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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default 84 NWC T5 trans fluid

    Hey all, I know this topic has been done to death but after all the reading I'm still not sure what fluid to put in my 84 nwc trans.For every person that says one thing there are 10 that say the opposite. I've heard gear oil then I've been told not to use gear oil. Can someone help me out? Thanks
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  2. #2
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    This was just covered about 2 weeks ago. Maybe it was on FB.
    Gear oil is not the same weight as the rear. 50w? I think. Option 1
    Type F ATF Option 2
    Type Dextron 2 ATF Option 3

    Newer synthetics which replace the old types may not be a good choice.

    I’m sure someone will speak up with exact info.
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  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    This was just covered about 2 weeks ago. Maybe it was on FB.
    Gear oil is not the same weight as the rear. 50w? I think. Option 1
    Type F ATF Option 2
    Type Dextron 2 ATF Option 3

    Newer synthetics which replace the old types may not be a good choice.

    I’m sure someone will speak up with exact info.
    Oh ya it's been covered a lot but it seems no one can agree on what's best to use. I do have a quart and a half of Pensoil ATF type F automatic trans and power steering fluid from a flush I just finished on my power steering fluid.
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  4. #4
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    I plan to use the Redline replacement for Type F/Dextron 2 on my 84 GT. They have a look up on their site. I would look to see what’s in there now color wise. I don’t think gear oil is red.
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    If your not able to get the old type ATF, Tremec recommends straight 30 weight motor oil. The newer type of ATF doesn't work with the brass syncronizer rings that the NWC T5's use.

  6. #6
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodon64 View Post
    If your not able to get the old type ATF, Tremec recommends straight 30 weight motor oil. The newer type of ATF doesn't work with the brass syncronizer rings that the NWC T5's use.
    By old ATF do you mean type F?
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  7. #7
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    I plan to use the Redline replacement for Type F/Dextron 2 on my 84 GT. They have a look up on their site. I would look to see what’s in there now color wise. I don’t think gear oil is red.
    Just had a look at the redline site. Would that be the D4 ATF?
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  8. #8
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    Ah, yes. I knew someone would post up some details.

    My guess D4 stands for Dexron 4. That sounds like it could be an issue. There is not a lot of info for Dexron 4 as it’s probable obsolete. What I do see indicates Dexron 4 is for Japanese transmissions.

    Type F was for auto trans up the 1981 and was specifically for bronze clutch plates.

    I should try contacting Redine for more info. They are somewhat local to me.
    Last edited by KevinK; 01-11-2021 at 01:13 AM.
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  9. #9
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Although many of the early NWC 5 speeds used some specification of gear oil, it was generally determined by the OEM manufacturer as Borg Warner did not give a specification. Most that I have spoken with over the years have been using Synchromesh fluid as the current lubricate with very good success and no noticeable negative wear characteristics. Good Luck!
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  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Although many of the early NWC 5 speeds used some specification of gear oil, it was generally determined by the OEM manufacturer as Borg Warner did not give a specification. Most that I have spoken with over the years have been using Synchromesh fluid as the current lubricate with very good success and no noticeable negative wear characteristics. Good Luck!
    Ok, I know the fluid that's in it currently is red. Is it better to drain it completely and add whatever fluid I choose or can I just top it up? I'm going to be replacing my oem shifter for a short throw soon and figured I'd fill it up from the top.
    Also, how much does it take to fill when empty?
    Last edited by Sask84gt; 01-11-2021 at 11:00 AM.
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  11. #11

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    Ford did not specify the use of gear oil in their NWC T-5. They specified automatic transmissions fluid, or more specifically Dexron-II(D), in their owner and shop manuals. "Dexron" was/is a GM trademarked ATF.

    Dexron-II(D) has long been replaced by newer Dexron and or Mercon fluid specifications. Ford said the original Mercon (1987) fluid was compatible with Dexron-II(D), and has since said that Mercon V (1996) can be used to replace Mercon.

    The T-5 fill capacity is 2.8 quarts.
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  12. #12
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I have never owned a Mustang with a NWC T5, so I wasn't 100% sure what Ford specified, but I thought it was always ATF. Personally I use the Synchromesh in all my T5's and have never had an issue. Wouldn't hesitate to use it in a NWC since Ford specified ATF to begin with. Good Luck!
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  13. #13
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Hmm ok. I do have access to Amsoil syncromesh 5w30 manual trans fluid. Says in description that it is safe on brass synchros. Would this work?
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  14. #14
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I have always used Pennzoil's Synchromesh fluid. It meets the GM specification for Synchromesh fluid, which is what many recommend as the best option for the T5 transmission. I refuse to buy it from GM on principle alone , so I just buy the Pennzoil. Not sure on Amsoil since I have not used it. If it meets General Motors specification 9985648 for use where GM part numbers 12345349 or 12345577 are called out for use, then I would say you are good to go. Good Luck!
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  15. #15
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    I have always used Pennzoil's Synchromesh fluid. It meets the GM specification for Synchromesh fluid, which is what many recommend as the best option for the T5 transmission. I refuse to buy it from GM on principle alone , so I just buy the Pennzoil. Not sure on Amsoil since I have not used it. If it meets General Motors specification 9985648 for use where GM part numbers 12345349 or 12345577 are called out for use, then I would say you are good to go. Good Luck!
    Ok, it says it meets those numbers so that will work. I also can get the pensoil stuff to without going to gm lol. I'm just worried because it's a NWC and has some different internals.
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  16. #16
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sask84gt View Post
    Ok, it says it meets those numbers so that will work. I also can get the pensoil stuff to without going to gm lol. I'm just worried because it's a NWC and has some different internals.
    Ford recommend ATF fluid for the transmission to begin with, so the Synchromesh fluid will work just fine.

    Here is a quote from Modern Drive Line in regards to fluid. "One last piece of important information.ALL World Class T5 use ATF (Dextron III) oil and NOT heavy gear oil or Redline MTL! All NON-World Class T5 use 50 wt gear oil. (The original Ford/Borg-Warner recommendation back in 1984 was Dextron II. As this is no longer available, we and TREMEC recommend the 50 wt gear oil.)
    We recommend high quality Synthetic oil as it lasts a long time and over a larger operating temperature. It is important to change the oil in your transmission based on how you use the vehicle. If the vehicle is your daily driver then changing the oil every two to three years is fine. However, if the transmission sees regular track duty and pushed hard, then once or twice a year is in order.
    When we rebuild transmissions, we can tell when the oil has been changed often as the parts are much cleaner with less over all wear. There is no filter inside the manual transmission only a magnet at the bottom to pick up the metallic particles in the oil, the only metallic parts in a transmission is the gears or bearings. ” Oil is cheap, transmissions are not ! “

    Personally I would still use the Synchromesh as I don't see how 50wt oil compares to Dexron II, especially since Dexron II is listed as backwards compatible with Dexron II, but your opinion may vary. Good Luck!
    Last edited by wraithracing; 01-11-2021 at 04:43 PM.
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  17. #17

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    That is the same website that just a few years ago had no mention of Dexron-II(D) being the original spec'd fluid. So I would not trust their recommendation of 50W gear oil.
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  18. #18
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
    That is the same website that just a few years ago had no mention of Dexron-II(D) being the original spec'd fluid. So I would not trust their recommendation of 50W gear oil.

    I don't disagree. I was just trying to give some additional information. As I stated, I don't see how 50wt gear oil matches up with Dexron II or III. In my experience they are totally different oils/lubricants and are not interchangeable. But then again . . . What do I really know?

    OH! I actually had forgotten we did own a 1984 Trans Am 5.0/5spd that my father bought new in 1984. That was a NWC T5 and it used Dexron II or III as the transmission oil from the factory. Never put any gear oil in it and it worked just fine for all those years.
    Last edited by wraithracing; 01-11-2021 at 06:42 PM.
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  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Welp seems like I'm still just as confused on what to use as I was before I started the thread lol.
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  20. #20

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    My '83, which I bought new, has a non world class T5 and it came from the factory with gear oil, not ATF. My '91 with a World Class T5 came from the factory with ATF.

  21. #21

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    Sask84gt, I was just in the process of changing mine in my 83. Did what you did checked everywhere figured I'd go with the Valvoline Synchromesh. When I got under to pull the plug the plug was an inny (usually) a sign of a WC t5 use a 3/8 socket drive to turn it. NWC uses (usually) an outy plug a wrench to turn it. Upon draining I found red trans fluid inside. I worked my way to the back and looked at the tag it was an 86 WC t5. Nice surprise! Returned the Synchromesh bought Valvoline DEX/MERC (for vehicles requiring Dexron-III/Mercon) and put that in. Just be sure to check your transmission tag, you may be surprised. Note the plug diffences aren't gospel just a hint to check deeper. Good Luck on your quest

  22. #22

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    Here is my reasoning on those 2 different types of fluids. Gear oils I believe are rated differently than traditional oils in that they are thinner than I am used to in engine oils and have different additives but thinner was my key takeaway to get into tight tolerances. The (only) reason for the ATF in the WC t5 is the newer non-brass synchronisers and the potential for damage to them from gear oil additives. Not sure if that's right or not but after all my reading that's what I came away with. Just do what you think it's only $20 to check it out and switch back if needed, I used a boat fluid pump with a clear plasic hose it was easy

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Default using what works

    Just like engine oil, trans fluid specs keep changing. SF oil or Dex IID are history.
    Lucky common backward compatible fluid formulas can be used in our cars.

    Mobil 1 recommends and lists its Synthetic ATF product for, among others, Dextron II-D apps like for a 83-84 NWC T-5.
    At first was very hesitant to use full synthetic anything but have learned to trust the products.
    Here, been using synthetic Mobil 1 ATF or Valvoline regular/syn/blend Mercon in current two Ford 5 speeds since 1994.
    Both are healthy, as far as i can tell and feel, after combined 400 thousand miles of regular driving.
    Much newer oil or non-coolant fluid products have not hurt anything old here.
    The car had a RAD trans in it that only used GL-4 oil with the grade numbers. RAD 4 speed has bronze parts.

    http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm
    https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...synthetic-atf/
    Last edited by gr79; 01-11-2021 at 11:59 PM.

  24. #24
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    My 84 NWC T-5, used ATF. Ford went to ATF for fuel efficiency reasons. The T-5 has much tighter tolerances, so a thinner fluid was needed. I would never use 50 weight gear oil in a NWC T-5. Also the NWC T-5 doesn't have needle bearings on the gears that run on the out put shaft like the Wc T-5 does.
    Like everyone is saying, you need the older type ATF because it works with the brass syncro rings. The Wc transmissions have fiber lined blocker rings that need the newer ATF fluids.

  25. #25
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodon64 View Post
    My 84 NWC T-5, used ATF. Ford went to ATF for fuel efficiency reasons. The T-5 has much tighter tolerances, so a thinner fluid was needed. I would never use 50 weight gear oil in a NWC T-5. Also the NWC T-5 doesn't have needle bearings on the gears that run on the out put shaft like the Wc T-5 does.
    Like everyone is saying, you need the older type ATF because it works with the brass syncro rings. The Wc transmissions have fiber lined blocker rings that need the newer ATF fluids.
    Problem is what is the older ATF? They dont make it anymore and it's been replaced by different stuff a bunch of times. Then people argue over what's the right fluid to use and you cant get a straight answer. The only ATF that I know of that's for older fords and the stuff I used for my power steering is the type F
    Last edited by Sask84gt; 01-12-2021 at 05:49 PM.
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