuff you found under the carpet.
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  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by scenarioL113 View Post
    here is a pic and video folder of the car

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/XSyc1R97DwWFwNnE8

    What an absolute BEAUT'

    Gosh I love SVO's.
    1986 Mustang GT - 2A, 5 Sp
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  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by scenarioL113 View Post
    Bill, there is NO hood repair here. I just showed the picture as a reference to a repair on the radiator support. The pic of the hood is the way it came from Ford. Both my SVOs are identical on the way it shows as others I have seen.
    Tough to see on my Iphone at the time, yes, I can see it better on the laptop today.

    Hood, just fine
    Radiator support and overspray shown before cleanup, all done after the car left the factory and selling dealer at day 1 of the cars life with it's first owner.

    Bill S.

  9. #34

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    Probably, I would like to know what was fixed regarding the Header on the repair sheet that also appears to reference that the paint was signed off after the repair.

    The repair sheet which was found under the driverside carpet and references a few items including the louver (I think that is the sail panel) as well as the "Header" and a "Fitment issue" of some sort and I will say that the Header is the front radiator support/headlight support and area that general area and components...

    Maybe a Ford assembly line worker would know what all that meant, I can only guess

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by scenarioL113 View Post

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    Frank,

    In this picture, is that white overspray on the hood latch release mechanism?
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  11. #36

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    Its up on the lift rt now, I tried to look but could not tell. The picture is not good. I think it could be. Is it supposed to be gray? Most of what I can see is gray. The lighting sucks in the pics but shows gray in person. The loop might be overspray but cant tell atm. I will get a few better pics. The car has def had some paint work.
    I have looked the entire car over from top to bottom and everything I see looks to be good. No signs of any body work that I can see except for some paint. The car has not been messed with in any way. I am doing the rag joint now and am afraid touch anything bc it is so perfect.

    On the rear suspension arms there is like white chalky material that looks like paint but it rubs off. Like the dash flocking has a bit of that goin on and I believe it to be mold.

    When I have good lighting I will post good pics and video of what I see.

    Car sat for 20yrs 2002-2022 in a garage (supposedly climate controlled)
    Last edited by scenarioL113; 03-02-2023 at 05:42 PM.

  12. #37

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    The hood latch release mechanism should be bare metal. I typically do a light phosphate and oil on them to get the original appearance.

    The rear suspension (upper and lower control arms) are galvanized, so I would not be surprised to have some light oxidation there from the metal. Clean with mild soap and water and apply a rust preventive treatment like Boshield.
    86 SVO 2R Comp Prep
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  13. #38

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    I spoke to the original owner in length today so I have the complete history of this car from new. The repair on the hood, he was not even aware of it and assured me 100% that the car came that way. He worked at Ford. The Form AAD-7238 which was under the driver carpet specifically mentions "a" front header problem and fitment issue. Among a few other things.
    I believe that to be true because when the cars are sprayed there is a "peppering" of the car color paint in the hard to reach areas. The base color of all the cars is GRAY and the gray shows thru on the hard to reach areas when the car gets painted. This is of special note to look at on the undercarriage of a NON-undercoated car. This peppering is actually attempted to be duplicated on super high end restorations. The peppering is a way to verify if original or not. The peppering of this particular area is consistent to the entire car and there is no way of duplicating that.

    The overspray in the wheelwells was from these mudflap guard things he had installed that have since been removed. They sadly were drilled into the wheel well so there are 2 extra screw holes at all four corners.

    On another note....I ask you all that have pre-87 Fox Mustangs...have you really looked close at the entire cars. I have 2 of them and they both have some very crude welds going on. Look at you door hinge bracket that is attached and welded to the door. Tell me how nice that looks...or doesnt look is more like it. Look in your rear wheel wells and there are some parts that are spot welded BUT they may have a few mig welds if a spot was missed. This is another example of QC.

    It is quite obvious that there are quality control on the assembly line and when a spot weld is missed they come in with a mig or some kind of portable welder and give it a shot or two. I never in the past have looked so closely before but the more I look at both my cars...AND at my donor car (1991 Fox) I can see the imperfections. The welds got better as the years went on and were more pretty on the 1991. Obviously when they inspect on the assembly line if a spot weld was missed they probably cant get the spot machine robot back into position bc other panels have been added etc...

    There is also the cars built on a Friday or a car build on a Monday things as well. Early and mid 80's QC was not what it is today.

    I drove the car today for a bit and WOW. Drives like brand new. I cant believe how nice it drives and how tight everything is...

    I am attaching some spot/mig welded areas that are crude but FACTORY Door hinge areas and the rear wheel well attachment points
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  14. #39

  15. #40

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    These are pictured from 3 differnt Fox Mustangs and 3 different years (1985,1986,1991). Plenty of slag, plenty of mig wire, plenty NOT cleaned up. Go look at you fox and let me know how they look....I tend to think they are gonna look a bit like this... The one pic on the 91 (rear wheel area) only has 1 yes ONE tiny hit with the MIG and no spot welds....
    These are all factory original parts and areas


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  16. #41

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    A little update to the story here. My niece's father in law was a Ford Engineer that worked on the Fox Platform and worked 30 years for Ford. I emailed him the pictures that are in this thread and he confirmed that this type of repair was done by Ford BEFORE the car went to the paint department.

    I will copy and paste his email he sent me but in a nut shell he said that when a spot weld was missed it would be flagged and sent to a different bay for the repair BEFORE paint. Either a spotweld gun was not available or it was an inaccessible area for whatever reason and would then be welded by hand to fix.

    On another note the 85.5 Mustang SVO was the most sought after limited production car that had 10 times the dealers asking for them then they had cars available. This particular Mustang SVO was only the 11th one built so maybe they were rushing it through for demand...who knows

    QUOTE...

    "Hi Frank,Sorry for not getting back with you right away. I was away for about three weeks and had a ton of email to go through. To add to that, I just started a new job last week and haven't had the time to catch up.
    Anyway, here's my analysis of what seems to have happened. Your assessment is right on. Back in the eighties, when much of the spot welds were manually applied, it was common for the operator to mislocate or sometimes miss a weld. The quality inspector then flags the body prior to paint and sends it to the repair bay while still on a skid. In the repair bay, they either don't have spot weld guns or the location where the spot weld was supposed to be is inaccessible and the only way to get a joint is to seam weld it.
    Your second question is about numbers and letters. Major body stampings and major assemblies like engines and transmissions are produced by the parent company, in this case, Ford. Most other components are purchased. Suppliers are required to put some numbers or letters to track the part to them in case of a recall or a durability issue. In addition to supplier identification, parts have a "Julian" date. You can search that on the net but essentially, it is the year and the numerical date. For example January 1, 2023 is 23001. January 31, 2023 is 23031. February 1, 2023 is 23032. See how that works?
    Hope this was helpful. Looks like your car was not in an accident and repaired but repaired in the factory before coming off the end of the line.
    Let me know if you have further questions.
    Best wishes,
    Abe"

    END QUOTE...


    Between the repair sheet and the Ford Engineers input there is NO DOUBT the car came off the assembly line as the pictures show.

    In a follow up email, Abe (the Ford Engineer) stated that the car with the documented repair sheet is a part of history

    "Thanks so much. It's very interesting. A part of history. Keep all the paperwork. It will be worth it some day!Best wishes,
    Abe"
    Last edited by scenarioL113; 03-07-2023 at 11:45 PM.

  17. #42

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    I realize you want the “repair ar ford plant” story to stick, but the radiator support would not have passed final QC for shipping out, even to the Ford employee lot.

    As for the SVO being a hot seller, now, yes, but back in the day, at least in the northeast, they generally sat on the dealer lots until discounted.. production of the 5.0L vs the SVO numbers prove this out. My time arranging cars for local mustang club shows in the NY/NJ/PA area, and my interaction with the dealer networks and regional Ford marketing gave me a lot of insight in that time period.

    Yet still, being the 11th car is still cool, focus on that, as a lot can happen to a car before it ever hits the retail lot. I say this as the guy who used to grab cars like yours for those shows, either directly from Ford marketing, or the dealers lot, and drive them to the shows, in my early twenties

    Bill S.

  18. #43
    FEP Super Member Bryan Knebworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
    Yet still, being the 11th car is still cool, focus on that, as a lot can happen to a car before it ever hits the retail lot. I say this as the guy who used to grab cars like yours for those shows, either directly from Ford marketing, or the dealers lot, and drive them to the shows, in my early twenties

    Bill S.
    Holy cow, Ford used to give you cars to bring to shows? I'd love a job like that
    Last edited by Bryan Knebworth; 03-22-2023 at 10:14 AM. Reason: sp

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
    I realize you want the “repair ar ford plant” story to stick, but the radiator support would not have passed final QC for shipping out, even to the Ford employee lot.

    As for the SVO being a hot seller, now, yes, but back in the day, at least in the northeast, they generally sat on the dealer lots until discounted.. production of the 5.0L vs the SVO numbers prove this out. My time arranging cars for local mustang club shows in the NY/NJ/PA area, and my interaction with the dealer networks and regional Ford marketing gave me a lot of insight in that time period.

    Yet still, being the 11th car is still cool, focus on that, as a lot can happen to a car before it ever hits the retail lot. I say this as the guy who used to grab cars like yours for those shows, either directly from Ford marketing, or the dealers lot, and drive them to the shows, in my early twenties

    Bill S.
    Yeah I get it. So your saying The guy who worked there and is engineer on the platform who clearly says otherwise... so your saying he does not know what he is talking about???...OK.

    That is what you are saying just to be clear

    I made a statement about the car when I first posted based on my "opinion". I am no expert. Then I dug into the car and found the repair sheet, then I contacted a Ford engineer to get his analysis and sent him hi resolution pictures.

    I now base my opinion on actual evidence plain and simple. Anything else is opinion. I agree my gut initially was with your opinion

    So, I ask...What is Fords 1985 REJECTION protocol on QC to fail something on the line??? Back it up if you disagree bc otherwise we all got opinions
    Last edited by scenarioL113; 03-08-2023 at 09:33 AM.

  20. #45

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    Here is a few pics form my 1991 Fox LX. Look at these missed welds ann the panel is not even in contact with the frame rail...somehow this passed QC with a few slugs from a MIG.

    There is DAYLIGHT between the frame rail and the connecting bracket....this is a structural member. I ask, how was this let by... maybe their QC back then is not what some think it actually was.

    The more I look at these things with my own eyes the more my eyes are opening up to the attention to detail back then to what it is today.

    I get my hands dirty and have restored cars and do everything myself (everything), this is not coming from some kid on a keyboard that polishes the fenders on a car he just bought. I always think not just twice but more when I make comments and if I cant back it up then I wont say it

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  21. #46
    FEP Senior Member rodster's Avatar
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    My 84 SVO had some paint issues as is evident from the paint traveler I found in the trunk.

    By comparison my 83 TBird had much better quality than my 84 SVO.
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  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodster View Post
    My 84 SVO had some paint issues as is evident from the paint traveler I found in the trunk.

    By comparison my 83 TBird had much better quality than my 84 SVO.
    This is what I like to see. These are things that we can learn from about the cars and am glad you have shared your "paint traveler". I would like to have a database of AAD sheets that have been left in cars that needed repairs on the assembly line. It would be interesting to see what is out there

    Funny thing is that when I went to the body guy the other day, he talked about how the paint jobs back then were not that great. I pointed out some imperfections and he told me straight out that cars came that way and the single stage paint does not tolerate not being taken care of that well. I have some imperfections on one area and I think it is solvent pop or something and he said it was prob from armor-all that was over sprayed in the wheel well that attacked the paint a bit and caused some of it.
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  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by scenarioL113 View Post
    Yeah I get it. So your saying The guy who worked there and is engineer on the platform who clearly says otherwise... so your saying he does not know what he is talking about???...OK.

    That is what you are saying just to be clear

    I made a statement about the car when I first posted based on my "opinion". I am no expert. Then I dug into the car and found the repair sheet, then I contacted a Ford engineer to get his analysis and sent him hi resolution pictures.

    I now base my opinion on actual evidence plain and simple. Anything else is opinion. I agree my gut initially was with your opinion

    So, I ask...What is Fords 1985 REJECTION protocol on QC to fail something on the line??? Back it up if you disagree bc otherwise we all got opinions
    I'm not getting into a online shouting match with you, nor will I take your posting style or attitude as a personal attack, instead, I'll explain it from the QC side, having spent time at the dealerships, and working with the dealerships, when these cars were new, and coming off the trucks as new. That, along with personally knowing several Ford employees who's job #1 was at the end of the QC line, just before the cars left the building, and ended up in the holding lot before they were loaded on to the trucks/train for shipment across the world. I can then follow up with the personal knowledge of how the shippers handled the damage in shipping (most shippers have regional repair facilities, or in the case of cars coming in from overseas, actual repair facilities near the shipping ports and holding lots).......The difference being, hands on experience in the process, face to face personnel on the ground working this day in and day out, and not an engineer who may have never stepped foot on the production or shipping floor space in his/her lifetime at Ford Motor Company. You and I can go round and round here on the forum if you like, but in your case, you have something to prove that bodes to the ultimate value of your car, where I do not have a personal stake in the car, or it's value and back story as told by you and "an engineer from Ford". In closing, while some things could get by Ford QC, the damage shown in the pictures you posted, especially the radiator/headlight support structure, would have been sent for subsequent tear down and replacement, or better hand massaging to the point it was not noticeable at all. If damaged in transit, then there would be external damage, in which case, there would be witness marks of panel repair, or panel replacement, with panel dates out of the known date ranges. There are a few other items I have not mentioned online, won't do so unless face to face, as I do not want to educate others who may have a nefarious reason for certain things (not you, in any way, shape, or form) being out there and reading this. Those that hold Gold Card Judge status may know what I'm alluding to in the pictures posted, most others will not.

    I'll leave it at that.

    Bill S.

  24. #49
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
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    Mine got some horrible welds too.
    And the kit applied on the underside of the hood is laughable .

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  25. #50

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    Sheesh talk about splitting hairs and going down a rabbit hole. Good lord, I thought I was anal.
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