4 speed toploader swap?

[Broncojunkie]

I keep coming back to this idea and i don't really know why. I've planned this to the point where, at one time, I had a couple good 4 spd toploaders and a Lakewood bellhousing for bolting a toploader to sbf using a cable clutch setup.

But it dawned on me that the srod 4 spd, I believe, has the same bolt pattern as a tko. And a tko has the same pattern as a toploader. If that is correct, is it possible to use the srod bell with a toploader using the stock cable setup? I'm pretty sure guys were running toploaders in these early foxes back in the day. Was the swap really that simple?

[Broncojunkie]

Ok, after some more reading, it looks like the input shaft is shorter on the toploader. Not a big deal, I don't think. There are a couple possible work arounds. Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. I have a t5 swapped pace car. I'm considering keeping this one a 4 speed if it's feasible. The srod that's in it now seems like it has a ton of slop in it and I'm not that interested in trying to fix it.

[quickshift]

Years ago when I swapped a big block TL (which has a shorter input shaft) behind my small block, I got a crank bushing/bearing that protruded the same amount as the shaft was short. I got this from Roush Racing but assume they are more common now if you dig around.

[STL79Coupe]

Check with David Kee and see if he has anything that would work. Didn't I sell you my LW bell for the swap?

[Broncojunkie]

Check with David Kee and see if he has anything that would work. Didn't I sell you my LW bell for the swap?

I believe you did! And I ended up trading it off to another member here lol! I think I've decided to just throw a t5 in it and call it a day. I'll probably bite the bullet and eventually go with a tkx in my other pace car. No sense in grenading a good t5. They're getting harder to find and the prices are going up.

[BossP351]

I ran a wide ratio small block toploader in my 79 Ghia behind a spare parts Boss 302. It had the AFT tailshaft mount Hurst comp+ came right up where the SROD had with a Boss 429 pilot bearing and Lakewood scattershield. Trans mount was in the right location also and I trimmed the Motorsport double hump crossmember to fit the narrow 79 mount slots.

[Broncojunkie]

I ran a wide ratio small block toploader in my 79 Ghia behind a spare parts Boss 302. It had the AFT tailshaft mount Hurst comp+ came right up where the SROD had with a Boss 429 pilot bearing and Lakewood scattershield. Trans mount was in the right location also and I trimmed the Motorsport double hump crossmember to fit the narrow 79 mount slots.

Just curious, but did your Lakewood bell use the stock cable-driven clutch?

[mcfairmont]

All cars that Ford factory installed Toploaders in, used mechanical clutch linkage, and had shorter input shafts and shallower depth bellhousings, since they didn`t need the extra room to put a clutch fork across the back of the pressure plate. In my old 85 Mustang, and my 78 Fairmont, I have ran Toploader based Jerico 4 speeds for well over 20 years, however, Jerico offers longer T5 length inputs,so I have used the long inputs behind my 302, 331, and current 347 SB Ford engines, using FOX style Lakewood and McLeod scattershields with a clutch cable, and the standard length inputs when I ran my fairmont with 427 and 428 FE engines , with homebrew mechanical clutch linkage. A few years ago, I replaced the Fairmonts Jerico, with a G Force G101A 4 speed, retaining the same McLeod oft Lok clutch and scattershield that I used with the Jerico. In both transmissions, the external shifter rods and shifter head, required slicing the transmission tunnel, and bending it back, and welding in a filler strip, to provide room for the shifter and linkage. Keep in mind, this was with a LONG vertical gate shifter, maybe a street style shifter would not require as much modification to the tunnel.

[Broncojunkie]

Good info, Mcfairmont! Here's why I started this thread, though. As far as the clutch fork setup is concerned, the srod transmission is sort of a toploader with a cable driven clutch fork. If there was a longer input shaft available for a toploader, it would be easy to bolt a full-fledged toploader 4-speed to the stock srod bell. I'm just trying to figure out if there's a practical way to do it. I'm going to presume that the srod input shaft isn't compatible with an early toploader, but I do know that the srod design was basically a modification of the toploader... so I guess that would be the first thing to check.

[gr79]

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...er-in-fox-body
https://www.google.com/search?q=ford...client=gws-wiz
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/conversions.htm

[Broncojunkie]

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...er-in-fox-body
https://www.google.com/search?q=ford...client=gws-wiz
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/conversions.htm

Thanks for this link! I had read this a while back (last time I was considering a toploader). In fact, there is some info in that thread that probably nudged me away from doing the swap lol! I guess I'm approaching this from a slightly different angle this time, though. I'm a fan of the toploaders. I own several early foxes, all of which are/will be 5 speed except one. Of these cars, two are pace cars. My first pace car is t5-swapped. I started thinking it would be nice to have one that is sort of "old school" with 4 gears, just like I had when I was younger. The problem is that I'm not a fan of the srod. It's not so much the lack of strength that offends me, but the goofy gearing and no aftermarket support.

I know this was a popular swap back in the day. I just didn't know how guys were doing it. I seem to recall reading something about one such early fox owner who modified his car to use linkage like the old Fords had. That's just more trouble than it's worth. My time is money, so I could translate that into springing for a MUCH better transmission option. I do have parts to throw a t5 in it, as well. I was just considering something different.

Since no one has, evidently, done the toploader swap using the srod bell and cable clutch setup, I'm going to presume there isn't an easy or feasible way. I like the challenge, though. So I'm exploring options.

Can anyone confirm that the srod input shaft won't work with the toploader?

[gr79]

Am assuming talking about swapping out input shafts? Good question. Will post any info found.
As always, please everybody ignore anything i post and is already known or if i repeat my info again and again.
Something like a search to get near being on the same pages and go from there.

My RAD 4 speed had zero aftermarket shifter options other than the Hurst Swifter Shifter i got for it.
Have to have Hurst shifter parts in my manual trans cars. I remember the Mopar pistol grips my friends slammed on.
The Mopar A-883, GM M22 Rockcrushers. M20-M21 Muncie/396/bench seat is fun too but dont own one.
Was pretty nice while it lasted. No od made the car hard to keep up with xway traffic, now going 70 instead of fox era can't drive 55.
Then the reverse lock out broke and Hurst wont repair it. Had it welded. Needed to turn engine off to get reverse.
That is when a T5, and later on, a custom ordered Core/Hurst SST/10.5" stick assy soon replaced the RAD stuff.
No lookin back.

I figure the diff between the 4 speed RAD and T5 is not so much available gear selections, as both have 4.
Its the shifter. The RAD shifter (and prob the srod) just dont have the solid feel and gate firmness as the T5/Hurst does.
And nowhare near the feel of correctly adjusted external linkage shifters.
Shifter assy was 3 bolts and spring thing at the base. Hurst is 4 bolts, no reverse lock out the RAD shifter provided.
Really, the Hurst one i ordered feels like an old school muscle car shift assy with side linkages. No R lock out needed.
Main thing is much better feel of gates and throw than the stock T5 shifter assy.

I remember the shift feel I wanted. Family has several SS Chevelle 4 speeds and had a '80 Z28 4 sp. Loved shifting them.
Goal was to have a trans that shifted, like say, the 80 Z28 or the Chevelles. A longer lever, solid no slack short gates.
It is there. Would never know its a T-5, has positive gates, neutral, and the mechanical sounds.
Am using a 10.5" lever. Any Hurst lever will work. Since changing to longer shifter to stub bolts and nuts, lever stays bolted up solid.
Like it so much, bought a version for the Ranger. Same deal. No more slop. Boy that stock one was all over the place.
Both require a little more effort than stock to throw and relearning of gates for sure but that's what its all about. The 'heavier' feel.

[BossP351]

Just curious, but did your Lakewood bell use the stock cable-driven clutch?

Sorry, forgot to check back with you. Yes the scattershield is for a fox body with a cable clutch set up. I can't remember if I bought a Motorsport clutch fork or if it was the stock SROD. It has the correct toploader flange pattern and depth. I plan on using it with a TKX with many of the Tremec trans reportedly using the same flange pattern, apparently the mighty toploader is their great grandpa.

[Bentley]

I recently inherited an 83 GLX vert, my sister bought in 84/85.. Its a factory 5 liter with a SROD 4 speed and a 7.5 rear..
I have rebuilt a 98 Explorer motor, installing a TKX, and a bolt in 9" rear with 350 gears...
I am going to make this car a fun driver car here in Central florida.... NO more garage queens for me..
I can verify the TKX ( TKO"S are no longer being made) bolted up to the SROD bellhousing... I had one of the Tremec dealers tell me the SROD bell would not work, they are wrong....
I can't imagine having a street driven car today without overdrive.. But I am tainted from back in " the day" of 410 gears with 4 speeds and I still cringe remembering how worthless those cars were to go anywhere in.....
The 83 was complete and my sister stored this car inside ( it was her baby) after she claims it blew up in the late 90's... She drives a 911 now.... All I have found wrong was the clutch disc was destroyed, but I have not taken the heads or crank out of the original 302 yet...
I wanted a roller cam motor and felt the SROD just wasn't what I wanted and the rear ( I have done a 5 lug conversion too) was a no brainer to not put any money into, if anyone wants to know why I have gone in this direction
I am getting off track here, so I will stop... I would attach some pics here but this site will not let me ( says the pics are too large).... I can attach my pics on any other site I am on, so not sure why they do not work here..

[slow84lx]

Bentley, it sounds like your sister gave you a cool car. I'm fond of the 83's. Would love to see some pics when you are able.