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  1. #1

    Default 4180 rebuild questions....

    I started digging into this carburetor and have some questions (First Time Rebuilding one):


    Do you guys soak everything in the cleaner, including plastic and rubber pieces, floats, etc?


    What about the filter element? How do you clean it?


    Do I need to remove the blades, and throttle shaft? If so where can I get replacement screws?


    What type of screwdriver is needed to remove the butterfly shaped screws on the metering block?


    1. This currently has an inline glass filter, is there something better I should be using?



    2. I need a fast idle screw and spring, anyone know where to find one (specifically the spring)?


    3. The metering block was REALLY stuck, I ended up using a paint scraper to pry it off. In the process I knocked the tip off of the tab. It looks like a locating boss. Is this an issue?



    4. This piece fell off as I was taking something else apart, no clue where it goes, it appears to be #75 in the diagram:


    5. Someone has been here before, on of the mixture screws was missing a spring. Any idea where to get one?


    6. Should this ball be removed, if so how?



    7. Should this ball be removed, if so how?



    8. Per the diagram this should have a needle and not a ball, is this correct?



    9. I ordered a power valve Holley said would work (10.5), it is completely different, the one in the rebuild kit is similar, but different...will it work. Does anyone know where to get an exact match?



    10. The Float needles are different, will they work?



    11. Do I pull these plugs on the metering block?

  2. #2

    Default

    What cleaner? Harsh actual "carburetor cleaner", no to plastic/rubber/etc... It's the castings and the hard parts that need cleaned up, gaskets removed, etc., and most especially the 4180 front metering block, and the main body's primary idle air bleeds and passages (front, outer bleeds, inside and outside front of choke shroud), need to be cleaned or cleaner sent thru, blown out, cleaned again, blown out, and cleaned again and blown out... lots of convoluted passages, that unless you really physically open everything up, are impossible to visually confirm clean and clear... so air pressure and a discerning finger to feel air coming clear out of the other ends of the passages, is your friend.

    Blades and shafts removal... not unless there are missing or broken items...

    Clutch head (butterfly) screws, without a clutch head screwdriver, can be removed with a phillips or robertson screwdriver.

    1. That filter, as well as the ability to view into for debris, is meant to be taken apart (the ends unscrew) and clean-able.

    2. AllState Carburetor.

    3. They are gasket-locating (as well as metering block-to-body) pins... and it looks like there's enough left there to still locate the new gasket... if not, taking care that the block goes on straight and the gasket where it should be when reassembling is fine.

    4. You'll see there's a shelf of sorts when looking beneath where the choke rod goes down through... that plastic piece is an air seal.

    5. Those tiny springs is a tough one. Check with AllState or improvise with some other similar small spring that'll fit...

    6. No, just get it all clean and verify there's slight ball movement (ball to strap clearance is to be about 0.010"), and blow air good around and through the area.

    7. Yes. Can try air pressure into it's connected 90-degree passage where the cork/rubber gasket to the main body was/is... get ready to catch it, or she'll be launched to space. If more stuck in there, some grease packed into previous said passage and a tight fitting drill bit pushed in will usually hydraulically pop the ball bearing out.

    8. Ball is possibly original... the screw looks unfamiliar and longer than usual... I'd put the ball back in after...

    9. Stock engine? The 10.5"Hg will be fine.

    10. The new needle and seats are not the same, and will require regular Holley adjusting nuts and lock screws, with the necessary washer gaskets.

    11. Not unless you have access to 5/16" diameter replacement cup plugs. To clean the troublesome block out, it is better though...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 04-17-2021 at 11:28 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  3. #3

    Default

    Thank you!

    A couple more questions...the brass looking filter that is in the bowl, can it be cleaned? Soaked? Or do I need to find a new one?

    In regards to the power valve...you said the 10.5 will work. Would the dual stage 8 work better? Engine is stock.

    I posted another thread about the EGR delete. It is not hooked up or functional. So I'd like to remove that to clean up the engine, I will have to install a block off plate. Do I stiller use the thick plastic gasket that came with the rebuild kit?

  4. #4

    Default

    You've got an inline fuel filter... ditch the factory one in the float bowl.

    Better? No.

    The thick plastic gasket helps against the garbage ethanol fuel's tendency for percolation, because it makes fuel have a retarded lower boiling point... so yes, whatever phenolic is below the carburetor is a good thing.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  5. #5

    Default

    So do I need any other gaskets when using this?

    Or can I go straight from the intake, to phenolic spacer, to carb?



    Assuming I block off the EGR port at the intake/head gaskets...

    Also what sensor is this?


  6. #6

    Default

    That side EGR port needs to be blocked off. Clean it all up real good and fill it full of JB Weld, or a spacer needs to be fabricated that will block it off. The gaskets or the spacer won't do it.

    What sensor is it? I don't know... besides that it needs to be ignored or removed and blocked off with a plug.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
    So do I need any other gaskets when using this?

    Or can I go straight from the intake, to phenolic spacer, to carb?



    Assuming I block off the EGR port at the intake/head gaskets...

    Also what sensor is this?


    See this. The Original Poster photos have Gone Burger,
    but the explanations are here:-


    Quote Originally Posted by mudgepondexpress View Post
    Actually, you have no ports for those vacuum Tee's (red/green). What you have there is a port for a vacuum tree, or a port for vacuum (brakes / ac / heater/ etc). The red / green tee's are in a water port so they move vacuum from 1 port to another when the coolant heats up.

    Your stock intake has a water crossover in the back. Not many aftermarket intakes have that crossover. The old Weiand 8011 did, not sure many others did.

    Kenny

  8. #8

    Default

    Any chance you guys have recorded the needle screw turns on one of these? OR know what the factory base turns were?

    The one that was missing the spring was around 1.5 turns but I am kind of iffy on that since it was so loose...and getting a hex head in it may have turned it some before I started counting....

  9. #9

    Default

    Get a set of ball end hex wrenches, you can adjust the needle valves on the manifold with them. My needles ended up at 2 1/2 turns out when I was done, 21 1/2 inches Hg at the. Intake manifold. Adjust the valves for maximum vacuum at 800 rpm. And I’m at about 1100 ft elevation. You’ll need a vacuum gage as well, of course. JA Cook has a more precise method that uses propane enrichment if you want to look for it. You could set yours to 1 3/4 turns or so for a safe place to start and get it warmed up.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamCapri View Post
    Get a set of ball end hex wrenches, you can adjust the needle valves on the manifold with them. My needles ended up at 2 1/2 turns out when I was done, 21 1/2 inches Hg at the. Intake manifold. Adjust the valves for maximum vacuum at 800 rpm. And I’m at about 1100 ft elevation. You’ll need a vacuum gage as well, of course. JA Cook has a more precise method that uses propane enrichment if you want to look for it. You could set yours to 1 3/4 turns or so for a safe place to start and get it warmed up.
    I'm around 2000 feet...and your turns are close to mine....

    What size power valve did you run? Single or dual stage?

  11. #11

    Default

    Power valve is single stage, 10.5, I think. But I have a flat spot when the rpm gets over 3500 or so. Not sure if it’s power valve or secondaries not keeping up. I installed the quick change spring kit. Just haven’t tried playing with springs yet.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamCapri View Post
    Power valve is single stage, 10.5, I think. But I have a flat spot when the rpm gets over 3500 or so. Not sure if it’s power valve or secondaries not keeping up. I installed the quick change spring kit. Just haven’t tried playing with springs yet.

    Quick Spring Kit? What are you referring to?

    This is my first carb rebuild outside of a mower or motorcycle...

  13. #13

    Default

    Go to Holley.com and look for part number 20-59 and 20–13. Summit, CJ Pony parts and others carry them too. 20-59 replaces the cap on the secondary vacuum housing. See your #7 above. 20-13 is a set of springs that allow the secondary throttle to open at faster rates. They are color coded. From everything I’ve read, everyone ends up with the yellow (fastest) spring. As for the ball in the housing, it is there to meter the opening rate as well. You’ll have to see if you prefer with or without. These carbs don’t have secondary accel pumps so too fast an opening can lead to a lean condition and detonation.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default

    Have a manual choke on mine.
    If i leave it closed too much once warmed up engine will go flat trying to make any power.
    Even part throttle is not as 'sharp' if too rich. Too lean sort of causes bucking.
    And a 10.5 pv should give lousy fuel econ. So will the wrong jetting or tuning.
    A vac gauge is a must when tuning for best performance. A way to see whats going on overall.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamCapri View Post
    Power valve is single stage, 10.5, I think. But I have a flat spot when the rpm gets over 3500 or so. Not sure if it’s power valve or secondaries not keeping up. I installed the quick change spring kit. Just haven’t tried playing with springs yet.
    Any chance that stumble has anything to do with not using the 2 stage power valve?

    I have an 8 dual stage that came with the kit and a 10.5 single stage and I am debating on which to install.

    Thanks for the info on the spring, I watched the video at Holley...really good information. This thing ran REALLY good, but was filthy, I really wonder if I shouldn't just put the original power valve back in it.

    I will be getting a vac guage as well as a standalone wideband O2.

    Any other pointers while I am assembling this thing?????

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default got mine tuned real close to perfect

    Have a 2.3T, daily driver. 4 cyl carb tuning is pretty much the same as a V8 carb, 2v or 4v.
    After timing, vac lines, etc were sorted out, carb was last. First the inside, then external adjustments.
    Am not afraid to experiment a bit. As long as any changes are reversible, done one at a time, and keep notes.
    Found fuel mix needle adjustment varies 1.25 to 2 turns out. After few 1000 miles have not touched them.
    Turning either in too much causes the engine to idle rough or even stall.
    If not right, will pull over and adjust as needed. Driving is best final test.
    Idle rpm and vac reading are rock steady after warm up. Depending on weather, 18 to 20" idle vac.
    Have used a handheld vac gauge since the 60's to tune. Have owned V8's and 4's no 6's.
    Found vac readings so useful to me when driving, added in car gauges to car and truck.
    Stock 2v carb had a 8.5 pv, so changed to same on the new 2v carb, which had a 6.5.
    6.5 ok, but factory did 8.5 prob to make sure of more fuel when boost starts.
    Every PV here has had standard windows, no dual stage or multi-window.
    Figured 6.5 was too close to ensure enough fuel when turbo starts to spool up.
    Wanted and get vg fuel econ normal driving and power is there when needed.
    Is a bit larger carb, gives engine more power and better fuel econ to boot.
    Primary is rejetted to match the old carb, secondary is one size up.
    Did play with the secondary plate stop adjustment a tiny bit to smooth out driveability.
    Each engine is different. Sometimes takes months or years of experimenting to get tuning right.
    Carb came with blue reusable block gaskets.

    The in car vac/boost gauges in both carb and FI vehicles read 10"+ steady driving flat freeway or street.
    Does not take much pedal to dip into the carb power valve range and then boost.
    Also looking at a wide band to get another state of tune perspective.

    Using a quality round white paper air filter. Yellow media is ok. Motorcraft, Wix. Fram last choice. Not enough pleats.
    Inexpensive, no oiling hassle or guessing when to. Black like KN is not a color that reveals dirt.
    Check filter condition by holding up to bright light like a Geordi La Forge visor.

    Surely the manifold flange will get cleaned up. Vac out any debris.
    Stuff or cover holes with tape or shop rag when carb is off.
    Spray all carb passages under a rag with cleaner forward and reverse. Blow dry with air if available.
    A tiny dab of lube on the throttle ball before snapping it onto carb won't hurt.
    For sure enjoy the experience. Carbs are cool.
    Last edited by gr79; 04-22-2021 at 02:08 PM.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
    Any chance that stumble has anything to do with not using the 2 stage power valve?

    I have an 8 dual stage that came with the kit and a 10.5 single stage and I am debating on which to install.

    Thanks for the info on the spring, I watched the video at Holley...really good information. This thing ran REALLY good, but was filthy, I really wonder if I shouldn't just put the original power valve back in it.


    I will be getting a vac guage as well as a standalone wideband O2.

    Any other pointers while I am assembling this thing?????
    Mine always had an off idle stumble, then as years went by, it developed a hesitation. I figure the stumble was from lean tuning by Holley & Ford to try to meet CAFE rules. The hesitation I blame on lousy gas that we have to buy now. The stumble was solved by changing the jets to #63’s from the original #61’s. The hesitation was solved by changing the squirter to a #31 from a #28. Had to do some grinding to make it fit though. Did not have to change the accel pump cam.

    Some things to watch for when you re-assemble: The accel shot goes from the pump through the first gasket into the front metering block. Through the metering block into the transfer tube then into the body then up into the squirter. The front gasket looks symmetrical until you see the teeny hole for the accel shot, so make sure it’s oriented properly. The transfer tube is held with a couple of O-rings and can be tight. A spot of grease would help get it installed without tearing. I usually just get it started and let the screws set the stack of parts tight. Same for the front to back transfer tube.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  18. #18

    Default

    Almost have this thing assembled...waiting on a few parts that were delayed.


    Lastly I cannot find the correct needle valve springs anywhere. These screws are 6-32. The springs OD is .235" x .550"L. Anything thicker will not fit. I have ordered several from different suppliers and no dice. The closest was a spring I found in the hardware store, .250" I believe, but it had too many coils and would not allow the needle to thread all the way in.

    Any chance anyone has an old base with some spare springs?
    Last edited by tlmartin84; 04-23-2021 at 07:34 PM.

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member
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    Default

    You will need a spacer under the carb. Without one the throttle linkage will hit the intake and not open all the way,

  20. #20

    Default

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ighlight=4180c


    Here is a link to the almost proper stack that goes under the carb. Gasket on manifold, EGR spacer, Gasket, should be phenolic gasket, heat shield, gasket, carb to top it off. The intake manifold is an Edelbrock Performer RPM with smog options so it needs the cad plate adapter. Like Dynodon says, you’ll need a spacer in the stack.

    The EGR spacer includes ports for the PCV line and, I think, the CARB leaning circuit.
    Last edited by WilliamCapri; 04-23-2021 at 09:37 PM.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  21. #21
    FEP Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmartin84 View Post
    Almost have this thing assembled...waiting on a few parts that were delayed.


    Lastly I cannot find the correct needle valve springs anywhere. These screws are 6-32. The springs OD is .235" x .550"L. Anything thicker will not fit. I have ordered several from different suppliers and no dice. The closest was a spring I found in the hardware store, .250" I believe, but it had too many coils and would not allow the needle to thread all the way in.

    Any chance anyone has an old base with some spare springs?
    You might be able to find something pretty close or maybe even exact at Lee Spring or Century Spring. They both have a ton of off the shelf springs.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
    '91 Crown Vic P72 351W
    '97 Thunderbird
    '85 Ford LTD Squire

  22. #22
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default compression spring

    Dunno if cutting down with dremel and stretching with needle nose pliers would work.

    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...parts/38-10QFT

    https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Idl...83_p_2401.html
    Menards:
    https://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...161675&ipos=13
    https://www.primeline.net/sp-9700-co...5-spring-steel

    https://www.google.com/search?q=carb...h=741&biw=1152

    Possible a small engine repair, motorsport, or motorcycle shop may have something.
    Did Ford have the metering blocks changed because somebody almost or was having a tamper tantrum?

  23. #23

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    Thanks for help! I couldn't have done it without it!

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  24. #24

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    Looks great!

    First thing you will need to do, once it’s on the car, is set the float levels. This is done by removing the brass screw on the side of the float bowls. The idea is to have the fuel just below or at or just above the bottom of the hole. Mine is just above. You’ll need a well charged battery to crank the engine enough to prime the fuel pump and get the bowl filled. Have a rag under the bowl to soak up leakage. Wide blade screwdriver and 5/8*inch hex wrench. Loosen the screw because it is the lock, then turn the hex to raise or lower the fuel level. Same for the rear. Symptoms of poor adjustment: Too high - fuel will pour out of the venturies. Too low and when you hit the brakes hard, the fuel sloshes away from the jets and the engine stalls. Just take the screwdriver and wrench when you make your first couple of test drives. The ports on top of the bowls are meant to be plumbed to the charcoal canisters for vapor recovery. You will need to do something with them as they provide a pressure reference to atmosphere. If plugged the fuel pump will just blow fuel through the carb when the float opens. And you don’t want all your effort to go up in flames from raw gas running out from spirited driving if you leave them open!
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  25. #25

    Default

    I'm a bit confused about the canister comments, in relation to atmosphere reference.

    I have had several people tell me specifically to plug them. (The hoses were chopped off with plugs in them when I got it). I threaded them and installed plugs.

    What else can be done, or needs to be done?

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