Close



Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1

    Default Ford LTD 3.8 V6 to 5.0 V8 Swap Questions

    Hi all, I'm new to this site so please bare with me if some of these questions have been asked. Long story short, i bought a 40 dollar 1984 Ford LTD (Foxbody, of course) 3.8 Carb V6 that was abandoned since 1997. The owner before me decided it'd be smart to crank it after 20 years of sitting. The lifters seem to be worn out. It starts and drives (barely under its own power) but it seems just very worn out. I flirted with the fact of just fixing up the V6 but now I am dead set on doing a 302/5.0 swap to this. I have a few questions on a swap like this. I can not find much documentation on this car by any mean, which makes this a challenge. I compiled a list of basic questions to start out on getting an idea on how this will pan out. I appreciate any answers or comments, thank you so much.

    1. If i were to find a low-milage, good running donor motor from my local junkyard on a 80's LTD Crown Vic, would that work on this? What about a 5.0 HO from a 1994 Mustang GT?
    2. Are any of the 3.8 V6 accessories able to stay in the swap, such as the water pump, brake booster, cooling system, power steering, etc?
    3. Would an SN95 5.0 K-member fit for this swap?
    4. After doing some research, it seems like the 3.8 v6 and the 5.0 LX had the same 4-speed AOD transmission, is this true?
    5. Lastly, i made a list of things needed to my knowledge for this swap, Anything to add or remove? Thanks.
    Ford 302/5.0 Motor
    K-Member
    Transmission (Maybe)
    60 Amp Alternator
    Exhaust Manifold
    Exhaust
    Front Right Motor Mount
    Front Left Motor Mount
    Fuel Pump
    Drive Belt
    Engine Control Module

    Again, I appreciate any guidance on this. Thank you so much!

  2. #2

    Default

    I swapped a 302 in to my ‘83 mustang, it was born with the 3.8.

    I didn’t change the k member, just engine mounts.
    I kept the original power steering pump and alternator, but the alternator mounts to the other side on the 302 so I had to extend the wiring.

    I put a carb on the 302 and ran a low pressure electric fuel pump.

    I left the brakes stock for a while and it was ok, I later upgraded to 87-93 spindles and bigger rotors.

    I believe a ‘94 mustang has a longer transmission than earlier cars.

    Hope this helps!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chicago, south subs
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    The LTD could have an AOD or a C5. Either one should bolt up to a 5.0, the bell housing bolt pattern is the same. You would need to make accommodations for the TV cable if it's an AOD. The C5 will work, but the lock up converter probably won't like the 5.0's torque. The accessory brackets are different between the 2 engines. Lots of guys use the Explorer 5.0 when sourcing from the JY, but any healthy one will do.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    The LTD could have an AOD or a C5. Either one should bolt up to a 5.0, the bell housing bolt pattern is the same. You would need to make accommodations for the TV cable if it's an AOD. The C5 will work, but the lock up converter probably won't like the 5.0's torque. The accessory brackets are different between the 2 engines. Lots of guys use the Explorer 5.0 when sourcing from the JY, but any healthy one will do.
    Thank you very much! The explorer transmission would not work, right? Do you suggest that i just stick with my transmission if it’s an AOD or should i try to find a transmission too?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AldeanFan View Post
    I swapped a 302 in to my ‘83 mustang, it was born with the 3.8.

    I didn’t change the k member, just engine mounts.
    I kept the original power steering pump and alternator, but the alternator mounts to the other side on the 302 so I had to extend the wiring.

    I put a carb on the 302 and ran a low pressure electric fuel pump.

    I left the brakes stock for a while and it was ok, I later upgraded to 87-93 spindles and bigger rotors.

    I believe a ‘94 mustang has a longer transmission than earlier cars.

    Hope this helps!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This does help a lot. Where did you source your motor from, a donor car or just a new/rebuilt motor?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chicago, south subs
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    If it has the AOD, I would probably keep that, if it's in good shape. I'm not sure what trans is in an Explorer, but if it's 4WD it obviously wouldn't work. As mentioned, the accessories can stay, but you'll need the brackets for a V8. You said the 3.8 was carbed? If that's the case, that would be the easiest way to go with the 5.0

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    If it has the AOD, I would probably keep that, if it's in good shape. I'm not sure what trans is in an Explorer, but if it's 4WD it obviously wouldn't work. As mentioned, the accessories can stay, but you'll need the brackets for a V8. You said the 3.8 was carbed? If that's the case, that would be the easiest way to go with the 5.0
    so transmission brackets for a V8? yes, it is carbureted. Are you saying that I should go carbureted for the 5.0 also?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Chicago, south subs
    Posts
    2,136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andrecq417 View Post
    so transmission brackets for a V8? yes, it is carbureted. Are you saying that I should go carbureted for the 5.0 also?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Accessory brackets. Carbureted or efi is up to you. If the car/fuel system is already set up for a carburetor, that would be much simpler. I converted my Fairmont to a stand alone aftermarket fuel injection system. Staying carbed would have been much simpler, but I wanted fuel injection. It would have been much cheaper too.

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Every time you migrate from carb to any kind of EFi, throttle body injection, or Port EFi, you need to procure about 39 to 42 mission-specific parts. There is no way around it because the wet gear has to be pressure regulated and electrically and electronically managed. If the car was born 3.8 Central Fuel Injected, Port EFi is 95% ready to run
    Just the fuel pressure regulator and about 5 other of the 42 total parts are needed.

    Im guessing your car is Canadian, because all 84 3.8s were CFi.

    The AOD option got withdrawn on the 3.8, with the 3 stage lock-upclutch C5 becoming the standard power train according to my Consumer Guide in 1984. The 3.8 got an HO high stall converter with the AOD, so its a 5.0 HO CFi spec trans converter if its an AOD 3.8.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Every time you migrate from carb to any kind of EFi, throttle body injection, or Port EFi, you need to procure about 39 to 42 mission-specific parts. There is no way around it because the wet gear has to be pressure regulated and electrically and electronically managed. If the car was born 3.8 Central Fuel Injected, Port EFi is 95% ready to run
    Just the fuel pressure regulator and about 5 other of the 42 total parts are needed.

    Im guessing your car is Canadian, because all 84 3.8s were CFi.

    The AOD option got withdrawn on the 3.8, with the 3 stage lock-upclutch C5 becoming the standard power train according to my Consumer Guide in 1984. The 3.8 got an HO high stall converter with the AOD, so its a 5.0 HO CFi spec trans converter if its an AOD 3.8.
    Yes, it’s CFi. So you’re saying if i did a swap with a 5.0 Fuel Injected it would not be as difficult and would require less parts than if mine were fully carbureted?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    Accessory brackets. Carbureted or efi is up to you. If the car/fuel system is already set up for a carburetor, that would be much simpler. I converted my Fairmont to a stand alone aftermarket fuel injection system. Staying carbed would have been much simpler, but I wanted fuel injection. It would have been much cheaper too.
    Ah so i made a mistake, it’s CFi, not fully carbureted. It seems as if i could go either way with this swap since CFi to FI is a relatively simple process


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andrecq417 View Post
    Yes, it’s CFi. So you’re saying if i did a swap with a 5.0 Fuel Injected it would not be as difficult and would require less parts than if mine were fully carbureted?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Yes, its easy because that year had most of the pins to the kick pannel EECIV computer pinned the same way to the 60 point connector. Only difference was the O2 sensor and the idle control is the same. Most people upgrade to a MAF sensored 1988 to 1995 engine, which has extra wiring but its a great system. Grab any Port EFi engine and its computer and if you want to, even a 351W truck engine. The 1993 to 1994 are MAF, but you can also use a Speed Density computer.

    If you havent bought anything, consider how you might want to continue. One option is an old 1970 to 1974 2V 351 Torino or Mustang two barrel V8. You then just get a 5.0 HO CFi throttle body and computer, and those cars make 173 hp and take all the V8 5 liter throttle body injection parrs and everything fits under the hood if you use your V6 air cleaner.

  13. #13

    Default

    Carburetor will always be easier than fuel injection.

    You need to decide your needs and wants,
    How much will you drive the car, how much power do you want and what’s your budget.

    These questions will drive all the decisions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14

    Default

    If you have a cfi then it is easier to just go fuel injection. The fuel system is already set up for it (you’ll need to run a single exhaust unless you convert to a single pump). Just need intake/rails/regulator for the fuel system. Most of the hard parts can be sourced cheaply on the used market. For the engine control you could try to grab all the parts (harness/maf/ecu) but unless you find some great deals it’s nearly the same price as aftermarket efi (with new, not 30yr wiring).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1984 LTD LX, 160k mile Explorer 5.0, Comp XE264HR-14 cam, Alex’s Parts springs on stock GT40 3 bar heads, Unported Explorer intake, 1 5/8 shorty headers, off-road H-Pipe, Spintech 9000 mufflers, Holley Terminator X Max, J-Mod 4R70W, Mustang 8.8 w/ 3.73s, Tubular front and rear control arms, front coilovers, Turbocoupe rear coil springs

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    If you can track down an 84 or 85 HO 5.0 CFi throttle body,
    and the TFi unit that they came with

    You use a 460 TFI distributor.
    The 351c uses the same firing order as an HO 5.0,
    and the 460 distributor interchanges with a 351c,
    The 351 Cleveland has the small block bell housing pattern and will bolt right up.

    The 2V iron intake has a Motorcraft CFi bolt pattern and any of the 351C 2V or 351M 2V heads flow 206 cfm, 25% more than the 1984 5.0 HO heads.

    351M/and 400 engines have the big block pattern and require other transmissions.


    The stock 2v/2bbl intakes flow enough to make 265 hp gross. The 5.0 HO Central Fuel Injection can make about 235 hp net without too many issues.


    The old throttle body 5.0 High Output had the same came profile as the best 351c 2v and 351m's.

    Quote Originally Posted by emerygt350 View Post
    Oh, and the last dyno I did at 40psi had 172hp 232torque at the rear wheels, but that was with my old borked ignition system. I suspect it is 10 higher now, and the peak has been pushed into the high 4 to low 5k range compared to the mid 4ks before.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    If you can track down an 84 or 85 HO 5.0 CFi throttle body,
    and the TFi unit that they came with

    You use a 460 TFI distributor.
    The 351c uses the same firing order as an HO 5.0,
    and the 460 distributor interchanges with a 351c,
    The 351 Cleveland has the small block bell housing pattern and will bolt right up.

    The 2V iron intake has a Motorcraft CFi bolt pattern and any of the 351C 2V or 351M 2V heads flow 206 cfm, 25% more than the 1984 5.0 HO heads.

    351M/and 400 engines have the big block pattern and require other transmissions.


    The stock 2v/2bbl intakes flow enough to make 265 hp gross. The 5.0 HO Central Fuel Injection can make about 235 hp net without too many issues.


    The old throttle body 5.0 High Output had the same came profile as the best 351c 2v and 351m's.
    Sorry, I just saw this. Thanks! I know this is far out but has anyone attempted a 351 swap on these LTD’s?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    FEP Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    721

    Default

    A 351 (W not C or M) is not going to be any easier or more difficult than a 302. It all depends on how you want the engine outfitted. Whatever you do, the more complete an engine (fuel, ignition, accessories, wiring, etc) you can start with the better. One thing I have learned is that no matter how simple an engine swap seems like it should be you always run into things you never planned on. It is usually simple stuff like brackets, hose routing, wiring that you just can't find anymore that trip you up and take the most time.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
    '91 Crown Vic P72 351W
    '97 Thunderbird
    '85 Ford LTD Squire

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    The 3.8 and 351C share the same 9.206 to 9.22 iron block deck height. Same as the old Barra 4.0. This is in the not to cold nit to hot range, where everything packages.

    The 351 W is 9.469 to 9.500 and is just in the cusp of being too dificult to package. The 351M/400 Ford and all the big blocks are around 10.320 or 10.220, bad for hood height collision, but easier for exhaust clearance.

    The maon issue for the 351 Cleveland is sump and dipstick.Canton make one, but you can custom build with relative ease.

    Exhausts...the iron headers work, and Ford designed the Boss 351C and deTomaso Pantera around iron headers. The Clevelands air con pulley and the 3.8 V6s serpentine tensioner work 100% together.

    There is no on line pictorial of 351C into Fox LTD or MTX's. Only the old Hot Rod Mark Sancez and AEW/ Ford Motorsport conversion kits.

    Generally, its wiring and not sumps or headers that stop people doing bigger than 3.8 engine swaps into Fox Marquis and LtLTD's.

    Ak Miller said it best in 1983's Impco Tech Services Bulletin...the EECIV and TFi ignition have low reference voltage systems with 5 volt polling rates rather than 9 or 12 volts typical of EECIII or GMs CCC command module. The advantages is Fords up till 1985 wont have a Malfunction Indicator Lamp. So most of the engine swap issues are related to keeping the OEM wiring protocols the same and not cutting sh1÷ out and creating a One Flew Over the Cookoos Nest Frontal Labotomy by thinking you know more than the Ford Motor Company. The short deck Cleveland 2V ran on pump unleaded, had a 2 bbl carb and HO firing order and will fit easier than any 5.8 Liter Windsor 351 if you follow the rules. The cam profile is straight Explorer 5.0. The 173 hp net rating for the last 1974 Torino 2V could easily go up with a better aluminum manifold and some simple valve pocket porting easily taking the 206 cfm heads up to 230 cfm. As long as the cam isnt too big, any 5.0 HO CFi system will work on a 17% bigger engine. The 5.0 HO cam the CFi used was a Tornio H code 351W cam profile, a scrreamer cam. The 351C will use the single mass AOD or C5 28 ounce unbalance flexplate also used on the 351W G code LTD or Crown Victoria Panther platform cars.

    In the old days between 1981 and 1991, people like Hot Rod, Car Craft or Fast Fords and Mustangs...they told you part numbers and what Hollinger interchange part worked. 2021, its all about Cut-outs and being ignorant. The Cleveland is just a recast Small Block with a 351W firing order, better heads and less deck height and its a non brainer.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2ksteeda View Post
    Just saw this thread. I have a 71 351c with closed chamber 4v heads in my 85 coupe.
    It has
    a 393 stroker kit,
    hyd roller cam,
    torker 351 intake and 830 annular carb.

    It runs very strong and has plenty of torque.
    I'm using a stock k-member with 1/4 spacers under each engine mount for header clearance (heddman 4v swap headers).

    I am eventually going to use a tubular k-member so I can lose the 1/4 spacers hopefully.

    Hood clearance is tight, I run a cowl hood on mine.

    Trans is a tremec tko600 with centerforce flywheel and dual friction clutch (28oz imbalance).

    I had to fab my own midpipe for the exhaust but it was pretty straight forward.

    For engine accessory brackets you will have some decisions to make. I fab'd my own so I could use fox ac, ps and alternator.

    Aftermarket serpentine setups are available but $$$.

    Get a good radiator and fan setup (I'm using an alum rad and Mark VIII fan). If you have any questions let me know!

    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...rnator-on-351C

    Dave's mustangxtreme photo's

    400 Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by mustangxtreme View Post
    Here"s an update... it seems to take way more time than it should to get things to come together.

    Here is the engine in it's current state. I have the accessories installed, the broken exhaust bolt taken care of and am currently finishing the mods to the k-member.

    Engine.jpg

    I used the power steering bracket from my 3.8 and a custom made bracket with an idler pulley for the power steering.

    PS_Mountg.jpg

    The alternator is a 3G which I enlarged the mount hole and a custom bracket for tension adjustment.

    AltMount.jpg

    The crank pulley and the water pump were generously donated by a 5.0L Lincoln.

    To complete the mods to the 96 k-member, I trimmed about 1/2" from the aft end of the k-member and need to expand the slots to match up with the earlier k-members.

    K-memberMod2.jpg

    K-memberMod.jpg












    Sump



    bolt to hold oil pickup















    Quote Originally Posted by mustangxtreme View Post
    I have a 400 in my 81Black Magic Capri with headers, not that I would recommend you follow my cheapa$$ method of installation.

    It involved a 96 Mustang k-member (modded to place the engine as far back as possible), some sheet metal to fab an oil pan, some 351c headers for a 67 Mustang, some exhaust pipe to make the headers fit the car, a $30.00 bolt to hold my extended oil pickup, relocate the transmission cross member brackets, fab up a new cross member and shorten a driveshaft.

    All this so I could make the claim I don't follow the crowd.

  20. #20
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andrecq417 View Post
    Sorry, I just saw this. Thanks! I know this is far out but has anyone attempted a 351 swap on these LTD’s?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    No.

    The Reason I suggested the Cleveland 351 2V is because its really solid.

    If you have the small compact 3.8 starter motor,
    15 inch air cleaner
    a/c pulley and serpentine drive
    a 164 teeth AOD flexplate with 28 oz unbalance,

    then your dough is bread already.

    CFi and TFi are not a problem because the big Cleveland shares the 5.0 HO and Windsor 351 firing order and the 2-bbl CFi 5.0 and 3.8 injector flange.

    So no electronics, no gearbox issues, just the air cleaner and sump. CEP Iron manifolds will work. Four cat Mustang 86 exhaust is a good option.

    That leaves just a Trans Go gearbox rebuild and rear end gear options, the 8.8 incher has 35 % stronger center section, but the same axles as the 7.5 that might be in it now.

    I'm Objectively a 351 guy, but Ford sure got its corporate fingers burnt over the 335 series engine. It was destined to be an FE 352/360/361/390 replacement.

    Specifically a Y code 390 2V 1968 Ford Torino replacement which made 265 hp in dual exhaust 1970 351c 2v form.

    A stock H code 1970 2V 351C might have been a 205 hp net engine with tis 9.5:1 compression ratio.


    Instead, the gas crunch, Speed Kills insurance premiums, and smog rules forced Ford to urgently co-opt development with Honda and then Texaco on some new Windsor 351 PROCO and cut down CVHH four cylinder 3.3 liter I6 engines from 1975 to 1981. These never came out due to cost.

    On the Cleveland 335 program, base engine compression ratios dropped

    1970 351c 2v = 9.5:1
    1971 351c 2v = 9.0:1
    1972 351c 2v = 8.6:1
    1973 351c 2v = 8.5 or 8.0:1

    Ford lists the 351c 2v heads for all years as having a volume 76.9-79.9, else-ware, 74.0-76.4 cc's.


    For 1972, the 351C 2V was de-rated from 230 hp gross to 177 hp net with an 8.6:1 compression ratio.

    For 1973, 159 hp for a 8.0:1 compression ratio.

    You could order your 1974 Gran Torino with a 170hp 400 2V or a 460 4V with 220 hp, but the 4V Cleveland Q code option that year made 255 hp net, and was considered the only "high-performance" engine offered that year. The issue was, Ford never listed official hp ratings on the 4V versions from 1973 to 1974 because they were stockpiled for deTomaso 248 hp Pantera L , 246 hp (restricted exhaustTorino/Montego), Mustang CobraJet 266 hp, Mustang HO 275 and Gran Torino 255 hp versions which never passed the California Emissions regs. So they supplied engines built at different times to the car build date on de Tomaso's and also some Mustangs. The Torinos got 48 state engines, the High Altitude and Cali versions weren't 4V 351 equipped. If you wanted a Pantera L in Cali, you ordered it out of state with a compliance California 1973 engine for 1974...





    Ford had so many major issues with what it was going to do with 10 engine designs between 300 and 400 cubes, and HFII decided to keep the Windsor 351 Canadian engine, the Cleveland based Michican built 351M and 400 plant as well as the 370/429/460 Big Blocks.


    Accordingly, the US made 351 Cleveland's were phased out in 1975, and some of the tooling sent to Australia. The Michigan plant 351M and 400 were the effective replacements, still called Cleveland's in various literature.

    The engine continued in Australia, a Y-code is was a 2bbl 4.9 liter Cleveland grocery getter with a US block, and it could do 16.9 secs and 112 mph top speed in a 240 HP dual exhaust 4 speed or C4 Falcon Two Door Hardtop, or a 17.8 second quarter in a 230 hp single exhaust XB Fairmont Station Wagon. Or 16.9 second quarters and 118 mph in a 1979 4bbl 4.9 Fairmont with C4 Auto. By then it had became an 207/195 hp P code 4-BBL 302 in July 1976, and then a 188 hp P code after March 1979, or a B code extra smog engine for New South Wales for 1982 .

    The T code 216 hp 4bbl 5.8 2V in July 1976, and the 200 hp T or H code (for New South Wales) to 1982.

    The Aussie Full size Bronco was still using the 216 hp T code till 1985.


    By 1980, the LTD/Marquis 165 hp 351W 2V HO matched the 1973 engine. It took 7 years to match the 351C 2V

    1981 Crown Victoria/ Gran Marquis 172 hp 351W 2V HO was introduced ( same high lift, long duration cam; 165-172hp, and 180hp from 1984-1991. That ended up being the 300 hp 1995 SVT Mustang Cobra R 351 cam).

    For the 1983 model year, the USA had its last 351M 2V de-smogged down to just 138 hp. The 1984-1988 4-BBL 5.0 or 5.8 truck HO engines made more power than the 351M.

    Ford began phasing in better Cleveland style cams and the 1979 429 Holley 4-bbls in the Mustangs of 1982, 9 years after the death of the 351C 2V. Then another 21 years after the death of the 4V 1974 Q codes 255 hp engine, the 240 and 300 hp 5.8 EFI Windsor's in the Lightening and Cobra R 351 came out.

    See https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog...tender-part-2/

    Vince sourced many of my pictures here on the M code 351 thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    The race 1981 Falcon used 2V closed chamber heads and stock ignition, and made 7 hp more than the 4V headed 1972 GTHO Phase IV Falcon.

    9 years, 7 hp extra. For 1982, 4V heads became legal, then by 1984, they ended up true 450 hp engines. The 4V heads and better intake with better induction was worth more than 60 hp.

    Little wonder the whole engine program galvanised Ford racing for then next 2 years untill the Group A era and 390 hp Windsor 5.0's.


    The dominance of Ford created a sensational problem when the much slicker XA Falcon came out with the 30 extra hp more.





    The use of road cars for racng development effectively stopped then, but the Improved Racing rules still required homologation, and so Ford Australia did lots of Cleveland tweeks from 1973 to 1983.

    First was the new black D2AE-CA block, Blackwood Falcon XD engine. Since the XC Falcon in 1976, the 351C had run a Carter Thermoquad 9800 4BBL, and Bosch Duraspark small cap and integrated control unit ignition.





    Second was the block changes for NASCAR XE blocks



    The D2 AE CA was a many varaint beast block, with various pillow block variants under the same part number.





    and the last of the line oddballs, the XE engine, which was the defacto NASCAR engine


    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    NavyCats homage car was rated as the 5th greatest Australian car of all time.

    https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...ilt-cars-ever/




    They ment 6.4 seconds for 0-60 mph...

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    With engineer Adrian Owen in Alexandra in 1988, I was involved in one 351Windsor 4V and one 351Cleveland 2V 4bbl swap in a 1977 Ford Fairmont XC sedan and a 1971 Ford Falcon 500 XY sedan, Craig Vause and Blair Gregory were the respective owners. Each of us discussed the virtues of the bigger 351s over the 4.7 and 5 liter 289 and 302 8.206 deck engines my friend had in his 1968 XR Falcon 600. The firing order, deck height and how they might match up to the Ford Central Fuel Injection or Fords Port Fuel Injection was discussed over 1988 Australian Street Machine, US Hot Rod and US Muscle Mustang and Ford books. The issue my shop forman had was that a 2bbl CFi unit would work on any of those three different kinds of engine. The size issues are not a problem if you find the right information on what mounts, sump and air cleaner, manifolds and throttle body and TFi unit gors with what engine.

    Many say this and that, but the Cleveland 351 2V and its 75-83 351M tall block brother started with 265 hp, dropped to 173 hp net in 1973, then 148 hp in 1975, then 138 hp for 1983. Yet the 2V heads flow 412 hp net without any changes while the 5.0 wont go past 300 hp. The weight issues are taken care of by an alloy intake which allows you to use the factory EGR and still come in under 569 pounds without A/C. Same as the Port EFi 5.0 with all its ancillaries.

    With the right induction system, and the 15 inch 351C/ 351M/ 3.8 or 5.0 Standard Output CFi air cleaner, a 351C 2V 2 bbl will drop right on in if iron headers are used. And dont forget..Boss 351s used iron headers with a 290 degree solid lifter cam. So if you can find one, an unleaded fuel 351 C 2V will work without any major wiring or fitting issues.


    In closing, I'll post the 1982 2V 351 Fairmont throttle body EFi system used in a 1988 conversion done by Australian Street machine. Edelbrock intake and a McGee throttle body. If you cant do that kinda stuff for a fraction of the 3500 dollar cost it took back then...Ill feel Ive failed you. Intermediate Fox Ford LTD electeonic systems were then and are know still on the cutting edge of easy. If you read up and use what is there. Rather than Binning the Information Technology and control systems that already work. Its a lot like finding the Luna Lander Computer.

    Youll be suprised how clever it all was.

  22. #22
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Key with the 5.8 liter Cleveland is how much like the 1989 to 1994 3.8 liter Super Coupes SC heads it is like. Ford used aluminum A3 style NASCAR head design,themselves small port 4V Clevelands with 15%less port area









    Unlike any of the 5.0 or 351 Windsor's, the stock Cleveland's 9.2 deck is 3.8 height, with 3.8 style Rec Ports.

    That means a 2 bbl CFi 5.0 HO 1.69 " throttle body with two injectors can be teamed up with another 8 high port, non intake runner system. Just like the Supercharged Thunderbird


    I showed how the Ford V8 Fairmont and Mustang guys were doing EFi on both sides of the ponds in 1988

    Nothing is needed but some collage level math and some right period era information.


    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    bfm347's 4-bbl Port EFI 351W http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...swap-queations


    and Pancakeshake's 351W both use 4-bbl intakes drilled for EFi. EFi, Edlebrock 3848 elbow on single plane 4bbl intake

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ri-Turbo-Build


    This was how it was done back in 1988 in Australia too, using Hedley, Chris and Phil McGee's 4-BBL Holley base EFi unit in the 5.8 liter Cleveland "HO 2 GO" Street Machine project car.

    McGee Racing are now in the US



Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •