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  1. #1

    Default 85 CFI to EFI swap

    What all is needed to convert my 85 cfi/aod to efi. I know I need an injection harness from an 86 gt and the computer. Im not messing with Mass Air bc I really dont feel like splicing the wires. The intakes are easy enough, but what about fuel rails, sensors, fuel pump, fuel tank, injectors, and all that stuff?

    And if a carb swap also involves messing with all the same stuff, then I would much rather go EFI. I just know not to spend money on CFI if its all crap, so I gotta change the fuel injection if I wanna make it fast, right?

    And if my intention is to make it fast, should I just wire up a megasquirt and forget about the factory EEC?

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    All Ford EECIV and EECV systems are able to be repurposed. Wait for the next Video 12 of #L8R HP

    This one just in 03/21

    https://youtu.be/xeFp_DZMx6o

    You can run a 430 hp 7.3 Godzilla off a 260 hp 4.6 Sohcammer if you have to. Just key sensors and Ford makes that easy


    See this, the 10th and 11 th videos by #L8R HP. Showing how an earlier computer can run a later engine. As long as the sensors plug in and make the right volatage ranges, EECiv is like EECV. Its just needs the factory sensor voltage ranges, then you can still use a scan tool to check eveything is okay.



    https://youtu.be/TDm377Uvo24

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XymrNr...ature=youtu.be

    Like me, hes done a lot of Impco Gas service technician work, in my case, Liquid Propane Gas, for him Natural Gas. Anytime you have a Ford EECIV or EECV, its always the Propane and Natural Gas guys that havd to know where the fuel is timed from, and what the throttle body, injection and ignition sensors need in termd of grey cable data to ensure no faults are triggered.

    Back in 1983, Impco released a TSB book that unlocked EECIII and EECIV sensor requirementd and how to link them to an auxillary computer to run Feedback Propand carbs on a gasoline Emissions Smog engine without making it non compliant on the smog test.



    The MAP only Speed Density sequential or bank fire port 5.0 EFi systems found in passanger cars or trucks require about 12 to 21 of the 42 wet and sensor parts a CFi 5.0 has to be changed.

    MAF sensor augemented SEFi cars are just a few pinouts different to the MAP dedicated SEFi or Bank Fire systems.

    What sets Fords EECIV appart is that MegaSquirt and the Pimp Plug n Play is just a sort of EEC3-1/2 half breed, with a base board with 37 pinouts and a 60 pin Ford style connector with a few nice to have GM sensors. So all the various kinds of MegaSquirt based systems have some ability to cut into a Toyota, Ford or Nissan style dual synch distributor systems. Holley has spent all its time telling people Fords TFi dual synch distribtors that use the distribtor to synchronize the injector phasing are best replaced with there own HyperSpark systems.

    When you upgrade to port EFi from Central Fuel Injection, you have to change to a dual synchronized distributor if you want phased Sequential injection. If you use some lower tier MegaSquirt or the truck bank fire EECIV injection, you can eliminate having to use the 86-96 TFi style ignition. Ford eliminated the EEC1/2/3 crank sensor some feedback and Standard Out Put CFi's used from 80-84. The 84-85 5.0 liter HO EECIV Central Fuel Injection EFi is very much a halfway house.

    To add port EFi to a CFi, you only need a bank fire 1985 5.0 port EFi truck computer and speed density and no dual synch distributor. With Mega Squirt, it varies between build versions. Plug n play Pimp based systems are broadly Speed Density EFi like. What always works is less feature creep, and bank fire truck 5.0 wet gear with a SEFi upper and lower intake will work.

    You can even add the big block 429/460 EECIV twin throttle body 4bbl carb adaptor with 8 injectors found in the F250 big blocks. Stock 4bbl 4180/4185/4190 4 bbl intake with just a dual 54 mm scorpion style adaptor.

    Or a 4bbl Carb lookalike with Port EFi injectors and an alloy HO 4bbl air cleaner. You need to do some thinking about what inspires you.

    By far, bank fire EFi upgrsdes when a car was born CFi.


    Thats easy. Even a Delco P4 Cal Pack from a (gasp!) GM TPi 5.0 or 5.7 is very easy to add to a Stand OutPut Port EFi upper anx lower intake. Everything Toyota, GM, Ford or Nissan used 60 to 62 pinout injector ECM wiring for the 84 to 95 per OBDII ers cars.

    Simplest is the MegaSquirt 2E board version for an EECIV born CFi. You can use stock Duraspark I/II/III ignitions, or the CFi TFi; moving to Sequential Port EFi forces EDIS8 ignition on some MegaSquirts. Its all like this because Ford integrated injection pulsing and ingnition control into the EECIV cpu from Job No 1.

    That means you have to make some cutting rooom floor decisions very early on.

    Id personally say a CFi with earlier external Duralast Crank Position Sensor and Sequentual injection using an earlier Duraspark III from a 1984 California Standard Output 5.0 T bird or XR7 Cougar with an F250 big block 4bbl twin Throttlr body EFi with the 1986 HO EFi Mustang computer and a good 4bbl intake with 8 injector bungs welded in would be simply great.

  3. #3
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    Any pictures of this ?
    You can even add the big block 429/460 EECIV twin throttle body 4bbl carb adaptor with 8 injectors found in the F250 big blocks.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert. 84 GT Turbo Vert.
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    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 74 Mustang II, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 14 Mustang CS/GT,
    15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    This;-

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Idle fuel air ratios and off idle, cold running fuel air ratios are taken care of by the stock 370/429/460 Big block truck 1979 to 1987 carb 4180/4190 series Holley 4bbl systems. A good 3310 750 cfm can copy some of these.

    EFI is better. A Twin Scorpion tail EFI 1993-1996 460 system would be insane with a 4" hood.


    Its a sensational system














    See http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...onversion.html

    Edelbrock make some Port EFi high riser 4bbl intakes, single plane




  5. #5

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    When doing this swap, would I have to retune it?

    And do I HAVE to weld in bungs for the intake? Whats the deal with that?

    And do I have this right? Early Crank Position sensor, F250 throttle body on a carb adaptor intake with a duraspark 3 ignition system and the 86 harness and computer?
    Last edited by lwelchx2; 03-05-2021 at 11:33 AM.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwelchx2 View Post
    When doing this swap, would I have to retune it?

    And do I HAVE to weld in bungs for the intake? Whats the deal with that?

    And do I have this right? Early Crank Position sensor, F250 throttle body on a carb adaptor intake with a duraspark 3 ignition system and the 86 harness and computer?


    Yes. Thats it. I'd go to the 86 HO 5.0 TFi.

    use all the stock EGR spacer the 83-85 4bbl 5.0 and 85-87 5.8 trucks used, stock AIR pump with its TAD/TAB Thermactor, stock Fuel Tech 4bbl plastic throttle body with the AOD throttle valve and VOTM. You should use the stock 86 TFi from tje next years 5.0HO SEFi.

    Rather than using the stock 84 CFi ignition or the 80-84 EEC111 Crank Position sensor.

    The 86 TFi has dual synch, and eliminates a few extra parts.

    Thinking about it, id then grab the Edelbrock 3721 4bbl intake and add eight injectors to it.

    Fords Big Block Port EFis have a simple return line already to use the 1993 7 liter F250 EFi fuel pressure regulator.

    The 1986 Ford 5.0 liter HO speed density computer uses an ISC system which can be hooked to position the 3.8 liter 2bbl CFi idle solenoid control. So everything oxygen sensor has to be updated to the internal O2 sensor pins which Ford started in the 85 CFis. right and left banks of the 86s four O2 sensor tube header exhaust.

    The vacuum take offs as per the 86 HO 5.0, the rocker cover needs an AE Wagner balanced PCV to avoid upsetting the ISC. So everything is an 84/85/86 link to the stock 84 wiring and vacuum systems. This would be a sequential, non MAF 5.0 Port EFi with stock 84 emissions parts.

    No retuning required.

    Sometimes, the 86 TFi can be a dick to work with, and you can turn an 84 Duraspark III into an IDM TFi system with an 80-84 two wire CPS and the stock PIP/Spout module linked to an HEI GM part, but its not well understood. Its basically a Lucas Opus Optospark replacement using a TFi control module. But an 86 TFi ignition will work more easily than adding the CPS system. It was just a suggestion, but its probably not a great idea for me to have burdened you with that info.



    The 86 Port EFi is looking for all the sensor parts that Ford rolled out from 84 to 86. This is just a pick and mix to avoid re programming the 86 Sequential Injection ECU. Ford had an inline fusile link on the early ISCs.Everything will poll as per a stock 86 SEFi, but look like a 4bbl 5.0 1984 GT engine. The control of the emissions parts avoids having to remove or rework too much on the stock 84 systems. The 84 CFi HO and 86 SEFi HO purge/AIR/ EGR systems are looking for the same things.

  7. #7

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    I have no idea what you just said. You're a LOT brighter than I am on the topic. I need it put in laymans terms, so dumb it down for me. What parts do I need to make it work? 86 Injection Harness, 86 Computer, EEC111 Crank Position Sensor, Early Duraspark III, Edelbrock 3721 Intake with bungs welded, And the scorpion f250 throttle body? And the spacer from an 80-84 carbed fox?

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwelchx2 View Post
    I have no idea what you just said. You're a LOT brighter than I am on the topic. I need it put in laymans terms, so dumb it down for me. What parts do I need to make it work? 86 Injection Harness, 86 Computer, EEC111 Crank Position Sensor, Early Duraspark III, Edelbrock 3721 Intake with bungs welded, And the scorpion f250 throttle body? And the spacer from an 80-84 carbed fox?
    1. 86 Injection Harness, stock 19 pound Injectors, no MAF conversion required.

    (Battery can stay where it is, but there is a remote wiring harness relocation kit if you want it to go West. See Note 1 below)

    2. 86 Computer. Unlike your 84 CFI, the O2 sensor pinout differs.

    3a. Edelbrock 3721 Intake with bungs welded
    3b. EGR spacer from Edelbrock

    [QUOTE=xctasy;1909992]Copy the Edelborck 3721/8053 Manifold/EGR combination.


    It has a heat hole on the passenger side.




    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Personal advice. I haven't done this, but I've done a lot of carb research. ..............

    3a.

    EDL-3721



    EDL-8053


    3b.
    4. 17 " 84/85 5.0 Air cleaner

    5. 1986 TFI Ignition with the right type of distributor drive for your cam

    6a. Throttle body:
    Ford Racing's # M-9926-4V175 series throttle body includes a throttle body gasket, throttle position sensor (TPS) and idle air control sensor (IAC) with appropriate mounting screws



    or

    6b Holley's 4 bbl EFI # 112-588 throttle body

    7. Stock CFi control of the existing solenoids. Page 1 shows how much extrta stuff the 86 has, but you don't need half of it because the CFi has its solenoids controlled by the EECIV from the same pins.

    see http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...rts-info/page2

    8. ME Wagner PCV

    http://mewagner.com/?p=444

    http://mewagner.com/?p=1130





    9. Auto 1986 02 sensor loom and
    10. 1986 Four cat exhaust system and headers

    11a and b

    86-93 Fox body Mustang 5.0's have a vacuum tree on the firewall. The ends of the vacuum tree are in fact "caps". The unit is NOT solid. These can sometimes blow out





    - Quick and easy fix for either side. I do have the entire tree available if you'd rather go that route - it is more expensive than the re-popped one's but I do have it.


    Guy's here supply 3D vacuum fittings like the 86 onwards Vacuum tree.

    86capri50,


    this is n20capri's site posts using the same system,


    https://www.shapeways.com/shops/MikesStuff

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...nter-Car-Parts


    86-93 Ford Mustang 5.0 Vacuum Tree Plug



    This is the firewall vacuum tree for 86-93 Mustangs (and 86 Mercury Capri 5.0 - and possibly other Ford and Mercury vehicles). This is no longer available new. Part # E6DC-9C491-AA. Direct replacement part. I also have the end caps if you happened to have blown them out!
    Notes 1
    Quote Originally Posted by plstktnkr2 View Post
    OK kids heres how to move a battery from one side to the other (minus the associated wires , we will get to that. first up WHAT'S IN THE WAY?
    As some of you early Fox owners know ( the ones with the battery on the right side of the car) This swap requires the battery to be moved to the left side of the car. It's not as bad as it would seem. the later model Battery tray is designed for a larger battery on the driver's side of the car. this is EASY!
    This is what is there, yours are probably not red but you get the idea:




    here is what is there to mount the new tray after the wire harness has been moved:



    the bottom bolt gets a blind nut as shown here:



    And two more here: (NOTE: they are not included in the CJ Pony kit):



    Feed wires behind post that goes into channel (yet out of channel) and place battery tray:



    and then after all three bolts are in, install battery :





    and "Voila" you have moved your battery!
    Tune in next time for Battery cable shortening 101

    Happy swapping
    Rick
    The smog stuff, you'll find most of the details on page 2, this post

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...rts-info/page2

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    For wiring and EFI and injector supply and return lines, refer to Ozzie's Boss 347 1986 Capri build

    Wiring

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...03#post1420103


    Fuel lines aren't fully shown but Ozzie has listed the parts in his 3 pager here. It's a Boss 347 8.2 inch deck engine replacement for a former 5.0 SEFi Capri RS engine. "Crate motor".

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...47Boss-project.


















    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Ozzie
    This took a fair bit of time to source out believe it or not. I knew that a JIC and -AN fitting had the same taper (37deg) so I used a mix and match of SS316 and anodized AN.

    On the outside 5/16" fuel supply line is a 5/16" compression x -6AN male fitting made by Earl's (owned by Holley). NO FLARING. Adapts easily to a -6 Female eruseable hose end fitting.

    The inside line in the pic is the 1/4" return line and uses a SS 1/4" compression fitting x 3/8 female tube swivel and then that ties into a 3/8 male tube x 3/8 male JIC. Then it leaves stainless and goes to a standard -6AN (3/8") reuseable hose end fitting. AGAIN, NO FLARING REQUIRED. I would have simply used the same fitting as mentioned above only I couldn't get my hands on a 1/4 compression x -6AN male. Plus, I already had a few fittings in SS kicking around..

    I can get you the part numbers for the fittings if you need them. I found the 1/4" adapter compression fitting the other day after when skimming through an Earl's catalog (of course). You can also get them in Black anodized Miltary spec for a few bucks more! Only thing is you need to be very careful when compressing, the OE fuel lines are super soft. Hopefully I don't get any leaks.
    bfm347 despite his name is a 351w/408w guy, but has videos on the 3848 elbow single throttle body to 4bbl EFi intake process.

    Brooks choices were If EFi, Edelbrock 3848 elbow on 4bbl intake or stock GT40 intake.



    My personal choice is Wilsons or Accufab 4-bbl 4150 or the slightly nastier plastic FuelTech 4bbl throttle bodies. Accufab carries a Ford Performance badge on some versions...you pay for that oval!

    FuelTech and Holley Efi throttle bodies are WAY cheaper, but not better because of the fuel rail to linkage issues which happen on 8.2" deck Fords. Only the US specialty 4-bbl Throttle bodies seam to get this part right.

    Not much room exists between the injectors and the down shift Throttle Valve with an AOD.









    The AOD down shift throttle vlave and the stock Accufab TPS can be changed if any of it hits the injector rails. There are excellent parts for this 4bbl throttle body.



    All issues with Port EFi updates to CFi engines are covered with info from other posts.


    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...swap-queations

    bfm347 tips:-



    HOOD stock hood or cowl
    FUEL efi or carb
    EXHAUST stock or not
    DRIVELINE auto or manual, LMR 157 28oz flywheel, or does it have to be SFI rated for drag racing
    INTAKE EFi Lower intake is wider and 5.8 truck Fuel rails differ; 4bbl intake is taller
    SUSPENSION front sway bar required 1-1/4" front sway bar spacer to clear oil pan; SN95 sway bar mounts help
    OIL PAN stock 351 W Panther or oil pan swap custom aftermarket
    ACCESSORY PLAN a/c required? Supercharger planned?

    other questions:-
    SD (speed density) or MAF (mass air-flow)
    are stock, convertible or LMR 351 swap "solid motor" mounts going to be okay?
    Is K- member spacing required? Steering Rag joint can intrude, accessories and header spacing differs depending.
    If EFi, Edelrock 3848 elbow on 4bbl intake or stock GT40 intake
    TFI distributor mates to 351



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JIJMTFTBgM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zgGe2bfnK4

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