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Thread: Back in a 4 eye

  1. #1

    Default Back in a 4 eye

    Hey all. Long time Ford guy here. Recently picked up an 85 Capri after getting rid of my 1995 Mustang Cobra that I had owned since 2003. The car may be gone but the engine did not go with it. It is a mild 331 that pushed my Cobra to a best of 12.91@111.67 on a true street tire. It was going consistent 8.2x's@87 in the 1/8th when the head gasket let go and a total rebuild of the car started. That was 10 years ago. Deciding it was more project than I was ever going to finish at this time I am now in the Capri. It looked good upon first inspection but after getting it home and cleaned up I am now finding it is going to be just as big a project. Some how a fresh project has me less concerned about finishing it. Out of all the Fox cars I have had I have never owned a true Street/Strip car. So that is the direction I intend on taking with this one. In the few weeks I have had the Capri I am being quickly reminded on how much is different on them and needs to be upgraded. This site has already been a great help in figuring some things out. I am sure I will be relying on it more as things start to come together. Lets hope a 500ishlb weight reduction and a little more power will have me running low 11's and knocking on the door of 10's!

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Jdsgallops, welcome.


    The Fox 4 101.3 wheelbase chassis was the final work on the Fox and it had some element's of the bigger 104.2/105.5/108.4 inch wheel base S-shell, so heaps of parts cross-over. The huge weight reduction and 100.5" wheel base with reduced width make it dynamically different, but all the hard points except the IFS spindle offsets and the remount of the K member to firewall that 0.8" and some parts of trans length are different. But everything is pretty close.


    Notch and Fastback Foxes are the new 3 and 5 window Ford V8 Coupes.

    Perfect Hot Rods, that can additionally cope with Street and Strip duty. Or a ride to the club or cultural or weekend congregation.

    In terms of what needs updating, not that much to get a sub 11 second machine. Really, a good 420 to 450 hp will do it easily.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hissing Cobra View Post
    I've got a 347 in my '79 Cobra and it's got an Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake manifold, 1" spacer, Holley 650 double pumper carb and an aftermarket air cleaner with a 3" filter and if fits just fine. However, my hood has the factory cutout for the Turbo 4-cylinder and it fits underneath the '79-'82 hoodscoop without any issues.

    Pete

    1979 Mustang Cobra
    347/T-5/4.30's
    420 rwhp/380 rwt (New Motor)
    11.49 @ 121.86
    306/T-5/4.30's (Old Motor)
    307 rwhp/278 rwt
    12.38 @ 111.38


    1989 Mustang LX
    302/T-5/3.73's
    Daily Driver
    14.66 @ 95.63






    Bigger tires limit impact harshness, HissingCobra runs the air shock inserts, so he can keep the wheel arches off the tires when travelling four up for his 90 or was it 220 miles to the drag strip. I think things top out at 701 mm with the last Fox birds and 295/50 16's, or 27.6"

    Or unless you do this with some 28.5" tall slicks on a Fox Stang and Ja-kET.

    Like HissingCobra.


    The tire was the factory WS6 BE GoodRich TransAm Firebird tire option on the earlier wide wheels, my mate has them on the back of his 1980 TAFB 4.9 Turbo









    The last Fox birds had just enough room for a more drag type car

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...6-drag-radials








  3. #3
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    If you want to be sure of more.... Racerxmd's 'Red 85GT Build:- Engine!


    Quote Originally Posted by racerxmd View Post
    1.Pump Gas build with 11.25 to 1
    2. Heads were ported some by Duane Busch
    3. Heads flowed 390/290
    4. Duane upgraded to 1.710 exhaust valves
    5. Pro-Systems XC Dominator us a 1200cfm carb

    Patrick@ Pro-Systems thinks motor will make more like 850hp. Told me that Duane is known for making Big HP



    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0


  4. #4

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    My 331 was freshened after the blown head gasket. As it sat in the Cobra it ran a Cross Section Engineering custom spec cam and a stock Tmoss ported lower Cobra intake. The car weighed 3575 on the scales in Bradenton. Although the cam worked well on a Land and Sea dyno it showed peak power coming in at a paltry 5300rpm and 320hp at the wheels(350ish dynojet). Trap speed and weight put that at about 400 flywheel HP. The refresh has moved to a larger custom cam with a peak HP peak expected at 5700 and a Performer RPM 2 match ported intake. I am hoping that pushes me over 425hp. If that is not enough to get me there I always have that nitrous option. Which may be needed. As I learn more about the car, see how it was optioned from the factory, the more I want to keep it looking as it came from the factory interior and exterior wise. That means Medium Charcoal top Dark Charcoal bottom(It is currently white/black) and grey interior with the sport buckets. Either way it will be a far cry from my old 83GT which only ran a 13.5 with a really crappy setup.

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdsgallops View Post
    My 331 was freshened after the blown head gasket. As it sat in the Cobra it ran a Cross Section Engineering custom spec cam and a stock Tmoss ported lower Cobra intake. The car weighed 3575 on the scales in Bradenton. Although the cam worked well on a Land and Sea dyno it showed peak power coming in at a paltry 5300rpm and 320hp at the wheels(350ish dynojet). Trap speed and weight put that at about 400 flywheel HP. The refresh has moved to a larger custom cam with a peak HP peak expected at 5700 and a Performer RPM 2 match ported intake. I am hoping that pushes me over 425hp. If that is not enough to get me there I always have that nitrous option. Which may be needed. As I learn more about the car, see how it was optioned from the factory, the more I want to keep it looking as it came from the factory interior and exterior wise. That means Medium Charcoal top Dark Charcoal bottom(It is currently white/black) and grey interior with the sport buckets. Either way it will be a far cry from my old 83GT which only ran a 13.5 with a really crappy setup.
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...stang-GT-stock

    These are 10.5 second streeters with LMR Plug and Play so the wiring is all stock. You have a choice of stock 1986 or stock 1995 SN95 wiring. MS3 is getting a Traction Control interface.

    T-Moss the Stock intake, basically an upper and lower modification to the stock intake.

    add AFR 165's Painted Ford grey to look stock, and pop in a fully counterweighed stroker 347 crank and rods with Ed Curtis cam.

    One of the hard things is air flow management on the intake to preserve the 255 cfm per valve intake flow figures from the cold air intake right to the valves. So you have to cam it up, which might actually take the edge off the dangerously Verlie mid range.

    And some nice BBK style headers and exhaust.


    If its gonna be a keeper, the key part is making sure it has the slicks to hold the picks. Better rolling stock, stiffer chassis and an electronic stability program with SN 99 New Edge or SN95 ABS brakes is easy.

    Dashboards swap over, so does the SRS air bag.


    Patrick Olsen is a member here, Jack Hidley has some great ideas.

    http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...ad.php?t=25738

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    I love the concept of block protection by hurting the over 1.25 lb-ft per cube low end and mid range torque. With more cam, or a rising boost curve turbo or centrifugal Supercharger.

    Do I believe the HP Curse is real?

    https://www.fordmuscle.com/news/the-...rse-is-it-real

    Yes. But it depends on use. I've noted that in sedan racing, the early HP 230 J codes failed in hard competition in the 1968 Australian Falcon GT 302s, yet it won the teams prize for the 7000 mile London to Sydney Rallye. In the 1984-1987 seasons, all Group A 5.0 Mustangs in endurance races had an oil pressure and block cracking problem even at 320 to 390 hp. Yet the 289/302/5000 cc engines won Le Mans. The FE 427 was so much tougher than the stock block 302 though.

    If you keep the low to mid range punch out of cracking or windowing the block, and understand its kind of lie the old Cleveland 351 or FirePower 354/392 Hemi Downstairs, focusing of high end power that your not likely to use often on the street is a lot of fun.





    Unlike Brand C, winning Le Mans IMHO forced Ford to Pay the Rent by taking 65 pounds of iron out of every 302 since it was birthed as a Tunnel Port in 1968.

    It's never been a Steel Cranked, 249 Brinell hardness 69-70 Boss 302 Spec block,

    all OEM 8.2" blocks have been a Guilded Lillies since birth.


    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...st-your-Engine

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...build-question

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...e-Engine/page2



    I like a lot of stuff here. Like this


    Quote Originally Posted by rock4451 View Post
    *MODS, IF THIS IS MISPLACED, MY APOLOGIES*

    Hi gents!


    Took the old 302 to the dyno today since installing my most recent cam from Ed Curtis @ FTI.


    Just a little background on my previous setup - a previous cam from Ed (from an old combo with AFR 165 heads and a Cobra intake) with Trick Flow 190 11Rs, Holley SM2, 1-3/4 used MAC longtubes, summit universal 3" X-pipe. 4.10 gears, 80mm MAF and home-made 4 inch MAF. Even with the old mismatched cam, it put down 350/341 and ran 11.8 @ 116. Let me say from the get go, I made it clear that this car is driven a lot. It's no 500 mile/year show car or race car. It's made several trips across the midwest (I am near St. Louis) to Louisville, KY Des Moines, IA, it goes everywhere.



    Told Ed what I wanted - a cam to take advantage of the induction and exhaust system I am using, with a broad powerband, and I let him know I am not afraid to rev my stock bottom end to 6700ish, give or take.



    Below is the dyno sheet, I'm working on uploading the dyno video.




    https://youtu.be/lYU2KzQaW7c

    Don't mind the smoke in the video, just my 137k mile rear main seal that likes to make itself known when high RPMs are in order, spitting a little oil on my exhaust.

    Only difference between the setup I mentioned above (before cam) and new is a new electric water pump, and of course the cam. The powerband is broad and fun, I am already making 300 ft-lbs of torque before 3k RPM, and this dyno run was only done once because you could hear in person (and sort of see the mini-dip it takes in the graph right before 6430 which is where peak power is) that I am likely experiencing valve float - I am on the stock springs that came with the head, out of the box, and the air/fuel log on my dyno run shows the 2 banks differing quite a bit and jumping all over the graph after 6400 rpms.



    The heads are straight from the box 190 11Rs with 56cc chambers with no porting, and the lower intake of the SM2 essentially has light porting to help match the heads, and cleaned up casting flash in the upper. Also, when I say stock bottom end - I mean the oil pan has never even been off of the motor.



    This car was bought as a bone stock 86 GT, and I installed all parts myself. There is no weight intentionally taken out of the car (stuff like aluminum heads/radiator lost some, as well as smog removal), and it has power steering, A/C, power windows and locks - in other words, it is the definition of a street car and the manners reflect this as well. It's a 1.5 hour drive to and from the tuner, and it purred like a kitten smoothly at 2,000 rpms on the interstate to (yes, even untuned) and from the appointment. I repeatedly beat the piss out of it on the way home when I had stretches of open road, and it just begs for more!



    Can't wait to install a set of springs and go hunting for some 120mph trap speeds.

  7. #7

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    Ed knows his stuff but I really didn't like his snobby attitude. That is why I went with Buddy Rawls/Cross Section Engineering for my cam. Forget your theory about giving up low end and mid range torque. The old setup AVERAGED 333lb-ft and peaked at 363. It was fun when it had a street tire on it and would try to put the ass end out 45* shifting into 3rd. That cam however was suppose to make peak power at 5500. Which is why when the head gasket went it got upgraded. I told Buddy what I wanted and what he speced looks considerably larger on paper. That said everything I have researched says that high rpm and crank walk is what destroy's the bottom end. Build as much torque as you want just keep rpm in check. FWIW the original cam Buddy sent me is exactly the same as what Ed was selling at the time.

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Well done. Buddy is truly sensational. We had an Air Restricted conversation back in 2012 on FordSix. Boy did I learn a lot! About 1% of what he discussed, I think. And I'm probably boasting. EtyhlCat might say, oh, 0.01%. Lol...


    The matter about trans mission of power to the ground via a stock block and stock chassis is this. If you improve grip and chassis rigidity, then the stock block sustains a low level Saturn 5 style vibration that potentially shakes everything loose.


    The crank unbalance and exposure time and torque production certainly, eventually forces the stock iron block walls to become the yield point. It's a matter of degrees of exposure, nothing concrete, only that it is a risk. In theory, taking 500 pounds off the weight, and having it kangaroo around the North American Highway system is better than an SN95 stroker hooking up. That all is debatable.

    The crank walk matter, Ive discussed that with my Cleveland friends. Sounds plausible. I thank you for your input.



    Crank walk destroyed many SuperCharged development Essex 3.8 Liter T-bird SuperCoupes, and that was why the lads at Ford opted for the 5-speed Mazda Trans with center pilot slave cylinder.





    Enjoy the ride!

  9. #9

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    I have owned a SC. Loved the car and thought about getting back into one. However it spent more time getting fixed than actually driving. The biggest expense in that department was the engine just quiting while trying to merge onto the interstate one day. Towed it home and started diagnoses. Tried and tried to no avail. Finally pulled the engine and took it apart to find the crank in two pieces. Not only did crank walk kill these thing but so did poor machine work as the crank had been turned. One day I may own another!

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdsgallops View Post
    I have owned a SC. Loved the car and thought about getting back into one. However it spent more time getting fixed than actually driving. The biggest expense in that department was the engine just quiting while trying to merge onto the interstate one day. Towed it home and started diagnoses. Tried and tried to no avail. Finally pulled the engine and took it apart to find the crank in two pieces. Not only did crank walk kill these thing but so did poor machine work as the crank had been turned. One day I may own another!
    Its just four bearings, and it has Detriot Unbalance with a long crank snout, and Ford only added 10 pounds to the block casting. Most show bearing degradation on rods and the full grove main tops.

    I love the rear entry airflow system strategy, the by-pass, and if it was M112, I'd like it even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davedacarpainter View Post

    Since I was there I figured I might as well go ahead and pull the pistons since it would only take a couple minutes Attachment 116794

    This is the worst of the rod bearings, it's the number four piston rod.

    plstktnkr2 has done a 4.2 cranked SC3800 Swap. So too was Davedacarpainter



    Our ROBH'er (Royal Order of Box Heads) Davedacarpainter is working with the IRS at the moment.





    He was looking at a SC3800 conversion in page 38 of his 60 page build, but he's got another plan now.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post

    Hey, glad to see your back Dave. I see your attire has improved since last time.




    verses mopar shirt....



    ROBH'er rUUULLLLLLLLEEEEE!!!!

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