85gt and Holley Sniper EFI retrofit

[joelliott]

I’m really considering installing a Holley Sniper EFI Master kit on my 85gt.

I need a new carb anyways for my AFR165 topped 302. Thought maybe just going with an EFI system and being done w the hassle of the 4 bbrl.

Anyone out there have experience with this on an 85 4bbrl car?
Thanks
Joelliott

[wraithracing]

I don't have any experience with your specific combination, but I will be doing a similiar conversion to my 5.0/5spd swapped 79PC later this summer once I get caught up. I will be installing a FiTech setup on the PC to get rid of the Edelbrock carb. Hoping to get better drive-ability and improved economy out of the FiTech setup. My combo is relatively stock 5.0 currently, although it might get something more in the future.

[Boomer85gt]

I've got a stock 85 GT and I'm on the fence about getting a new Edlebrock carb or doing what you're considering...

[joelliott]

I’m in the same situation. I need a new carb for my recently rebuilt 302 w AFR165s, AirGap, 1.72RR, full Bassani exhaust, etc etc. I can either spend the money on another carb or spend a bit more and gone a simpler form of Sniper EFI. I’m really leaning toward the EFI because reliability is tops for me. It’s gotta start every time with no muss or fuss.
Joe E.

[wraithracing]

I went with FiTech, but after doing more research, I might have considered the Holley Sniper. I got a heck of deal on FiTech and it should work just fine, just appears it might be more of a challenge to properly control the ignition timing with the FiTech compared to a Sniper setup. Should work with my current distributor since it is not Duraspark, but not 100% on that just yet.

The Edelbrock has been decent overall, but when looking at a new carb coming in at $350-$400 in most cases, the EFI is a little easier to stomach IMHO. Living in Colorado we have some decent altitude changes depending on where you want to go and if you like driving the mountains. I am hoping the EFI fuel and ignition tuning will improve the overall driveability of the vehicle and make it more fun to drive often.

[BMW Rider]

I have the MSD Atomic system on my 79 and chose it because of the ease of integrating the ignition and timing control. I looked at the Holley system, but it would only combine with a HEI ignition for full control of the timing curve. Now that Holley has taken over MSD, it looks like they have done some work to improve the features on the Sniper efi to be more versatile in ignition control options. If I were shopping today, the Holley looks like it would be a strong choice.

I am very happy with the efi, it did take a bit to get it all sorted and running well, but much less so than messing with a tuning and rejetting a carb. The efi also overcomes the effects of my aggressive cam profile, taming the idle quite nicely, something a carb just can't do.

[joelliott]

Thanks for the replies and info. I guess I’m alittle outside my zone here. But can someone explain why the timing curve is good to have adjustable? As I’m looking at this Sniper kit, I’m hoping it’s “self learning” like they claim and can figure out it’s own driving program itself. I’m pretty much done engine wise w performance mods so from here on out it’s pretty much just replacement of the usual suspects, brakes, starters, pumps etc. I won’t be swapping out heads or adding cams etc.

Can a system like the Sniper work with the standard ignition system etc? Or do you also need a whole MSD kitted out setup to make it function?

Thanks
Joe E.

[richpet]

You'd have to check. I have a Fitech on mine and it works great with the HEI dizzy. The instructions show how to wire it up with a box ignition, an HEI, etc. I have been told the Fitech does not do as well with a box. It's working great with my HEI.
But, not sure about the Holley. I let my finances help me decide as I got a good deal on it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[wraithracing]

Thanks for the replies and info. I guess I’m alittle outside my zone here. But can someone explain why the timing curve is good to have adjustable? As I’m looking at this Sniper kit, I’m hoping it’s “self learning” like they claim and can figure out it’s own driving program itself. I’m pretty much done engine wise w performance mods so from here on out it’s pretty much just replacement of the usual suspects, brakes, starters, pumps etc. I won’t be swapping out heads or adding cams etc.

Can a system like the Sniper work with the standard ignition system etc? Or do you also need a whole MSD kitted out setup to make it function?

Thanks
Joe E.

One theory is that if you don't control the ignition timing with the EFI, you essentially just have a really expensive electronic carburetor and don't gain most of the benefits of true EFI like OEM. Yes, both the Sniper and FiTech will run without controlling the timing and if you don't want/need it to you can save a little bit of $$. As BMW Rider mentioned above, Holley has integrated the Sniper's ignition timing well into their EFI offerings. Still requires the right distributor and/or ignition setup to be compatible. If you need a new distributor at the same time, Holley has several options that are plug and play. Something FiTech does not offer.

If you have ever checked the timing on a 5.0 Mustang with SEFI at idle with the spout in on the TFI, you will notice that the computer is constantly bumping the timing around slightly to smooth out the idle. Something that doesn't happen without Electronic tuning. That is just one advantage to ignition control, plus it can alter your actual advance curve as you drive as needed to improve overall driveability and power. The simple way to put it, is it will generally make the engine run much better in most day to day driving. That is why I went with the FiTech GO EFI 4 600HP setup rather than the GO Street EFI 400 HP setup. The GO EFI has timing control with the appropriate distributor/ignition and the GO Street does not. I don't currently need the 600 HP rating, but it will work with my setup and again gives me the spark control.

As mentioned, I might seriously consider the Sniper setup over the FiTech for another project as that one will need a new distributor too and with Holley it can be plug and play with no additional wiring or headaches. Hope that helps a bit. Good luck!

[795.0pacecar]

I have the holley sniper with a hyperspark distributor on my pacecar. The only hiccup I had is my ford racing plug wires caused RF interference with the sniper, which would cause the ecu to reboot, so I had to use some much higher quality msd plug wires which remedied the issue. When you let the sniper control timing, you have to build a timing curve manually using the tuning software, I found one on the sniper boards to copy. If you just set the timing on the little hand held screen, it will change the timing like a switch, it asks for idle, cruise and wot timing and at what rpms to switch to each, and it'll just go straight from like 15* to 34* at 2500 rpms if you set it up that way, so it's really important for driveability to build a real timing curve.

Tuning has been the easy part, it largely tunes itself with some tweaks here and there. On my car when tiping into the throttle quickly without shifting down, it would get a lean stumble, but the sniper has an enrichment setting that acts as a power valve, so all I had to do was add a little more fuel on tip in, and that issue has been fixed. The car starts every time and idles perfectly, I also have it controlling the electric fan.

[BMW Rider]

The advantage of being able to program and manage the timing curve is that it allows you to tune it for a modified engine. Stock ignition and curve will work fine if the engine is stock or very mildly modified. Of course just like messing with a carb, you can mess with distributors and timing too. Its just an analogue vs digital question.

The self learning is pretty good, but you do need to get the basics figured out ad set up first. I had some early issues and after some readjusting of basic manual settings and changes to the base programming, the system is working quite well under most conditions. Only time its a bit fussy is before its fully up to operating temp.

[joelliott]

Again thanks for al the info and experience around this EFI business. I contacted a shop that does custom EFI stuff for older cars. They get all the info from your ride, what you are looking for, and build a package that’s all inclusive based on those parameters. The reviews seem to be very positive especially in the technical help area. I’m seriously considering ordering from this place. Question is now how much of the extra toys do I need/ want? Do these numbers look reasonable to you guy?

Here the email....


Thanks so much for the opportunity to provide you with this recommendation. Based on the info you've provided I suggest the following:

Holley 550-510 Sniper EFI System Silver, $1019.95
(Available in Black or Gold for $1060.95)
Holley 12-345 OE-Style Fuel Tank Pump Module 84 Mustang, $224.95
ESP FOXMODINSTKIT Install Component Kit for OE Module, $211.39
Earl's 100187ERL 100 PSI Mechanical Fuel Pressure Gauge, $35.05
Earl's AT100199ERL -6 AN Male-To-Female Gauge Port Adapter, $16.03
ESP SNITEE EFI System Pro Sniper T-Shirt, $9.95 FREE W/PURCHASE
(Available in black or gray, Small through XXXL)

This will give you absolutely everything you need to be successful installing this EFI system on the 302 in your Mustang. If you'd like to add ignition timing control in the future then you'd want to consider adding these components:

Holley 565-301 HyperSpark Distributor Ford 302, $263.95
(Also available in Black, same price)
Holley 556-151 HyperSpark Ignition, $210.95
Holley 556-152 HyperSpark Coil, $39.87

Please let me know what questions you have! I've provided some links below if you'd like to learn more about the components above. It's not necessary for you to build a shopping cart to order this--I'm happy to take your order by phone. Or--even easier--simply reply to this email with confirmation of what you'd like to order, sending your billing address and phone number. I can then reply with a link to an invoice that you can review in detail and pay securely online at your convenience. As soon as you do that the team will get your EFI System on its way.

https://www.efisystempro.com/sniper-...50-510-511-516
https://www.efisystempro.com/holley-...mustang-12-345
https://www.efisystempro.com/earls-f...-psi-100187ERL
https://www.efisystempro.com/holley-...89-302-565-301

[richpet]

Looks nice! I bet that will be an awesome kit!
It does highlight one reason I went with Fitech though. All in I spent about $1200 on the fuel system (kit, carb'ed electric fuel pump, hose, etc). I had to buy a dizzy anyway.
I am willing to leave some power on the table, maybe (maybe not since it seems great) a little drivability, for ease and a fair cost reduction. More power would be nice, but for my cruising not needed. I also got the 600hp easy street which you can do timing stuff with, but my HEI doesn't work with that feature.
Be nice to see some pics of the Holley system when you have it installed! Have fun! So nice to hit 'start' regardless of the temp/weather and drive off.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[joelliott]

Well for me the entire project with this car is to get in, start her up, and go for a cruise w my son without any drama. No warm start issues. No gas smell in the cab. No crossing my fingers hoping it’ll make it out and back. That’s the hard part of older cars. It gets tedious with all the small irritants. So you end up taking the new ford on the trip instead of the 80s fox. Just because you know the new car will always fire off. I’m over that.

With the full exhaust with Cats, and a Sniper system including new dizzy etc, the car should be pretty full proof.

I think I’m gonna go with the extras too. Ignition coil, distributor, etc. I know it’s not necessary to have. But these other components on my car are from the early 90s. So updating those systems isn’t all that bad an idea for $2200. Now just to find a shop who will give me a quote.

Joe E

[emerygt350]

Ford made its own version 37 years ago called the CFI...

[emerygt350]

Not suggesting any sane person use it.

[OX1]

One thing I didn't know until just now. The super sniper 650 allows

"3 Programmable 0-5V Sensor Inputs for Oil/Fuel/Dome or Nitrous Pressure Sensors"

https://www.amazon.com/INDUCTION-INJ.../dp/B07XF6872J

The regular sniper already tells you voltage and engine coolant temp. Now you can add sensors for oil and fuel pressure.
So you will not need any additional guages taking up space all over the place.

[joelliott]

Yeah that’s cool! I’ll have to look into that.

I’m real close to ordering up this package. I’m going w Holleys distributor and ignition coil and all.
Joe E.

[joelliott]

Next question is can this EFI work w an AirGap intake? I sure hope so as it’s only got 3 miles on it... lol
Joe E.

[wraithracing]

Next question is can this EFI work w an AirGap intake? I sure hope so as it’s only got 3 miles on it... lol
Joe E.

I just the He** Hope So! I have the same combo for my Pace Car. If not we are both in trouble! Shouldn't be any different than a regular carburetor and hopefully might work a bit better. Good Luck!

[qtrracer]

Well for me the entire project with this car is to get in, start her up, and go for a cruise w my son without any drama. No warm start issues. No gas smell in the cab. No crossing my fingers hoping it’ll make it out and back. That’s the hard part of older cars. It gets tedious with all the small irritants. So you end up taking the new ford on the trip instead of the 80s fox. Just because you know the new car will always fire off. I’m over that.

With the full exhaust with Cats, and a Sniper system including new dizzy etc, the car should be pretty full proof.

That sounds great in theory. I have the Holley Terminator X on my '86. True, the TX is MPEFI but if the Sniper software and tune parameters are like the TX, it will be awhile before the quoted situation occurs. While the wiring and set-up is pretty simple (Holley has great instructions and on-line support), that self-tuning stuff at least with the TX, is not so much "self" tuning. Holley does provide sample tune parameters for NA, Nitrous and blown applications, but they are very general and meant to get the car running. And Holley assumes that the install is flawless and that there are no mechanical or other issues with the motor and the user selects the "nearest" tune to the actual car's parameters. If you mess something up on the install, or you have a vacuum leak or fuel pressure is wrong, or the wide band is in the wrong place or wrong angle, and so on, "self" tuning will tune with those issues and not correcting for them. Short story, it's not plug, play and drive. Getting it to idle at cold start and when letting off the throttle has been a challenge.

With that said, I do get glimpses of how it should work which is pretty impressive. So many things to add or tune for; very versatile. I'm still messing with mine. I just installed a Holley fuel pressure sensor and discovered that my fuel pressure has been too low for months. This despite putting a gauge on it. The Holley TX calls for 43# for fuel pressure and mine was at 33 all this time (since last summer). So now I have to correct that and run more tuning data logs.

Bottom line, don't expect new car performance, mileage and drivability right out of the box (assuming TX and Sniper are similar).

[BMW Rider]

Next question is can this EFI work w an AirGap intake? I sure hope so as it’s only got 3 miles on it... lol
Joe E.

I'm running mine on an Edelbrock RPM air gap manifold. The one thing I did find after a lot of reading is that these systems tend to work better on single plane manifolds than dual plane. The cheat that is commonly used to overcome that is to use an open spacer under the base of the throttle body unit. I was having stalling issues on decel with mine and doing this sorted that out.

[joelliott]

Yeah Ive seen that too. And that’s fine with me to run a spacer. Any idea how think it can be before there starts to be good clearance issues?

[joelliott]

So what your saying is I’m just as good getting a new carb and running it?

Will the EFI not alleviate the hard starts and gassy smell in the cab?

Joe E.

[BMW Rider]

I'd still do the EFI over a carb. I think the point being made is that the self tuning is not going to work well if the base setup is off. Just be sure to spend the time to get the base settings and adjustments right. That was another error I made, I assumed the throttle body idle stops were correct out of the box. They were not, and after going through the adjustment process things worked a lot better. My car fires right up cold or hot and cold idle is stable after just a few seconds running.

As for the gas smell, that will be gone for sure - assuming the rest of the fuel delivery system is tight that is.