Close



Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    319

    Default What if turning crank doesn't help to engage dizzy on pump shaft?

    Hi, trying to reinstall distributor.
    Turned pump schaft in small steps for couple of hours. It remains centered most of the times. Sometimes it sticks to the dizzy and have to straighten it out again.
    Have turned the crank from the balancer bolt a couple of times around.
    Have turned the engine with the starter about ten full turns. With and without pressing on the dizzy.
    Still the pump shaft doesn't align with the dizzy shaft hexagon it seems. Remains approx. half an inch lifted.
    Q: Don 't feel any turning resistance on the pump shaft. Is this normal?
    Any tips?
    I've done this 2 times before. One time took long but I didn't turn the crank. Next dropped straight in.
    This time is puzzling me.
    As always thanks for the help.
    Regards, Hans.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ALE-L21 met Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO/RR TX
    Posts
    14,206

    Default

    Is the distributor shaft OEM or aftermarket high performance? Normally the OEM shaft is installed with the oil pump and has a push nut on the shaft to prevent it from coming out of the block with the distributor when removed. Is that still the case?

    Is the distributor a new replacement? Have you verified there aren't any burrs or nicks on the end of the distributor shaft that are hanging up and preventing proper engagement.

    If the shaft is engaged in the oil pump you should feel some resistance to turning. Do you have access to an oil pump drive that you put in a drill and pre prime the oil before engine start? If you do that would guarantee that the shaft is engaged in the oil pump and working properly before moving forward.

    When you say it sticks to the dizzy and you have to straighten it out again, what does that actually mean?
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  3. #3
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Hi, It's a OEM dizzy, the one I drove with for a year. I took it out to Recurve.
    The pump shaft can move up that much that it is not straight up anymore. Not sure it can be taken out entirely or It's blocked by the nut you describe. When straightening it falls back deeper, where it was before. I assume it engages the pump drive then.
    I found burrs in the dizzy hexagon, that I just now removed with a small file. That should help.
    On your last question:
    When lifting out the dizzy the pump shaft half the time comes out the hole a bit. Then falls to the side and needs to be put down in again before the next attempt to mount the distributor.
    I did have a pump drive tool. But cannot find it..
    When I put a screwdriver with 1/4" hexagon on the pump shaft and rotate, there is no resistance.
    Thanks.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ALE-L21 met Tapatalk

  4. #4

    Default

    With all the turning of the crankshaft while the distributor has been out, you are going to have to rotate the crank to get it back to compression stroke on number one cylinder before installing the distributor. Some people to jog the engine to get distributor to drop all the way in, but that is only after getting it started engaging with the oil pump drive shaft and if it won't drop the rest of the way in.

  5. #5
    FEP Power Member richpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lowell, Oregon
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    It sounds like the oil pump shaft is not in the oil pump. Guessing it lifted just enough to come out of the hole. I used a magnet and a set of needle nose pliers to get one back in on a previous motor I built.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!

    Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?

    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chicago, south subs
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    turning the crankshaft without the distributor in the block won't turn the oil pump. Am I misunderstanding?

  7. #7
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    319

    Default

    It's in!
    I tried realining until the shaft turned with some resistance. Like walking through deep mud. It was al the time not in the pump at all.
    Now getting it set correctly. It gives loud bangs in the exhaust, but doesnt run.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ALE-L21 met Tapatalk

  8. #8
    FEP Member Hans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    319

    Default

    The 1/4" tools I have didn't fit the hole. So I used tools to hold bits. But those contain magnets. Often pulling the shaft out when removing the tool.


    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ALE-L21 met Tapatalk

  9. #9
    FEP Power Member richpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lowell, Oregon
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    Glad you got it in!

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!

    Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?

    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans View Post
    It's in!
    I tried realining until the shaft turned with some resistance. Like walking through deep mud. It was al the time not in the pump at all.
    Now getting it set correctly. It gives loud bangs in the exhaust, but doesnt run.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ALE-L21 met Tapatalk
    You have to have the engine set where the number one piston is on the compression stroke and install the distributor with the rotor pointing toward the number one spark plug wire post. You can't just randomly drop the distributor in and expect it to run correctly.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webstang View Post
    You have to have the engine set where the number one piston is on the compression stroke and install the distributor with the rotor pointing toward the number one spark plug wire post. You can't just randomly drop the distributor in and expect it to run correctly.
    I always have to fight with mine to get it back in. The shaft likes to stiick to the dizzy housing keeping the shaft from aligning with the socket. I put a bit of grease between the shaft and the dizzy housing to keep it centered. Ditto what Webstang says. The spark is arriving when the exhaust valve is open.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  12. #12
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO/RR TX
    Posts
    14,206

    Default

    As mentioned your timing is off now. I would recommend removing the #1 spark plug and the coil wire (or coil connector) and have someone bump over the engine until you feel compression coming out of the #1 plug hole. You can also do it by hand, although it can be more tedious and hard to make sure you are at TDC on #1 if the engine is worn down. Once you feel compression on #1 check your timing marks. You want the engine siting @ 10 Degrees before TDC. Adjust the engine by hand if needed to get the timing marks at that spot. Now pop the cap off and see where the rotor is pointing. Determine the #1 spark plug terminal and how the distributor needs to sit on the engine to allow you to adjust the timing both directions without the vacuum advance hitting anything. Now remove the hold bolt and clamp. Lift the distributor up just enough that the gear clears the camshaft and rotate the rotor/housing as needed to align with the #1 terminal. Remember that the rotor with rotate slightly as it engages the gear so you have to be offset slightly from your mark for it to seat on your mark. Hopefully the oil pump driveshaft and distributor will allow you to do it this way. If it will not seat properly you will have to pull the distributor out, seat the driveshaft and adjust it to align with the distributor correctly and re-stab the distributor. Once you get that done. Install the clamp and tighten down enough so the distributor will not move easily, but you can adjust it slightly. Fire it up and adjust the timing with a timing light to the correct timing and you should be good to go. Good luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  13. #13

    Default

    Just be careful, if that shaft falls down into the pan... At this point I would almost be tempted to just move the plug wires rather than reposition the distributor.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  14. #14
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO/RR TX
    Posts
    14,206

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emerygt350 View Post
    Just be careful, if that shaft falls down into the pan... At this point I would almost be tempted to just move the plug wires rather than reposition the distributor.
    Would make actually checking the timing much more difficult.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member richpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lowell, Oregon
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    Because you'd have to know which cylinder you're using to time the motor. Possible though if you pop the dizzy and see which cylinder's tdc you're set up on. Seems much better to get it correct though.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!

    Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?

    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  16. #16

    Default

    If I kept dropping the oil pump rod I think I would just leave it alone and do it 'the hard way'.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •