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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default Manifold under passenger fender?

    Hey guys, just wondering if you can help identify this manifold under the passenger fender. Its connected to a rubber hose that goes into engine bay that was cut off by previous owner. Emissions related? Do I need it? I'm running my fuel hose through the same hole into engine bay and would love the extra room. Thanks
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    Mustangs
    84.5 Gt T-top
    85 Gt

  2. #2

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    Where do the vacuum lines on the other sides of the solenoids go?
    I'm guessing:
    TAD
    TAB
    CANP
    ?Self Destruct Module?








    Good Luck!
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  3. #3

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    Fwiw, if you don't have the CANP and manifold vacuum line hooked up, at least just open/vent that port on the canister.

    Also, I'm assuming that you don't have a smog pump installed? If you do have a smog pump installed, then imho you want the TAD and TAB to be working.


    Good Luck!

  4. #4

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    Those are the altitude compensation solenoids. Can ditch them if you like.
    Thomas

    1985 Mustang GT - Build Thread
    347 (Stock Block, Scat Crank & Rods, Probe Pistons, 10.5:1 CR, AFR 185's, PP Crosswind Intake, Custom-ground Comp Hyd Roller Cam, Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers, Holley 3310-4), T-5, 8.8 w/3.55's, MM SFC's, T/A, PHB, LCA's, Strut Tower Brace, K-Member Brace, Bilstein HD Struts/Shocks, MM/H&R Springs, SN95 5-Lug, Cobra Brakes, '04 Mach 1 Steering Rack

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 85MUSTANGTGT View Post
    Those are the altitude compensation solenoids. Can ditch them if you like.
    Ok thanks! So that whole manifold can come out or is it better to just leave it in and remove the hose that runs into engine bay?
    Mustangs
    84.5 Gt T-top
    85 Gt

  6. #6

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    Up to you. Mine is in a box on the garage shelf.

    Kind of a neat contraption really. Solenoid valves controlled by barometric pressure switches that open and close with significant changes in elevation to maintain air/fuel ratio. My car doesn't see much elevation change, so didn't get reinstalled.
    Thomas

    1985 Mustang GT - Build Thread
    347 (Stock Block, Scat Crank & Rods, Probe Pistons, 10.5:1 CR, AFR 185's, PP Crosswind Intake, Custom-ground Comp Hyd Roller Cam, Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers, Holley 3310-4), T-5, 8.8 w/3.55's, MM SFC's, T/A, PHB, LCA's, Strut Tower Brace, K-Member Brace, Bilstein HD Struts/Shocks, MM/H&R Springs, SN95 5-Lug, Cobra Brakes, '04 Mach 1 Steering Rack

  7. #7
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 85MUSTANGTGT View Post
    Up to you. Mine is in a box on the garage shelf.

    Kind of a neat contraption really. Solenoid valves controlled by barometric pressure switches that open and close with significant changes in elevation to maintain air/fuel ratio. My car doesn't see much elevation change, so didn't get reinstalled.
    Ok, well if it's not to difficult to rip it I will go that route. Thanks for the help!
    Mustangs
    84.5 Gt T-top
    85 Gt

  8. #8

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    weight = lost performance. every bit helps and can make a difference.. lbs here lbs there, it all adds up!

    Keep it though because some day some one will pay good money as they do a nut&bolt resto..
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
    Albert Einstein

    1984 20th Anniversary GT350
    Almost "Stock"

  9. #9

    Default

    interesting, is that a california specific thing or is that also on other mustangs?
    1984.5 G.T.350 5.0 CFI AOD Convertible (TRX package, loaded)
    K&N filter in stock dual snorkel
    GT40 heads, Edelbrock 3721 intake, MSD 8456 Dist., MSD 8227 coil
    Comp cams XE254H, hypereutectic pistons
    Hooker Super Comp Shorty Equal Length Headers
    catted BBK H-pipe, full custom duals
    Maximum Motorsports caster/camber plates and strut tower brace, 3.73 rear.
    Ford Performance Springs, Firehawk A/S 225/55r16 on LMR TRX r390 wheels (street)
    Federal 595 rs-rr 245/40r17 and 255/40r17 on OE cobra r wheels (race)
    Everything else stock and fully functional.

  10. #10

    Default

    Not the expert, but going to say they're not California specific. I would guess all carburetor-equipped cars got the altitude compensation apparatus. My car had them and I'm of the inclination it's not a California-emissions car.
    Thomas

    1985 Mustang GT - Build Thread
    347 (Stock Block, Scat Crank & Rods, Probe Pistons, 10.5:1 CR, AFR 185's, PP Crosswind Intake, Custom-ground Comp Hyd Roller Cam, Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers, Holley 3310-4), T-5, 8.8 w/3.55's, MM SFC's, T/A, PHB, LCA's, Strut Tower Brace, K-Member Brace, Bilstein HD Struts/Shocks, MM/H&R Springs, SN95 5-Lug, Cobra Brakes, '04 Mach 1 Steering Rack

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 85MUSTANGTGT View Post
    Not the expert, but going to say they're not California specific. I would guess all carburetor-equipped cars got the altitude compensation apparatus. My car had them and I'm of the inclination it's not a California-emissions car.

    Colorado, California mainly. High Altitude areas and Cali.

    it's a Federal Emissions compliant version of the Hi Altitude Aneroid Bellows System.



    A rework of the 1972-1985 Motorcraft 2bbl 2150 system used on the 360 Jeep and Mexican Fox Mustang.

    Here is tcruise's 1983 Mexican Mustang 5.0/4-spd carb






    The round canister portion of the compensator has a aneroid bellows in it, basically a flexible container with a fixed amount of air pressure inside it that expands and contracts according to outside atmospheric pressure, exactly like a barometer. At higher altitude it will expand and push the brass "poppet valve" out, allowing air to bypass the carburetor venturi's, essentially leaning out the mixture as needed for higher altitude.

    Less oxygen in the air at high altitude needs less fuel for proper burn.

    On most non compensating carbs the main mixture is adjusted by changing main jet sizes, the idle mixture has to be adjusted separately. My Rambler calls for #55 jets at altitude and #57 at sea level.

    While main jets can be swapped in a 2150, adjusting the screw on the back of the compensator will adjust all mixtures of the carb. Idle, main, power mode, etc. Opening that poppet valve leans everything out.

    All I do to adjust the compensator is rev the engine up to cruising RPMs and turn the adjustment for highest engine vacuum and RPM, then fine tune later on if needed. I don't even mess with the main jets to change the main mixture. i haven't tried it yet, but I can imagine changing main jets could throw off the relationship between the main mixture and all the other calibrated mixtures of the carburetor.

    At sea level the compensator poppet valve should be completely closed and the engine should run at proper mixture. If not, then changing on carb main jets might be required. At my 7000 foot altitude, the valve is about 1/3 open.

    You don't touch the screw on the end. This is how you mess it up. It is set at the factory that made it and the only way to test is a vacuum chamber.

    As the barometric pressure gets lower, the valve opens to let air bypass the main bores. I know mine works because it will hold the same idle at 5000 ft and 12000 ft.

    To pass the Federal Emissions, the car is calibrated to its destination states average mean sea level using settings derived from a hyper barometric chamber, and the compensator is set to work at any level outside those areas using the four valves and a non return valve


    Quote Originally Posted by 85md View Post
    Anyone replace these? Confusing, number search on rock auto comes to a complete set, 4 metal cylinders (E4ZE9C915AA,) it is not listed for an 85. On the 85 GT, they show individual cylinders, not a complete set. The 4 cylinders have an electrical connection via a harness...

    anyone replace them? As a whole set? By the way, what is that black cylinder? What part replaces it? No number on it...








    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    Those have nothing to do with canister purge. Those are altitude compensation solenoids.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Sask84gt

    Ford typically punch out a lot of Silent Warrior electronics. The Distrovac Boss 302 and M code 351ho 4V Clevelands had a engine speed sensor in 1969.

    Crank position sensors for 1979-1983 V8 Feedback 5.0/5.8/6.6's,

    The hidden relays for the electronic fuel pump EECIV's,

    the Two Stage Accessory Drives,

    and through it all, the lack of proper data allows a lot of smack talk that will have you stripping crap off of your ride first chance.


    The Altitude Compensator Solenoids are the same. There were four solenoids, one electrically controlled, the other 3 slaves, manifolded via 90 degree joiners to a diode and one white purge valve restrictor. The four solenoid, 20 junction ACS fender unit is a simple work around to solve a problem.



    Ford were forced into this by Federal law.

    For 1984, it was tied into the three port TAB solenoid. This was a switch which cut out the TAB under WOT, and all '83 and '84 4V engines got it. The AC too was cut under WOT.

    By 1985, the five speed only 5.0 HO 4V engines, the TAB solenoid is controlled by the TSAD module, which used a gutted 60 pin EECIV controller called a Two Speed Accessory Drive, a transitional state accessory drive system that had a grey or red module reporting to it, and only Hi Altitude cars had the extra four solenoid, 20 junction ACS fender unit. California 1985 cars didn't have it .

    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    You're on the right track conceptually, but took a slight detour getting there.

    The descriptions of these systems can be somewhat confusing, having to do with the definition of 'above' and
    'below', when we're talking about negative pressures (aka 'vacuum'). Technically, 5 in/Hg vacuum is less negative
    than 10 in/Hg of vacuum. Kinda like how 4.10 gears are 'lower' than 3.55s...

    Operationally, it is as you say. At idle and light throttle openings, the TAD system is under control of EGR vacuum.
    But the TAD solenoid is energized in this mode. Both TAB and TAD solenoids are normally closed at rest, while the
    TAB vacuum switch is normally open at rest (atmospheric pressure).

    <edit>
    After further review, the '85 TAD solenoid is normally open, and the '85 TAD vacuum switch is normally closed.
    Apologies for the misinformation...
    </edit>

    At idle, EGR vacuum is weak, so the diverter valve sends air upstream to the exhaust ports. At light throttle openings,
    EGR vacuum is strong, and the air is sent downstream between the beds in the main catalyst. This reduces exhaust
    temperatures in the upstream light-off cats, while also maximizing NOx reduction.

    With heavier throttle openings, where manifold vacuum is 10 in/Hg or 'less', the vacuum switch opens, de-energizing
    the TAD solenoid. This blocks EGR vacuum, and vents the diverter valve, sending air upstream into the exhaust ports,
    until manifold vacuum drops low enough that the bypass valve opens and thermactor air is dumped to atmosphere.
    The TAD system works essentially the same for '83-'85 4V engines, the main difference being the '85 vacuum switch
    transfers at 6 in/Hg, vs 10 in/Hg.

    As an additional safeguard, the TAB solenoid is under control of the WOT switch on '83 and '84 4V engines. The TAB
    solenoid is de-energized at WOT, blocking manifold vacuum to the bypass valve. (For '85 4V engines, the TAB solenoid
    is controlled by the TSAD module, which does the same thing, but will also shut off the air supply during extended idle
    periods.)
    For 85's, the 4V HO is still an non feedback, non computer control engine, but its accessories are computer controlled in part.

    By these duffers.





























    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    Wiring diagrams are not proof
    of anything.

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Sask84gt, to meet federal emission's compliance, a lot of other systems were added. If you remove them, then you have other problems. So with 1979 to 1985 carb Fords, your gonna have to ask:-


    Well those drifter's days are past me now

    I've got so much more to think about

    Deadlines and commitments

    What to leave in, what to leave out


    Against the wind

    I'm still runnin' against the wind

    I'm older now but still runnin' against the wind


    Quote Originally Posted by brian.aughe View Post
    The true curse of modding a car,, is demodding it so you can get back to enjoying it.
    Very interested to see how your project works out.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F0 CBR View Post
    I see this thread and project is very similar to what I am working on.
    The fuel tank vent hose on my car has been left open and tucked into the fender ever since I pulled the 4 cyl turbo 28 years ago.
    It always smelled of gas and and if I plugged the vent hose it would develop an air lock and the engine would quit after a few miles.
    To make matters worse, I unknowing bought a marine carb at the local swap meet and have been using it for the same time period.
    The main difference with marine carb is there are no vacuum ports or spark ports, as boats rarely idle and the are rpms are fairly constant.
    Left picture below.


    The only port on it is above the choke plates at the very top - I've read it is to get plumbed to the fuel pump overflow on a boat to prevent spills.

    I am now putting in a charcoal canister and purge system, but do not have a spark port to plumb the to the purge valve pilot.
    The schematic below is the circuit I have come up with, I think in theory they work similar.




    The difference this will purge all of the time even at idle, when plumbed to the spark port, the purge valve only opens to purge the canister at part throttle.
    The temperature switch is to disable it when the engine is cold.
    I will let you know how it works after installed, i'm a little concerned about the constant vacuum leak at idle, might have to play with orifice sizes.

    Its amazing how we first spend all of our time and money making modifications, and later spend all of our time and money trying to put it back to original.
    Eventually I will get rid of this carb and put in an EFI Carb unit.

  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member Sask84gt's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for all the info everyone. As my car is not a daily driver and I could care less about emissions I'm removing whatever I can. Being new to these cars I'm not sure what I can get rid of and what has to stay lol
    Mustangs
    84.5 Gt T-top
    85 Gt

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