No start situation

[richpet]

Tried searching, no dice.

Installed a 302 in an 81 Granada. Using an HEI dizzy. Pic is of the selenoid. No power to start side of selenoid so starter won't crank. It was an original 4 speed car and that plug had a 4 wire connectors at the trans, currently not plugged in to anything.

Any thoughts?

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[KevinK]

I think you need a jumper at the firewall or the 4 speed.

[richpet]

At the plug down that used to plug in to the 4 speed trans? If so, which two wires?
Thanks!

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[richpet]

The little red wire that slips on the 's' terminal gets no power when I turn the key to start.
I have removed the factory duraspark stuff, but that shouldn't impact the starting/starter circuit, right?

I did start it old school style, by jumping the selenoid. I'd rather use the key...

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[massacre]

Not sure about the duraspark stuff
but there is a circuit that goes from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid as you have mentioned.
if you have no power there, I would start there and work my way back with a test light to the ign switch
I think it goes through a neutral safety switch
if you apply 12v to that terminal on the solenoid, the starter should engage

[richpet]

Yeah, I started it by jumping the selenoid terminals. I wish electrical stuff was more my forte sometimes.
It was a factory 4 speed car so I dont think there was a neutral safety switch, was there? Nothing near the pedal that I could find.
Unless that is two of the terminals I need to jump at the plug that used to plug in to the SROD which is gone.

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[massacre]

Well if the solenoid itself is working, and you have no power to the trigger wire, there has to be an open in that circuit somewhere between the ignition switch and the solenoid. I am not super familiar with the Grenada but I would suspect it has some type of switch at the clutch pedal.
I see now that you said the SROD wiring is gone, that might be the problem.
It looks like the trigger wire is red/light blue from the ignition switch to the solenoid.


I would start there and chase down where you need to jump this wire.
Good luck!

[richpet]

The SROD wire (from the car that plugged in to the trans) is still there, just hanging.
This Granada was an oddity as it came from the factory with a quadrant and not a direct pull clutch. When I was down there swapping it out I did not see anything that looked like a switch/wires near the pedal. But, I will look again.
It seems there is a big yellow wire that also goes from the key switch through the firewall.
Appreciate the diagram! I have not had a chance to look at it closely yet, but I was having trouble finding something on Google last night.

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[JKengineering]

I think the big yellow wire is for the rear window defogger.
Mike

[richpet]

This one?

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[KevinK]

If you jumper from the large battery terminal on the solenoid to the small terminal, it will crank. You still need power to the ignition or key on to run. Unfortunately the neutral start switch still needs to be jumpered, wire #32.

[richpet]

I did jump the terminals to start it (went from batt to start side directly).
If I am looking at that wiring right, it shows all the wires as r/lb (red and light blue I assume). It (the plug down under the car) does have four wires, but I think they're all different colors.
I was unaware that this year/model had a neutral safety switch.
If I apply logic (hopefully it doesn't garner me ridicule, but if it does, I'm used to it ) those four wires would apparently be:
One is ground
One is reverse lights
Two are for the neutral switch thing.

If I can figure which two are the nss, I should be able to jump them right at the plug. Then the reverse and ground can be spliced in to the T5 two-wire plug for back up lights.

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[massacre]

I think I may have started some confusion here, sorry about that.
i call it the neutral safety switch, but that is what it is called in automatic cars.
Stick cars usually have a switch at the clutch pedal to prevent the car from starting without the clutch pedal pushed in.

I call both of them neutral safety switches since they are essentially doing the same thing. But that is not entirely correct, so on a stick car maybe it’s called a clutch switch or start interrupt switch or something like that.

I just checked my stock automatic trans harness, it also has 4 wires. I know that when I was testing those circuits with a power probe, when I applied 12v to one of those terminals, it engaged the starter solenoid. I don’t recall which wire, and the starter solenoid has been removed from the car though.

[massacre]

That yellow wire on my car goes from the always hot terminal on the starter solenoid, through the firewall and then splits into yellow wire, and grey/yellow wire. Grey/yellow wire ends up in the trunk, for the rear window diece or defroster. Yellow continues across upper dashboard and goes to fuse box I think

[massacre]

If there is a red and light blue wire in your 4 terminal connector, I bet if you send 12v at it might start.

[Jerry peachuer]

There's the plug on driver side of trans that you have to jump to bypass and the car will crank with the key
When i put my new engine in i had this same no start issue.. when i jumped it the back up lights would stay on
Theres 4 wires but you only jump 2

One of the wires on the plug is a loop which makes it confusing some

I bought a harness from fep member because mine was crushed

[richpet]

I just have to figure out which two to jump/splice together. Will have to get under the car this weekend and check wire colors.
I tried jumping with a test light as a probe but may not have hit the right combination.
And I might have used one for 120v which might not work...

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[massacre]

I have not had good luck using a test light as a jumper, even a 12V test light.
Use the test light to see which terminal has power. That will at least narrow it down.

[richpet]

It will only have power with the key in the start position I assume.
I can ground to the frame/body to find it I would guess.
I will just be sure to leave the cable to the starter disconnected.

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[massacre]

Yes power with key in start position.
I would try and get ground for the test light on an existing factory ground if possible
you can leave that starter cable disconnected, you will hear the solenoid click and then you will know

[richpet]

Exactly what I was thinking. As far as hearing the click. I have a heavy ground to both the engine and the body.

Appreciate the guidance. This group of folks had always been excellent!

Supposed to dump rain the next day or so (I don't have a garage) so it will be at least Sunday before I can check that plug/wires. Gotta love that the rain runs IN to my carport...

I didn't seem to have much luck probing so I may cut the plug off to have good wire access. It's not like I have anything to plug it in to...

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[4eyedblind]

The big yellow wire IS rear deice, no question. No power to the S terminal will definitely create a no start. It's kind of a way to theft proof the car if it sits. That points to the ignition switch first, as that's where the signal comes from.

The clutch interlock, (at least on foxes) doesn't do anything to the ECM or starter system. Most jump around it when the switch fails. I just eliminated the whole thing since I was making SEFI stand alone, as much as possible and it's just a tack-on, not an integrated system.

[Jerry peachuer]

For what it's worth you can pull the harness up through the trans tunnel and I used house wire to jump the plug and I also had the pedal switch jumped as well

It was just to diagnose the no start mine was all factory but my hard shell was crushed and If I recall it was 3 wires connecting to 4 pin hardshell

[Jerry peachuer]

Stick with it its a odd circuit my father in law got it to work for me I had just rebuilt engine and trans and was running driving car prior to the new driveline swap and after paint was a no start

Ignition switch was a known problem but being my hardshell was broken somehow and wasn't much of a one directional connector just loose wires made it fun

Its only 4 wires with 1 wire looped possibly for manual/auto options

[richpet]

Hopefully I'll get under there tomorrow or Monday. On vacation through Tuesday.

Hadn't thought about pulling the wires in to the cabin. Cut off the plug and then I can do it all from in the car and not under it. Find the wires (hopefully) to jump which (hopefully) solves the issue, wrap them good and leave them tucked under the carpet where they won't be trod upon.

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