Pics of a stock 1980 2.3 automatic carb set up

[haromaster87]

Hello everyone,

I recently acquired a 1980 2.3 4 cylinder car and the carb is missing a few parts, including the identifying carb tag. I know it's a Holley 5200 2bbl, but the choke mechanism is missing parts and the kickdown cable is just loose in the engine bay. I suspect I'm missing a bracket or something, but I'm really not familiar with what this carb set up even should look like.

Being a 4 cylinder carb car, it's tough to find good reference info/pics, or at least I don't know where to look at all. There's a cable in the interior that seems it would have gone to a manual choke, but all of the pics of carbs I find seem to have an electric choke connection or just a vacuum connection. Then I really can't find the first bit of info on the kickdown cable mounting. There's a rotating rod in the back that's actuated by the throttle, but I don't see anything around it to anchor/attach to.

So I'm hoping maybe someone might have a pic of an original auto trans carb set up on an early 2.3 car? I've tried digging up info on kickdown cables in the forum and didn't find much.

Thanks!

[xctasy]

True, no 1980 2.3 liter carb C3 downshift cable pictures exist, although I haven't searched everywhere.


Best I could do was a red ’82 Fairmont Futura 2.3 liter C3 column shift auto two-door at a Northern California yard in October 2014.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...wo-door-sedan/

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ID-numbers-etc







All C3 kickdowns are basically the same. What varies is the base throttle speed control, and there is a 5200 or 6200 carb.

You need to be sure your car is not a feedback carb MCU version form CA for 1980. The VECI label will tell you this...possibly.






By 1986, Ford went back to a 1-bbl carb with the same throttle linkage, but a cable kickdown like this C3 auto trans car





In 1974, most C4 Pinto 2.3 autos were rod operated for a time.


This is an aftermarket 2.0 with a C4 down shift rod.






As long as the carb hasn't been swapped out, the 7th cross check for "is it a 5200c or is it a Feeback 6500c?" is additionally based on the presence of the following 2300 Feedback parts:-

In full size, file 1. has all the MCU 78-82 ingredients visually



These five files best describe the issues Ford were dealing with from 1978 to 1982...things only got simpler with the EECIV.

The MCU and all pre EECIV systems were tainted with the same brush of confusion.

1. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...October_79.jpg
2. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...ic_process.jpg
3. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/..._1982APRIL.jpg
4. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/..._1982APRIL.jpg
5. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/..._1982APRIL.jpg



Turbo carbs for 1980 probably aren't much different to yours, with a yellow throttle dashpot to control fuel supply on over run. It has solenoid control via a vacuum line.

[xctasy]

There are some VECI diagrams on line if you need the vaccum lines sorted. The kickdown cable should be pretty simple.


Here is the turbo Vacuum and Emission Control Information for a problem with the throttle positioner solenoid.


Its a 4 speed 1980 2.3 liter Turbo without MCU. Every 2.3 has its own VECI. Lots of difference's depending on
trans,
Air con,
power steering,
or turbo / or naturally aspirated
or destination state.


Ford were forced to customize every application to meet emissions and economy regulations

Found two loose vacuum connections between the SOLV and the throttle solenoid positioner (VOTM!) and the SOLV and MAN PLNM and fixed those. I will replace those with the original style green and red plastic lines when I find them per Stormin Normin's post.

The LEFT SOLV upper pair go to the VOTM and the lower pair splits with one going to the A/CL CWW and the other to the MAN PLNM pair.



At that MAN PLNM pair the other one routes to/from a unit I need to identify next to the AIR BPV. If that's the TVS then the routing is incorrect. More studying to do here.


I also found the RT side SOLV (Air con related per GR) has no vacuum connected at all (appears to have a single port currently open to air). Looks like it is supposed to go to a split just before the TVS per the VECI diagram.


With the few fixes made so far to the spark retard routing and line fixes today I will run a new test tomorrow and see if any changes have occurred. Maybe my high warm idle will be fixed. I'm feeling more confident in tracing, testing, and adjusting (mixture, timing etc.) thanks to you all here sharing knowledge, my carb guy confirming a few things, and my just investing time with lots of reading and learning.
Happy Friday!

Ok so a few more hours in and we are 90% through the vacuum line tracing/fixing. I've added the two lines for the A/C side (right) SOLV and part of the anti-backfire device as well as completed the A/CL BI MET lines. She is idling and running very well and spools great except for now after the other vacuum fixes I have a concerning carb backfire/poof with a cloud of black smoke when on full throttle and I put the clutch in to shift gears (so much for adding in the anti-backfire device!). If I make very slow shifts it's no problem. This is no buenos and must be fixed so I won't do any further full pulls. I'm sourcing the missing A/CL TVS from National Parts Depot so I can fully connect the AIR BPV/ANTI BF system which I hope will solve this issue as I don't want to blow up the turbo carbon seal. I am doubtful but may play with the timing again in the meantime.

My AFR gauge still does not read at idle by wiring directly to battery so I think it needs to be replaced in order to trust the readings for fine tuning.

I do not see the FLTR that connects to the AIR BPV in my engine compartment as that upper port is closed. Does anyone know what it's function is and have a picture of said FLTR?

Finally this is the Vacuum Control Valve right?

This pic is my old setup with lower VCV port going to the IVV and the other to the air port next to the primary carb mixture screw. The IVV lines are now fixed per the VECI diagram (to small A/CL CWM port and to the formerly open EGR port) but the VCV lower port is now open which is supposed to go to the E port on the carb with a SA FV which I also don't have). It is supposed to go to a tee then to the VDV then to the purge canister center line which is also open at the moment. Looks like I need to source a VDV and SA-FV in order to finalize all of this.

Lastly I have a large vacuum line (turquoise stripe) running from the firewall RT corner area to the large A/CL CWM port but I can't ID this Line on the VECI. Anyone know what this does? Does the stripe designate something specific? At the split valve one goes in the firewall behind the glove box somewhere while the other one disappears behind the fender.


Here's my Purge CV with middle orange?/pink? (it splits into two lines not sure why as the VECI only shows as single line; same thing on the Left SOLV lines where both split into two then back to one...strange) that needs to route to VCV.
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[haromaster87]

Woah xctasy, you're the man, thanks a bunch! Will have to review all of that in detail after work, looks like plenty of info to figure out what I need.

[FB71]

I have a '79 Capri with 2.3 n/a and C3, box stock. Let me know if you need more pics.

[haromaster87]

I have a '79 Capri with 2.3 n/a and C3, box stock. Let me know if you need more pics.

Man, first year Capri, that must be awesome! And I would love to take you up on that offer. If you could get me any pics of the back/left side corner of the carb, like from behind the shock tower if that makes sense? Around where the throttle(and possibly the C3 KD cable) mount up. I know it's kind of a tight area to photograph, but anything is most appreciated!

[haromaster87]

I'm happy to say I don't believe I have a Feedback carb Cali setup. I do have a control box in the engine bay, but it appears smaller/simpler than the one in those photos and I don't have the other components mentioned. While I have this thread, I wonder if maybe someone can tell me what the other tube connection on the front of the 5200 carb is for?

There's the threaded main fuel inlet, then a smooth barb outlet type fitting. It originally connected to a rubber fuel type line that goes to an inline check valve, and then to a hard line that concludes in a decent size white box on the lower front passenger corner of the engine bay. The white box has a smaller black line that comes out of it and heads to the back of the car. I suspect this is for the EGR system?

The EGR valve by the carb was removed and crudely blocked off, but I'm going to try and get the EGR stuff back together if possible.

[FB71]

Man, first year Capri, that must be awesome! And I would love to take you up on that offer. If you could get me any pics of the back/left side corner of the carb, like from behind the shock tower if that makes sense? Around where the throttle(and possibly the C3 KD cable) mount up. I know it's kind of a tight area to photograph, but anything is most appreciated!

Will do! I'll grab some pics this weekend.

[gr79]

Did a FEP site search using keyword 5200
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/search.p...023&pp=&page=2
With 14 pages, likely to be pics, links info needed or close to it in that thread.
Other pics: https://www.google.com/search?q=holl..._AUoAnoECAcQBA

Ford shop manuals and others have detailed descriptions.
Have 79 Ford manual here. Assuming 80 is generally the same except for model year specific changes.
Am going from memory to summarize the carb part.

If a mysterious control cable with knob runs from carb choke area to inside car, assume manual choke convert attempt.
Traditional config to control any manual choke conversion on most any installed carb.
79 and later 2.3 5200 usually has electric style choke. Water cooled choke thermostat systems are mainly 70's era tech.

A carb tag would be mounted to one of the carb's fuel vapor solenoid to carb mounting screws.
A no tag carb may not be oe but a generic app or other replacement 5200 that generally fits multiple years.
Replacement carbs or unexplained 'just make it work' mods can result in incorrectly configured connections as suspected.

The large one barb fitting, front ps corner of a 5200 carb opposite the fuel inlet, is an emissions related part.
That barb fitting is a part of a three screw 12v carb solenoid assy that opens and closes to control fuel vapor at the carb when parked.
Solenoid closes fuel vapor vent line to canister when parked. Has a recessed male spade wire connection for power.
Single 12v wire feed, engine key on, opens solenoid allowing fuel vapor to flow between carb and evap can.

Factory connected large carb vac line to the evap can, which (2.3 5200, 79-80+ others) is located below the battery, hanging off the frame rail.
The plastic rectangular shaped evap charcoal canister can be white or black in color. Has multiple vac lines connected and is vented.
Can connects to the fuel tank, carb, and other areas, to help keep engine operating within fed emissions laws for its model year.
Purpose of the can is to buffer excess fuel vapor. Excess fuel vapor escaping into atmosphere is classified under fed emissions laws.

The can's smaller black line routes under car, back to the top of fuel tank, to a plastic barb fitting on the fuel tank.
Function is vent and collect fuel tank vapors from a parked car into charcoal media, later purged during engine operation.

When engine is started, the vapors are purged by engine vac sucking in the vapors and burning them.
The connection to and from the carb is a part of the system. Carb vent closes when engine is stopped.
Keywords white box, rubber line, check valve, hard line, rubber line to rear, all indicate these connections.

Having a manual trans, cannot go into too much detail on what automatics need to operate.
Looks like Ford still used rods for the carb linkage to trans connection. Cables came later?
Zoom-able pic of auto trans linkage connections (79). 80 likely similar:

[haromaster87]

Will do! I'll grab some pics this weekend.

Super much appreciated.

Did a FEP site search using keyword 5200
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/search.p...023&pp=&page=2
With 14 pages, likely to be pics, links info needed or close to it in that thread.
Other pics: https://www.google.com/search?q=holl..._AUoAnoECAcQBA

Ford shop manuals and others have detailed descriptions.
Have 79 Ford manual here. Assuming 80 is generally the same except for model year specific changes.
Am going from memory to summarize the carb part.

Wow thank you so so much for all this info! Of all the stuff I searched and googled, never searced 5200 on here Will be reviewing all I can find on there. I had googled 5200 to death but never quite found what I've found through here. I know it appears to have the original correct carb, but I had suspected someone tried to rig up a manual choke. Good to know the electric choke is correct.

And that confirms a lot of what I suspected about the evap can as well. Again, really appreciate the time taken to explain all of that. One of the reasons I was so stoked to get back into a 4-eye was coming back to this site.

[xctasy]

I'm happy to say I don't believe I have a Feedback carb Cali setup. I do have a control box in the engine bay, but it appears smaller/simpler than the one in those photos and I don't have the other components mentioned. While I have this thread, I wonder if maybe someone can tell me what the other tube connection on the front of the 5200 carb is for?

There's the threaded main fuel inlet, then a smooth barb outlet type fitting. It originally connected to a rubber fuel type line that goes to an inline check valve, and then to a hard line that concludes in a decent size white box on the lower front passenger corner of the engine bay. The white box has a smaller black line that comes out of it and heads to the back of the car. I suspect this is for the EGR system?

The EGR valve by the carb was removed and crudely blocked off, but I'm going to try and get the EGR stuff back together if possible.

Be very, very carefull.

The 1980 2.3's are a trap. The heads and primary barrel and the three tiers of Non A/C carb, A/C carb, and Non A/C carb Turbo, A/C carb Turbo mean you have about five times the info to sift through. The non turbo intake ports were downsized and the primary barrels too.

1980 was the year they gained 5 highway mpg on the 2.3 by adding a 5 speed option and knocking down the intake port runners on carb non turbos. The work

thanks for the feedback, will the stock drawthru jets get me where i want to be probably not but it might be close, i have also have heard that the holley vs weber jet size it kinda confusing.

can anyone else confirm that there are boost referenced ports on the stock drawthru 5200 carb?

You need to go back and read ALL the stubs of ALL the posts, or you will miss a trick

I can again recommend MRausch82

Ok, so my long search for an '80 specific carb seems to have finally come to an end. I have a few '79 carbs, and I have a few n/a carbs. As per gr79's notes and observations, I have found the '79 2.3T carburetors to have the same numbers as his findings:

'79 carb
D9ZE-ND tag.. 259 primary/283 secondary, main jets (a/c car)
D9ZE-MD tag.. 263/275 (non-a/c).
HS bleeds 185/195 prime/sec
R8943-2 body number, at least on one
Accel pump lever location on #3 bottom

'80 "factory replacement" new carburetor
BXE1ZE-ADA
Body number at base R9581
Main Jets: 259 primary/263 secondary (as installed in carburetor currently)
HS bleeds 1.95 primary/1.80 secondary
Accel pump lever location #3 bottom

1980 NA 2.3 (NON-turbo) carb
E0EE-GA
Main Jets: 179 primary/211 secondary (as installed in carburetor currently)
HS bleeds 1.85 primary/1.50 secondary

All other specs appear same on turbo and non turbo, both '79 and the '80 carburetors. I will try to update this thread as I come across more information. I'd still like to find an original '80 carburetor, tag E0ZE-AAA with a body number of R8957 and/or R8956, if for nothing else, reference purposes. I'll gladly buy one from anyone that has one they would like to sell. As for the factory replacement unit- it will be going on my fresh engine build in the next few months. I had to sacrifice a gasket when I opened it up, so I will need to order a kit for it.

I got the turbo back last Friday and put it in Saturday. Pulling and installing a turbo without removing the intake and/or head is not fun. Just had to plug away at it, and finally got it done on Monday. But I didn't get very far because one of the hoses from the charcoal canister was a little to close to the cam sprocket. Evidently the backplate to the cam sprocket pulled the rubber hose in between it and the valve cover and wrapped it around the cam three times. I was not happy need less to say that I had the hoses too close and not tied them up somehow in a safe place. I ended up pulling the valve cover to finally cut the hose free. Another day wasted without much progress, but it had to be done. I had put the timing cover in place and that was a bear to get off, especially that little bolt next to the thermostat attaching the upper timing cover to the head. But valve cover is off, hose is gone from around cam and ready to throw everything back together tomorrow. Lesson learned.... the hard way.

Read all these.

Good catch GR my carb guy said the same thing. That’s an old picture from when I took the carb in to be rebuilt. The spring is there now!


He was scratching his head on why my carb has no idle adjustment screw. I had over 20 pictures and in the end he thinks the throttle stop solenoid is where there is some adjustment but frankly I could not find any way to do so. He also suggested I leave the secondary vent (curved air vent on the passenger side of carb) capped for now and not to connect it to the distributor or manifold vacuum.

[xctasy]

The VECI diagram lists the lines to the carb.

Sharing info to help form pictures of the task at hand.
Getting (re)acquainted with the carb and refreshing some the past gained knowledge spread over the years.
A 5200 is a popular carb used in many different applications.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...2-3l-carb-help
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives...Carburetor.pdf
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ID-numbers-etc
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ft-5200-2bbl-s

See cleaning and inspection
https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Hol...al_ep_340.html

From 79 Ford Engine shop manual V2 section 29-02-120 procedure SSD-18 model 5200/6500 carbs
"This procedure is to be used if contamination must be removed from the carburetor.
Note where the parts came from".

1- remove carb
2- remove: air horn, hs bleeds, well tubes, main metering jets, idle jet(s), idle mix adj screw, accel pump (cover, diaphragm, spring), power valve, needle and seat, accel pump shooter.

3- Clean bowl and all items removed.

4- Using compressed air, blow out the following main body channels in listed order:

a- primary idle channel from the adj screw opening
b- primary and secondary idle channels from idle jet opening
c- fuel bowl, primary, secondary main metering jet channels\
d- primary and secondary main well channels
e- accel pump channel

[xctasy]

Again, you've most likely missed the info given.

Now that I uploaded the picture above with the return spring, it does appear that the "Throttle Solenoid Positioner" vacuum kicker (not stop solenoid?) has a threaded shaft which I may check and adjust later after addressing the main vacuum lines and other tuning adjustments.

He gave me this old Mitchell book to take home and study... a couple to start with

[xctasy]

For the VECI, look here


http://myzephyrs.com/VAC_2.3/index.html

[xctasy]

Turbo VECI's are very different.

Great job to have documented the lines. Mines are still original. I do understand the original owner didn´t change anything. I also taped the lines and made some ilustrations. Attached images if can help anyone else. I have plenty of them more if someone needs.

[FB71]

pics of a '79 Capri, built May '79, 2.3 n/a auto A/C.

[FB71]

[xctasy]

Rod operated kick down C3. TOTALLY DIFFERENT to later cable operated C3s. Awesome and Great pics Jim D.:-)

And just like post #9 on the top right hand corner from gr79.

You all rock peeps.

[haromaster87]

Yes you all do! Jim, can't thank you enough for the pics! I see now my car does indeed have remnants of the rod operated kick down. Jim, xctasy and everyone else, thank you so much for the help. I should be able to get it all figured out from here. (famous last words)

[FB71]

any time! Let me know if you need more/better pics.

[xctasy]

FB71, I've tried to find a VECI sticker for an 82 2.3 Non feedback, non turbo Mustang 5 speed. Or an auto 2.3 82 Fox Fairmont or similar. Both are colored schematics with all details for emissions hookups typical for that year. I've tried LMR, but they have none for those specific models.