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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Default door panel carton backing wont hold locating push pins anymore

    I know we've all had this issue before.

    one or more of the push pins that hold the door panel to the door separate from the slot in the carton that should hold it.

    I tried those new replacement cartons on my last door panels and was very unhappy with the result. They came with no template or instructions to place them so I did the best I could and it still ended up mis aligning all the pins that were attached to the new carton and it forced me to drill all new holes.

    Recently I got used door panels off ebay and they were in exceptionally good condition. I SEM painted them to match my interior and they look great. But of course, some of the pins wont stay in the carton backing and the panel is separating from the door. Here's a pic of the driver side which has 2 next to each other making it noticeably bad.

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    The car has to go to the body shop to fix a paint blister around the door lock so the panel has to come off again anyway. So has anyone come up with a clever fix for this condition that doesn't involve replacing the whole backing carton. Its literally a few spots that if fixed, the door will function perfect.

    On my old panels, I tried painters tape around the locating pins after they were slipped into the slots. But the glue on the tape always wears out fast. Could try Gorilla duct tape? I'm open to better suggestions.

  2. #2
    FEP Power Member 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Default

    Hot glue the fasteners into the door panel.

  3. #3
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Not 100% sure, but it appears the plastic fasteners might be part of the issue. There are other similar christmas tree fasteners that have a slightly larger head diameter that may hold better in the door panel backer board.

    If the backer board panel holes are just too worn, the other option is the 3M Dual-Lock Velcro. You can pick up a box of squares at most Home Depot/Lowe's.

    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/dual-loc...-fasteners-us/
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  4. #4

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    Dual lock is no joke. I have used it in some applications with great success
    79 Zephyr, 4.6L 4v/4r70w swap, with team z front and rear suspension, 8.8 and upgraded brakes and coil overs. Running Holley Terminator X Max.

  5. #5
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Not 100% sure, but it appears the plastic fasteners might be part of the issue. There are other similar christmas tree fasteners that have a slightly larger head diameter that may hold better in the door panel backer board.

    If the backer board panel holes are just too worn, the other option is the 3M Dual-Lock Velcro. You can pick up a box of squares at most Home Depot/Lowe's.

    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/dual-loc...-fasteners-us/

    How would the velcro apply to the slots to hold the locating pins in place? Im having trouble visualizing it.

  6. #6
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    How would the velcro apply to the slots to hold the locating pins in place? Im having trouble visualizing it.
    You would not use the push pins. You would attach either a long strip of the Velcro to the backer board panel and the opposite side to the inner door shell. The other option would be to use the small squares and position them in between where the push pins go on the backer board panel and then again the opposite side would go on the door panel. Essentially you would no longer need the push pins at least in the area that is causing you issues now.

    One recommendation if going this route would be to make sure the Velcro is positioned slightly more towards the inside to help hide it from view on the edge. The Velcro is relatively thin, but if too close to the edge it might be visible when completely installed.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  7. #7

    Default

    And with Velcro there is no damage done. You can always try something different later.

    I was working on my doors the other day and was astonished that those stupid plastic trees were still holding the cardboard.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear.
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    You would not use the push pins. You would attach either a long strip of the Velcro to the backer board panel and the opposite side to the inner door shell. The other option would be to use the small squares and position them in between where the push pins go on the backer board panel and then again the opposite side would go on the door panel. Essentially you would no longer need the push pins at least in the area that is causing you issues now.

    One recommendation if going this route would be to make sure the Velcro is positioned slightly more towards the inside to help hide it from view on the edge. The Velcro is relatively thin, but if too close to the edge it might be visible when completely installed.
    I see what you're saying. That makes great sense. Thanks.

  9. #9

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    I would reinforce the cardboard door panel with a layer of fiberglass around the slots where the pins go. It could be thin enough that the pins would still fit. Or if needed, the cardboard panel could be thinned at the pin slots (maybe by sanding/dremeling off a little thickness) so a slightly thicker layer of fiberglass could be added, but not be too thick where the pin wouldn't slide over it.

    I've reinforced/fixed a few things over the years with fiberglass and it usually works real well. Not hard to work with once you do it. Kits are available pretty cheap at parts stores or even wally world. It can be messy though!
    1985 Mustang GT (Currently mothballed, but acquiring parts)

  10. #10
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I personally have not had very good luck between fiberglass and the pressboard/fiberboard of the door panels. Often it just crumbles away from the fiberglass not matter what I have tried. If your experience differs, then it might be worth a try.

    Another repair I have done on a few door panel backer boards, although it usually requires some sewing or additional gluing/stapling, is to use a thin sheet of metal on the vinyl side of the door panel backer board under the material. I cut out the shape of the door panel clips in the metal aligned with the backer board. Glue/Bond the metal to the backer board as needed. Then reinstall the door panel material/carpet over the reinforced backer board. The large area of the sheet metal distributes the tension on the backer board and the high strength of the metal will prevent the clips from pulling through. The thin sheet metal will not normally be noticed under the door panel material due to the scrim padding material and since it is on the opposite side of the door shell it doesn't cause any fitment issues with the clips due to any increased thickness.

    I have actually thought of making a CAD file of the door panel backer board that could be cut out on a CNC plasma or CNC waterjet machine to use instead of the standard pressboard/fiberboard. Install a thin layer of sound deadening foam and you shouldn't have any squeaking/rattling/metal to metal issues.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    I personally have not had very good luck between fiberglass and the pressboard/fiberboard of the door panels. Often it just crumbles away from the fiberglass not matter what I have tried. If your experience differs, then it might be worth a try.

    Another repair I have done on a few door panel backer boards, although it usually requires some sewing or additional gluing/stapling, is to use a thin sheet of metal on the vinyl side of the door panel backer board under the material. I cut out the shape of the door panel clips in the metal aligned with the backer board. Glue/Bond the metal to the backer board as needed. Then reinstall the door panel material/carpet over the reinforced backer board. The large area of the sheet metal distributes the tension on the backer board and the high strength of the metal will prevent the clips from pulling through. The thin sheet metal will not normally be noticed under the door panel material due to the scrim padding material and since it is on the opposite side of the door shell it doesn't cause any fitment issues with the clips due to any increased thickness.

    I have actually thought of making a CAD file of the door panel backer board that could be cut out on a CNC plasma or CNC waterjet machine to use instead of the standard pressboard/fiberboard. Install a thin layer of sound deadening foam and you shouldn't have any squeaking/rattling/metal to metal issues.
    I see your point, and it's a good one. I have not used fiberglass on a door panel board. Multiple surfaces, but not that. Certainly the door panel board would have to be in sound shape (besides the "torn" clip slots), otherwise, as you said, the board material would just crumble away.

    I do like your idea of the metal reinforcement for the slot, bonded to the board. I don't need them, at least not yet, as my door panels are in great shape, but I think that is a future project item that I may pursue fabricating.

    How much bigger than the slot do you think would be good? Maybe a 1/2", 3/4" or so on the 3 non-edge sides? That should provide enough bonding area to secure them, but not interfere with anything nearby, you think? Was thinking about .030 or .040 aluminum. Your thoughts?

    Eventually, the plan would be to get some fabbed on a cnc punch press at my work.
    1985 Mustang GT (Currently mothballed, but acquiring parts)

  12. #12

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    I feel like if someone offered a plastic version it would sell like hotcakes
    79 Zephyr, 4.6L 4v/4r70w swap, with team z front and rear suspension, 8.8 and upgraded brakes and coil overs. Running Holley Terminator X Max.

  13. #13

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    Sounds like a good project for someone that has a 3D printer....
    1985 Mustang GT (Currently mothballed, but acquiring parts)

  14. #14
    FEP Power Member mcb82gt's Avatar
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    That pourous cardboard is like soft rotted wood. They have a product at home improvement places that you just spray on and soak it. It hardens like a rock. I bet that would work well.
    Mike

    Now stang-less.

    88 Cougar 5.0

  15. #15
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85GTGuy View Post
    I see your point, and it's a good one. I have not used fiberglass on a door panel board. Multiple surfaces, but not that. Certainly the door panel board would have to be in sound shape (besides the "torn" clip slots), otherwise, as you said, the board material would just crumble away.

    I do like your idea of the metal reinforcement for the slot, bonded to the board. I don't need them, at least not yet, as my door panels are in great shape, but I think that is a future project item that I may pursue fabricating.

    How much bigger than the slot do you think would be good? Maybe a 1/2", 3/4" or so on the 3 non-edge sides? That should provide enough bonding area to secure them, but not interfere with anything nearby, you think? Was thinking about .030 or .040 aluminum. Your thoughts?

    Eventually, the plan would be to get some fabbed on a cnc punch press at my work.
    If I did a repair, I would probably do a strip @ 3-4" wide going down the side from top to bottom in the situation above. Making sure that the metal reinforcement covers not only the bad clip holes, but also a good one on the other side for maximum strength. Most likely the .030 or .040 aluminum would be plenty. I don't play with sheet metal enough anymore to remember thickness to stiffness/strength so I would probably have to touch and feel it to make sure it was thick enough to not just deform or bend when installing. Most likely would be able to use slightly thinner sheet metal than aluminum, just need to make sure it doesn't rust long term.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  16. #16
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massacre View Post
    I feel like if someone offered a plastic version it would sell like hotcakes
    Quote Originally Posted by 85GTGuy View Post
    Sounds like a good project for someone that has a 3D printer....
    I have considered making some for myself out of a sheet of ABS and just cutting the necessary openings by hand (trim router/drill bits), but haven't had time just yet.

    Not sure that 3D printing would be cost effective. Someone with a laser or water jet could cut these out using sheets of ABS or similar plastic much quicker and most likely not only better, but much cheaper than 3d printing. At least in my opinion.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  17. #17

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    Totally agree.
    Modern door panels seem to be made of ABS plastic, i don't see a reason why it wouldn't work in this application?
    I guess the question would be what thickness to use?
    79 Zephyr, 4.6L 4v/4r70w swap, with team z front and rear suspension, 8.8 and upgraded brakes and coil overs. Running Holley Terminator X Max.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    If I did a repair, I would probably do a strip @ 3-4" wide going down the side from top to bottom in the situation above. Making sure that the metal reinforcement covers not only the bad clip holes, but also a good one on the other side for maximum strength. Most likely the .030 or .040 aluminum would be plenty. I don't play with sheet metal enough anymore to remember thickness to stiffness/strength so I would probably have to touch and feel it to make sure it was thick enough to not just deform or bend when installing. Most likely would be able to use slightly thinner sheet metal than aluminum, just need to make sure it doesn't rust long term.
    Yea, that's a better idea.... spanning more than one hole. I was thinking individual hole reinforcements. I'll have to take a closer look at the hole layout and spacing.

    Was thinking aluminum strictly from a rustproof standpoint. I have access to some relatively thin sheet steel also. It's galvanized so the main surfaces won't rust, but any cut edges (trim shearing and punched holes) expose unprotected metal, which quickly develops corrosion. That may not be too much of a problem though, since it's on the inside of the door, with the watershields helping keep moisture away from that side of the door panel. Still, would probably feel better about having a rustproof material there in the long run.


    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Not sure that 3D printing would be cost effective. Someone with a laser or water jet could cut these out using sheets of ABS or similar plastic much quicker and most likely not only better, but much cheaper than 3d printing. At least in my opinion.
    Was actually thinking of a board member or someone's friend that was into 3D printing as a hobby..... not a commercial printing service, where it would cost real money. Just someone doing it as an experiment or playing around.

    Plus, that was when I was thinking about individual hole reinforcements. The 3D hobby printers that a couple of my friends made, have a smaller bed that (I think) may not be capable of printing long, strip type items.

    Quote Originally Posted by massacre View Post
    Totally agree.
    Modern door panels seem to be made of ABS plastic, i don't see a reason why it wouldn't work in this application?
    I guess the question would be what thickness to use?
    Same thickness as the pressboard originals?? It would need to be pretty close to that so that the retaining pins fit to it correctly and snugly.
    1985 Mustang GT (Currently mothballed, but acquiring parts)

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Found an electric kitchen carving knife cuts thin plastic, foam, cleanly.
    Electric multitools and saws cut plastic fast but usually rag or melt the cut edge.
    Rotozip type tool with cutting disk prob would cut ok.
    Weatherstrip adhesive prob would hold plastic panel fasteners in the panel hole slots.
    Dries much faster than rtv or goop.

    Regular and tempered hardboard is available in several thickness 1/8"-1/4".
    When bare hardboard gets wet it warps and smells. Basically is paper.

    Small sized 3d home prints look to be a even slower process than battery charging usually is.
    Sheet goods are overall practical for panel shapes. Plastic is harder to source.
    Last edited by gr79; 08-14-2022 at 05:23 PM.

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