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  1. #1

    Default Ignition cutting out. Code 14. Did all of the usual stuff

    Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (2.3L EFI) and have an ignition issue. I've searched this and other forums and did the usual stuff and nothing has worked. Here's my situation-

    The timing belt marks are aligned. Base timing is 12 BTC without the spout in. Car starts and idles smoothly without the spout. Insert spout and the ignition will randomly and briefly cut out at idle and when driving at normal cruising speed. It feels like the entire ignition is cutting out, not one cylinder. It happens when its cold and hot. I'm getting Code 14.

    I have new plugs, wires, distributor, TFI, cap and rotor (t
    his issue was present before I changed these parts). It's not the IAC (it's been cleaned and the problem exists when the IAC is unplugged; plus there is no IAC when cruising). Wires to the spout and distributor look very good and I cleaned the connectors. I've reconnected/cleaned all three ground wires going to the engine. I think I'm left with the EEC and the coil but don't want to start throwing parts at it. Other than that, I'm out of ideas. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I would recommend a new ignition switch on the column. Good chance it has split and you are getting a short there. Good luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
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  3. #3

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    Thanks Trey. Here's the schematic of the ignition. I'm not sure how a starter switch short would only effect the ignition when the spout is in. What gets shorted? Name:  TFI_ignition_system.gif
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  4. #4
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Maybe this will help you diagnose your current issue.

    https://www.therangerstation.com/tec...agnostic.shtml
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  5. #5
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    1,773

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    If the ecm is the culprit, it would most likely be leaking capacitors. Doesn't cost anything but time to pull it out and open it up for inspection. It should be pretty noticeable if that's the problem.
    79 Pace Car - 331, t5
    79 Pace Car- 302, 4 spd
    79 Cobra - working on 351w, t5
    82 Capri- working on 302, t5
    82gt - working on 408w, c4

  6. #6

    Default

    Tfi connection could do it too.
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in a stock dual snorkel, GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers, catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear, dura grip (both Yukon)
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    AOD rebuilt with a 6 clutch direct drum, Koline steels stacked with 8 clutches, Kevlar band, superior shift kit, new torque converter. --Everything else stock and fully functional.

  7. #7

    Default

    Closing this out. There were two issues.

    1) The car had an ignition stumble when I bought it and it had brand new 8mm wires.
    2) I upgraded the wires to 10mm and the problem got substantially worse.

    For problem 2, reinstalling the old wires brought it back to the original stumble. The upgraded wires were spraying EMI (but not the upgraded coil wire). I would have never suspected them as they are Scott Wires, 10mm, 30ohms/foot, and supposed to suppress EMI. Every time I added a new Scott wire, the problem got worse. https://sparkplugwires.com/spark-plug-wire-technology/

    For problem 1, one of the original plug wires had a boot that was almost 1/2 inch too long, causing the connector to not seat on the plug. I suspect it was arcing and causing EMI. I cut 1/2 inch off the boot and no more stumble.

    When diagnosing the problem, I put a two channel oscilloscope on the the SPOUT and PIP signals. The distributor puts out a clean PIP signal with no SPOUT and a noisy PIP with the SPOUT in. There must be a dedicated PIP circuit in the distributor that produces the signal when no SPOUT is present and then another circuit uses the hall effect to produce the PIP signal when the SPOUT is present. Only when this second circuit is used does the EMI impact the PIP signal. That's my theory. Regardless, it was not the ECU.
    Last edited by wraithracing; 03-29-2021 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Text Color

  8. #8

    Default

    With the SPOUT out the TFI fires the ignition at whatever your base timing is set at as a failsafe mode. When the SPOUT is connected the EEC tells the TFI when to fire the ignition.

    steve

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