California Emissions

[ZephyrEFI]

So, lazy states like mine are enacting California emissions for better or worse, rather than considering how to do it better. I know there are plenty of guys that live there on here with modified cars. I really don't know that much about it, but I guess I should probably think about this before I find myself getting tattled on with a violation hotline like California has and busted.

How do you guys do it? What rules do you absolutely have to follow and which ones can you bend? My understanding of it is, you can't modify much of anything from stock. I know it's pretty much illegal to do that stuff in my state (Minnesota) anyway, but they don't enforce that at all right now. With all the stupid electric car fever, a crackdown on offenders is not hard for me to imagine.

[KevinK]

The biggest challenge I see is finding/using Carb approved parts like Cats. Other stuff like egr valves are a real problem. Cali has different parts and really really hard to find.

[OX1]

You sure they are adopting EVERY part of Ca. auto emissions checks, exactly the way Ca. does it.
(including same year exemptions and no special categories like classic or antique that have emission exemption??)

Even jersey, that has been selling all new cars to meet Ca. emission since mid to late 2000's, exempts anything OBDI.
(which is almost all fox bodies and certainly all 4 eyes). We also have NO inspection or reg fees on registered antiques,
which is 25 years or older, and that's all 4 eyes at this point.

[ZephyrEFI]

You sure they are adopting EVERY part of Ca. auto emissions checks, exactly the way Ca. does it.
(including same year exemptions and no special categories like classic or antique that have emission exemption??)

Even jersey, that has been selling all new cars to meet Ca. emission since mid to late 2000's, exempts anything OBDI.
(which is almost all fox bodies and certainly all 4 eyes). We also have NO inspection or reg fees on registered antiques,
which is 25 years or older, and that's all 4 eyes at this point.

No, I'm not sure what exactly they plan to do. I think they are definitely planning to do like you say and make sure the NEW cars are compliant. But I do also know the US congress is considering the RPM act which deals with making (keeping?) it legal to modify a former road car into a purpose-built race car and therefore be exempt from emissions laws due to their limited use on racetracks only. In March all the youtube car channels were freaking out about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pTlDcMosKw&t=1s

Anyway, in the footage they show of one of the hearings, it seems clear to me that a lot of what we do to our cars isn't legal under 49-state rules anyway, so if some kind of enforcement begins, even on that, we all could be in big trouble. I mean, I knew that an off-road h-pipe was risky (which is why I am adding cats back onto mine), but I did NOT know that ALL emissions systems NEED to be completely UNALTERED from how they came from the factory. I believe California enforces this as well. If that is the case, I'm still screwed because my car does not have a wheezy 200 I-6 anymore. If I somehow get clear of the engine swap, am I okay with the thermactor system all removed? Despite having cats, they are not the original style cats from 1990, regardless of the fact they probably work as well or better than the original ones that require fresh air to be piped in to even work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imK3bBkjVLg&t=1s

That's why I don't see any California resident being able to do much of anything to improve performance, and I might find myself in the same boat! They'd take one look at my car, and be like "nope... "

And there's California specific EGR valves?! Why?! My car does still have its EGR system; it doesn't take up a bunch of space, and it doesn't really rob performance, so why not. But, I know my valve itself is just a parts-store replacement.

[OX1]

No, I'm not sure what exactly they plan to do.

So far, no emission testing according to this.


https://www.dmv.com/mn/minnesota/emi...&pg_tc=captcha

Do you have a link that says they are going to start?

[KevinK]

In CA, there are some gray areas that bring up a lot of discussion. While CA spec emissions was done as sold new and it kind of makes sense to maintain that spec and not mix it with the 49 state spec. What get confusing is 49 state spec parts cannot be sold in CA but the cars are permitted to be registered in CA as used cars. They are inspected as 49 state emission standards with cars that have no CA emission label (missing label).

It is unrealistic the hold cars to an emission standard to which they were not built for. Probably illegal as well. I would expect them to hold you to the as built standard for the equipment to be intact. Testing to the emission standard as built or as in CA adjust it every few years. Not sure how they can do that but no one challenges CARB. Even the EPA avoids them.

My 84 still has the emission spec on the window from Ford.

[gr79]

Why would anyone worry like that when there are so few classics around?
If it were a frog, bald eagle, nature land, there are laws to preserve history or species.
Keep em stock or park em? Ban pre-emissions Model T's? What is the diff?

[NAVYCAT]

so what I did is since the capri is an 86 and the motor is out of a 94 GT all emission parts that came off the 94 MUST be on it. Other then replacing the 4 cats with new ones at $1400.00 the first smog test last year with the new cats blew just like a new car, pass the visual inspections. So now I installed the blower and as long as it has the E.O. numbers and that cross over whats in the system.... done thats it. and boy were they giving me the evel eye too and I just replaced the emission system sticker

[ZephyrEFI]

Why would anyone worry like that when there are so few classics around?
If it were a frog, bald eagle, nature land, there are laws to preserve history or species.
Keep em stock or park em? Ban pre-emissions Model T's? What is the diff?

Yeah, they just see old cars that belch bad stuff, and they want them off the roads.

so what I did is since the capri is an 86 and the motor is out of a 94 GT all emission parts that came off the 94 MUST be on it. Other then replacing the 4 cats with new ones at $1400.00 the first smog test last year with the new cats blew just like a new car, pass the visual inspections. So now I installed the blower and as long as it has the E.O. numbers and that cross over whats in the system.... done thats it. and boy were they giving me the evel eye too and I just replaced the emission system sticker

Wait, what? What is E. O. ? And you just tell them what year your engine swap is, and they just believe you and treat it as such? That doesn't sound like the same a-holes that want inspectors to scrutinize every millimeter of you engine bay and fail you at the first sign of trouble. And I don't understand how the supercharger slides by. Did '94 have Thermactor?

XC, most of that went over my head. Much like Donny, I have no frame of reference.



I think you're saying pretty much, I'd have to track down a whole damn Thermactor system, Yes? I do have a 1990 emissions label on my coil cover. I hate that crap. It takes up so damn much space. My P heads don't even have the port for it. Plus, my engine is a crate. Automatic fail, I guess. Probably just have to hope it doesn't come to this.

Most of the time, I'm in favor of pro-environment stuff, but some of them take it WAY beyond reason. I wish they would look at the real-world impact, rather than just outlawing all fun.

[TNT]

Wait, what? What is E. O. ? And you just tell them what year your engine swap is, and they just believe you and treat it as such? That doesn't sound like the same a-holes that want inspectors to scrutinize every millimeter of you engine bay and fail you at the first sign of trouble. And I don't understand how the supercharger slides by. Did '94 have Thermactor?

We have an agency called C.A.R.B. or California Air Resources Board.

What they do that applies here is test car parts for their emissions. Like heads, intakes, cold air intakes, headers, superchargers, turbos, h and x pipes, cats. Maybe a few parts I'm forgetting.
If their tests show that the part doesn't significantly add to the car's emissions or something along those lines, they issue the part what they call and Executive Order # or EO.


The EO on a part means it's legal to put on a car that has to smog test here and automatically passes the visual inspection. So then it becomes all about what comes out of the tailpipe.

Look at sites that sell parts like lmr and you'll see some parts with EO #s listed and some without. No EO # means it cannot legally be installed on any car made after 1975 registered in CA.

I'm pretty sure it applies to everything between the air filter and the cat back. I'm sure someone more technical than me can be more specific.

[Ray Dog]

Greenies think all piston engines are evil, and want us all on a train , buses or driving a Tesla.
Even heard a comment from Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, about East coasters lamenting about gas lines,
if you were driving an electric you would not have to worry.
My idea of being green is staying out of the secondaries. It goes over the heads of anyone under 30.

[KevinVarnes]

Greenies think all piston engines are evil, and want us all on a train , buses or driving a Tesla.
Even heard a comment from Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, about East coasters lamenting about gas lines,
if you were driving an electric you would not have to worry.
My idea of being green is staying out of the secondaries. It goes over the heads of anyone under 30.

It is disappointing to hear that she has any influence on anything that affects people. She was a waste of time and space as a governor. Does she still have that huge mole on her face? Apparently long lines at charging stations won't be a problem when they won't let us buy gas anymore and force us to all drive e-Mustangs.

[xctasy]

Rules to live buy: All the stock emission gear required for the OEM state on the Vehicles Emission Control Information diagram must be present.

Negotiable? What constitutes "stock".

Biggest issues are that no one makes Bowel Vent 1980-1988 spec carbs. Except Rochester Reproductions and OEM spec supplies of 4180/90/95C's and some Carter Thermoquads.

All SEMA stuff, including all Demon, Edelbrock carbs or Fast or Fitech Holley Sniper TBI units, are automatically off road and always totally illegal and an instant fail. Because they require Virginia to drop her panties, and shed the 85 to 103 items of emissions parts to establish 39 to 45 new EFI parts. The world biggest con-job and stitch up ever under the coming crisis.

The key thing is you can re-create and re-establish a stock carb OEM emissions system by using period 1966 to 1988 parts.

Look at keeping everything on the Vehicle Emission Control Information tag, and you will pass the visual inspection.

For the tune rules, base timing and setting info has to be shown to be in spec. That's easy to do and show.

For the IM Test, which for CA has ratcheting down H/C/N requirements from its stock year of birth Federal mandated window sticker, you just have to figure out how to address Hydrocarbon, Carbon compound and Nitrogen compound fails by showing you haven't done a lead plug removal or a non standard computer change. That is easy too.

The rules come from Hot Rod Magazine from 1988. Your Hot Rod Guy is your friend.

For pre EECIV engines, use all the stock OEM emissions crutches. You can on M codes, even add EFi while still keeping all the stock carb emissions gear. If they are missing, re-establish them piecemeal.

For Central or SEFi or Bank Fire EFi, your on easy Street because Ford mastered that in each year from 80-84 in 5.0 SO's Panthers and large long wheel base S-car Foxes, and from 84 to 86 and beyond in Panthers, F trucks, E-vans and Foxes and SUV's. For MAF equipped cars, like Mr NAVYCAT says...just use a pre OBD2, technically OBD1.5 1991-1994 engine tune transplant, and as long as you get the MAF transfer algorithm source right, you will meet emissions with ease.

There is no issue with VECi, presentation tune, or passing IM if you follow the rules. There is no burgeoning Smog Nasty Civil War unless we fail to undersrand the needs of the Visual, Presentation timing and IM test.

"The problem we have here is Failure to Communicate. I dont like it any more than you do. And what we get is what happened "last week". We'll, what he wants...he gets it..."

[KevinK]

So, am understanding it correctly, you found a blower set up which had an approved EO certification?
Used. A 94 GT as a base line and had the car recertified to 94.
Added a blower pa gage which was certified separately as a kit?

Good plan. Seems simple but there is probably a bit more to it to make it work.

[NAVYCAT]

Yep my blower has a E.O.# and yes it is a 94 motor......but I didnt tell the smog nazi's lol passed the eye test and the sniffer

[xctasy]

See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...placement-cats

And the 1988 articles on big inch engine swaps in Foxes. There is a Smog article which was especially helpful. Nothing has changed in CA regards BAR, CARB, EO numbers and Emission testing...the visual, the standards for each year, the need to assess that the car meets them on a road dyno.

It's very simple. And you can swap in a 351, 302 or non Windsor 351M heads if you keep the stock style of emissions parts.

The propane gas conversions or CNG option also works well. Impco from California has been working long term with the Italian firm BSC on both LP Gas and Natural gas conversions, so you can do a dual fuel conversion to allow a non compliant gasoline car to comply by adding an upstream mixer while the rest of your car is fuel injected. So many solutions, all done by Ak Miller in the 70's. Those guys saw where the emission thing was headed, and brain stormed it.


They were doing advanced systems in 1984 to gell with feedback cars





I've found that although modern EFi vehicles are easier to diagnose, they aren't easier to pass smog than older ones....if you know what your doing.

[ZephyrEFI]

Thanks for the replies so far, all. Very helpful.

Sorry, i do tend to jump to the worst conclusion way too easily.

[KevinK]

Adding to the CA issues, they recently made it illegal to ship non-carb approved parts to CA even for off road use. Its also pretty much your responsibility to provide the EO documents to prove you parts are ok. Often you can get it from the manufacturer website. Don't expect the smog tech to look it up.

[m81mclaren]

Oh don't get me started on this subject! The smog laws and tech ability to validate them are broken here in CA. Most smog shop techs I visited looked at my car and said NFW! I have a referee sticker (M81 Federal from 1981) but it's too old and not in their system anymore.They just said go see the referee even though I have all CA smog parts on here and functional. I even show them the VECI diagram to confirm and they find a reason to move on because they don't like doing EVAP and EGR tests because it takes too much time. Because of past under the table deals; they can lose their license and pay big fines if something passes but later is flagged. They prefer the late model cars for "testing" where they just plug in the OBD port and if the car says it's ready the test is done and no rolling tailpipe test. Easiest $50 they can make without getting dirty.

[KevinK]

Oh don't get me started on this subject! The smog laws and tech ability to validate them are broken here in CA. Most smog shop techs I visited looked at my car and said NFW! I have a referee sticker (M81 Federal from 1981) but it's too old and not in their system anymore.They just said go see the referee even though I have all CA smog parts on here and functional. I even show them the VECI diagram to confirm and they find a reason to move on because they don't like doing EVAP and EGR tests because it takes too much time. Because of past under the table deals; they can lose their license and pay big fines if something passes but later is flagged. They prefer the late model cars for "testing" where they just plug in the OBD port and if the car says it's ready the test is done and no rolling tailpipe test. Easiest $50 they can make without getting dirty.

Did you get your car smogged. I can ask my guy if he would do it.

[xctasy]

Oh don't get me started on this subject! The smog laws and tech ability to validate them are broken here in CA. Most smog shop techs I visited looked at my car and said NFW! I have a referee sticker (M81 Federal from 1981) but it's too old and not in their system anymore. They just said go see the referee even though I have all CA smog parts on here and functional. I even show them the VECI diagram to confirm and they find a reason to move on because they don't like doing EVAP and EGR tests because it takes too much time. Because of past under the table deals; they can lose their license and pay big fines if something passes but later is flagged. They prefer the late model cars for "testing" where they just plug in the OBD port and if the car says it's ready the test is done and no rolling tailpipe test. Easiest $50 they can make without getting dirty.

Hey man,

From the most humble 3.3 liter 87 hp X code to the best CFi HO 5.0

As long as the stuff is on,














Read again Page 34 from HR 1988 August




1. Pre OBD2 (Pre 1996 ) cars don't have a sage log of Emissions equipment checks that prove function of
2. the Cat, (via comparison between upstream before cat, down stream after cat)
3. AIR,
4. EGR,
5. EVAP,
6. unleaded only fuel filler flap hasn't been changed to allow leaded AVGAS,
7. Computer function (often not equipped) ,
8. O2 sensor function (often not equipped) ,
9. The 25 and 50 thou statutory bleed cyclic tune function tests (if equipped) ,
10. All of which resolve a 1000 item P series fault code, with histogram via Executive Command Access code.

Pre OBD 1.5's (1990 CA-1994 CA) They have some of that activated PIDs stuff.
Pre OBD 1.5's, none of it at all, even GM's ALDL Check Engine light systems from 1979 to 1990.

Fords non feedback 1983-1985 M code 4bbl 5.0 makes better power and economy than the 1986 and 1987 feedback SEFI HO 5.0, and 1984.5-1985 Central Fuel Injection HO. The early 1986-1992 SEFI HO and 1984.5-1985 M code CFi don't have a log of PID's, and Ford was very, very smart on the whole V8 truck, Police Cruiser and Fox HO program engine options from the 1982 2-bbl 5.0 Fox, 1980 Panther, 1983 F-truck and E-van variants, and especially, the 138 hp non HO H code 351M's.

Engine swaps from same year or newer engines that have Car Vin equivalents, read up about them.







Ford was smarter than GM and AMC, but not Mopar, who used the ELB system with the Feedback Rochester carb right up to 1988 in 4bbl 318 Dodges.

The whole thing got reigned in by SAE engineers and the automotive computer industry in the OBD development;

Any 1978 to 1992 non feedback or Feedback 5.0 or 5.8 is Public Enemy No 1, because its got no functional checks except by technicians who know the eventual 103 VECI components by name and function.

OBD2 fixed all that stuff, and makes Vehicle Emissions Component Instructions so lovely and easy. The 1320 feet of wire replaced 1320 feet of vacuum hosing, and decimated the total number or required emission devices, Thermactor AIR was gone on the later 5.0 SEFI's for instance, but also a huge hunk of other emissions doo dads that now can be controlled by Pulse Width Modulation from simple wires.

To avoid being victimized by CARB, BAR and I/M tests, you just have to remain wise over what is included in the VECI, and for G''ds sake, don't tell the ignorant dumb asses at the emissions testing place what they should already know. The only reason for Pre OB2 hate and lack of decision making is because of pure ignorance and the inability of people to understand that emissions devices are just diodes and throttles and a means to an end.

If the engines devices are functioning, and things like coils and distributor caps and Vacuum Operated modulators are working and not rusted out, and the engine is clean inside and got good leak-down percentages and the cold cranking compression isn't to high and the catalysts are still bricked inside and still operative, remain firm over the responsibility of the emissions guy to pass your car. EGR function is important, and plenty of cars pass without the cats working. If you are able to have approved updated cats fitted, be very careful to keep the original, even if its damaged.



I'm a lab technician, I've dealt with these Smoke and mirror's issues from international agencies which are frequently being controlled by non USA societies. Just talk to SEMA and decide if you want to sign the RPM Act, or if you trust diplomacy instead.

I'm in both camps. Love me Carburetors, can cope with the simplicity of OBD1.5 and above injection. Don't be scared of either of this stuff. Its ultimately very easy. The real evil, is someone trying to con you with alternatives that aren't legal. Don't be easily conned.

[xctasy]

see below


I'm a Civil Engineering Technician, so I do the complicated stuff, as well as the Nuts and Bolts...




but plenty of non CE types have explained this better

[xctasy]

Hot Rod

August 1988


Everyone should read and understand the basics.
































IM Test sheet example

[ZephyrEFI]

No, but they did announce they are starting California emissions for new cars. We did have testing here once, but it didn't last long. I'm just thinking they might do some sort of enforcement at some point. Especially if the RPM act doesn't pass.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[OX1]

No, but they did announce they are starting California emissions for new cars. We did have testing here once, but it didn't last long. I'm just thinking they might do some sort of enforcement at some point. Especially if the RPM act doesn't pass.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

But will they waste their time having to actually buy setups that check actual emissions.
Even Jersey figured out that's a lot of money for less and less non OBDII cars on the road, especially
ancient fox bodies.

Even if I didn't already have antique plates, there are no emission tests on anything OBD I. Too many different
protocols to tap into the different manufacturer's ECM's themselves. And it's not going to change actual overall state
emissions in any way, testing every pre OBDII car.

You can check into it just in case, but I wouldn't worry about it all that much right now.