Close



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 48

Thread: EECIV gurus?

  1. #1

    Default EECIV gurus?

    Guys,

    I'm at a loss.

    88 powertrain and Engine/ECM wiring, 86 car.

    Car runs, starts and drives around fine. Just won't rev over 4K or at high loads where it breaks up really bad. I changed to TW heads and ported Exploder intake recently and it still does it.

    Been through codes and nothing there but the stuff for all the missing emissions crap like EGR, EVAP, TAB TAD. O2s are there, new and working. Basically the EEC is set up to run stand alone. No clutch interlock or other body harness stuff.

    Obviously checked the coil and dizzy and it's sparking on both. New cap/rotor. Wires are old Ford motorsport 8mm but pass the 1000 ohm/foot test. Fuel pump, filter and pressure all look good. Cleaned stock injectors and rails out when I had it apart and verified they all work. TPS tested out ok but, I'm putting a new one anyway next week.

    No tuning makes any difference, even adding large amounts of fuel or pulling fuel doesn't seem to affect it, so, I'm ruling it out a tuning issue. Especially since it was similarly flat and powerless with the stock E7s.

    The only thing that's kinda weird about the install is, when I put it in, I couldn't get 12v to the start signal on the TFI so, in the spirit of don't get it right, get it going, I tapped into a switched 12v power hooked that up to the start input on the TFI and put a momentary switch under the dash so I can send 12v to the TFI at startup and then cut it when the engine fires. That seems to work fine. I did temporarily supply straight switched 12v to this and, the fuel pump prime cycle stopped happening but the car would still start and run. I put it back to momentary and the prime cycle returned.

    My question is: Is there anything about what I did to get the TFI to work that will produce an unexpected problem and cause this stuttering and breakup? The EFI doesn't seem very smart on these things. This kind of stuff happens when you get your parts from Junkyard Inc. but, I'd like to solve it.

    Thanks for any feedback....
    Last edited by 4eyedblind; 09-25-2020 at 08:26 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Iím no expert but two things come to mind.

    First, is the spout connector plugged in? I had one with a broken plug and the spout connector fell out and the car wouldnít make it up a hill.

    Second, whatís the computer out of? A friend in high school swapped the driveline out of a short school bus in to his car and it had a 4K rev limiter and a 65mph speed limiter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AldeanFan View Post
    Iím no expert but two things come to mind.

    First, is the spout connector plugged in? I had one with a broken plug and the spout connector fell out and the car wouldnít make it up a hill.

    Second, whatís the computer out of? A friend in high school swapped the driveline out of a short school bus in to his car and it had a 4K rev limiter and a 65mph speed limiter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It picks up rpm a touch when I plug it and drops it when I pull it out so, I'd say that system is working.

    It's a DA1 SD computer, 1988. All wiring and comp came from a donor so it is a matched set.

  4. #4

    Default

    I started the car this morning and pulled plug wires. Fat sparks that jump a 2" gap to the plug head or header and a little rpm drop when I disconnect each one. This tells me ignition isn't the problem here. Only electrocuted myself a couple times, lol....

    I'm thinking gear wear perhaps? How much rotor movement rotationally is acceptable here? I can turn the rotor maybe 1 or 2 degrees, very little, when it's stationary.
    Last edited by 4eyedblind; 09-26-2020 at 10:54 AM.

  5. #5

    Default

    It sounds like a timing problem to me.
    Are you sure the distributor hold down is holding tight?
    I had too long of a bolt for my hood down and it was turning and pulling timing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6

    Default

    You have trick flow heads and an explorer intake and stock 19lb injectors? Do you have any kind of tuning device for the ecu, like a moates, anderson pms, or tweecer? The stock speed density has no ability to compensate for the changes you made. Those trick flow heads and that intake flow considerably more than the stock stuff and the computer and injectors cannot supply enough fuel.
    1979 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
    Modified Mustangs Aug, 2006 Feature Car

    2015 F150 2.7 Ecoboost

  7. #7

    Default

    Yes, I have a Crane Interceptor 2, from back in the day. It's the granddaddy of the Anderson PMS. It works and is capable enough for this. I have played around with fueling, to no effect, which led me back to the ignition system, which I can find zero fault with. It feels like a hard miss, not like fueling, which generally feels like the car laying over softly.

    The hold down and bolt are the stock Ford stuff I recognize from my old 88. The dizzy never moves or is in a different position when I look underhood.

  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    514

    Default

    Probably not your specific problem, but I am reminded of a drivability on my brother in law's truck about 20 years ago. Started up and idled fine. Drove fine, but when you punched it it would buck and sputter all over the place really badly and wouldn't rev above a certain RPM like it hit a rev limiter. No codes, no nothing. Went through the ignition and everything checked out fine. After banging my head against the wall it dawned on me. Changed the fuel filter and all was well. I know you said the fuel filter looked good, but how old is it? Can you hook up a fuel pressure gauge and see what it is doing when it breaks up or were you just looking at fuel pressure at idle?

    Other thought is it could be an exhaust restriction somewhere.
    '89 XR-7 5 Speed
    '95 SC 5 Speed
    '91 Crown Vic P72 351W
    '97 Thunderbird
    '85 Ford LTD Squire

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    EECIV speed density is designed to run at exactly 39 to 42 psi. The Ask Bernie MM &FF FPR mod was a way of mechanically (by physically punching in the stock Ford FPR) dialing in feed psi to the raise the fuel pressure level above 42.

    37 to 45 minute mark on the video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=HW-QM9mFXPo


    Try that. Uncle Tonys Garage video with Eric, Rev Evan and the old Muscle Mustangs and Fast Ford guys at Englishtown Raceway Park drag strip.

    The Speed Density doesnt trip codes always. Ford were learning a heck of a lot in such a short time.

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Ask Bernie from MM&FF

    28.09 to 45 minutes. The Speed Density fuel pressure loss issues.

    Hope this helps you man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=HW-QM9mFXPo

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedblind View Post
    Yes, I have a Crane Interceptor 2, from back in the day. It's the granddaddy of the Anderson PMS. It works and is capable enough for this. I have played around with fueling, to no effect, which led me back to the ignition system, which I can find zero fault with. It feels like a hard miss, not like fueling, which generally feels like the car laying over softly.

    The hold down and bolt are the stock Ford stuff I recognize from my old 88. The dizzy never moves or is in a different position when I look underhood.
    Do you have a wide band to confirm? I have a holley sniper on my car, so I am familiar with tuning and it still sounds like your engine is leaning out to me.

    If you're stuck on ignition, years ago I had speed density out of an 88, and I had an issue where my ignition would randomly break up at various rpms depending on temperature, and after replacing every part of the ignition including upgrading to mass air, it ended up being a bad PIP in the autozone distributor I had.
    1979 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
    Modified Mustangs Aug, 2006 Feature Car

    2015 F150 2.7 Ecoboost

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Im thinking PIP too, but check fuel pressure first. Dual Synch ( fuel squencer and ignition timing) aftermarket, not as good as OEM.

    But OEM can go bad.

    Its the ECMs inability to be fed the right signal that cuts spark. Not fuel.

  13. #13
    FEP Power Member qikgts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rockledge, FL
    Posts
    1,141

    Default

    Has the EEC case been opened up to check for bad caps/board/trace damage?
    '85 GT

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Any change of range on the rev range effects the MNPIP8 command and collapses spark.

    Stock 6504 or 25000 works, 7000 doesn't.

    Its a value thing, and it may induce that runtime error because the ECM cannot cope with running in circles.

    In post 33 and 34, the PIP signal gets a runtime error in certain situatutions.

    Check fuel pressure, but I think its a PIP matter. And it might be that programming quirk caused by an "out of range" value

    See

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ew-Heads/page2

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    4,367

    Default

    Had a problem once like that with my 79 carbed engine. No code stuff.
    Turned out to be the dist pickup coil wires inside the dist. They get old.
    The ones that connect to the ignition box connector outside the dist.
    The advance plate cycled so many times, it damaged the pickup coil wires inside right where they exited the dist.
    Plate advanced, wires moved, shorted out to the dist housing or something when plate advanced. OK when driving low rpm.
    Prob took the combo of centrifugal and vac advance to move the plate far enough to mess up.
    One or the other by itself did not move the plate enough into the 'shorting' zone.
    New reman dist cured it. Easier than changing out the pickup assy on the advance plate.
    Just sayin...
    My car has manual choke. If left on too long once engine warms up a bit, goes flat when accelerating normally but runs fine driven easy.
    Push in the choke, engine clears in a few seconds and takes off.
    Could check spark plugs to see how they look. AFR gauge may help diagnose.

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Fuel clip or the Keep Alive Memory fudge factors are able to cope with a 55 psi pressure. Its more of less self correcting, I'm sure you know the drill.

    It gives more electronic head room. 21 pound injectors also work okay if you have more air flow and Volumetric Efficiency than stock.

    Going back, I'm thinking why the loss of 12V signal from the TFi. Over time and heat cycles, or from crud, the Profiled PIP sometimes looses its ability to trigger.

    Fuel and spark checks.

    A new hall sensor, that would be a good start.

  17. #17

    Default

    Had the same problem on my sons 86GT

    it was a piece of crap MSD rotor in the distributor! Toss it!

    lift the cap and inspect it. Is the wear pattern circular or oblong?

    Get a Motorcraft cap and rotor

    I have 1/2 million miles and I run 99% original ford ignition parts right down to the 1986 Ford plug wires. E6 heads with the bumps removed, 65MM TB, Typhoon intake, B302 cam, headers, X3Z, 24 lb injectors, etc. My car pulls past 6000. With an A9L and a lot of magazine oriented bull**** it ran poorly by comparison but pulled past 6150. Iím working on finding the missing power I had before now

    it will drag a lot of cars with a lot more parts down the 1320. 0-60 is 4.5 seconds, etc.

    Donít loose site of what stock parts can do

    Good luck
    Last edited by erratic50; 09-27-2020 at 11:58 PM.

  18. #18

    Default

    Fuel filter and pump replaced a couple years ago...sat on jackstands for 11 months recently so, I'm sure it's still ok

    No wideband even existed when the Interceptor 2 was made so, no wideband. I'd love to go Terminator X but, I don't want to just throw parts at the thing.

    Fuel pressure is in range but, I do remember the crushing of the reg thing. Hilarious stuff from back in the day.

    This is an oe ford dizzy, pattern appears good, the shaft is tight. PIP was an early thought for me too. Cap and rotor have been changed twice, with quality aftermarket stuff. Wires pass the ohm test (1980s for 8mm Motorsport).
    Last edited by 4eyedblind; 09-28-2020 at 05:50 PM.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedblind View Post
    Fuel filter and pump replaced a couple years ago...sat on jackstands for 11 months recently so, I'm sure it's still ok

    No wideband even existed when the Interceptor 2 was made so, no wideband. I'd love to go Terminator X but, I don't want to just throw parts at the thing.

    Fuel pressure is in range but, I do remember the crushing of the reg thing. Hilarious stuff from back in the day.

    This is an oe ford dizzy, pattern appears good, the shaft is tight. PIP was an early thought for me too. Cap and rotor have been changed twice, with quality aftermarket stuff. Wires pass the ohm test (1980s for 8mm Motorsport).

    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    Has the EEC case been opened up to check for bad caps/board/trace damage?
    Keep at it brother, some gold plated interconnect might be givin' you some fluff or noise, EECIV is a 8itch...see 0 to 9 minutes.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RCdRKkt4ds

    US EECIV EFI engineers Jim Coates and Bob Stelmezzak

  20. #20

    Default

    Great video, thanks for posting
    79 Zephyr, 4v/4r70w swap planned, with team z front and rear suspension, 8.8 and upgraded brakes and coil overs.

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by massacre View Post
    Great video, thanks for posting

    Just Some encouragement for those coping with EMF, Wires Prox sensors and Power Spectral Density


    https://youtu.be/EvYVRv7SQiI


    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by NAVYCAT View Post
    Well for weeks I have been trying to get my Capri to run better, check settings, change some parts and I just couldn't get it to run over 2500rpm. It would just lay over and the rpm's would drop. So I removed the injectors and took them to get pro cleaned from R.C. engineering (yes that R.C.) look at the before and after tests, and oh I replaced all the plugs today and they were all having signs of lean on them

  22. #22

    Default

    TPS ain't it....just replaced it and it's the same. Board looks good considering it's a million mile junkyard EEC. Maybe I should just punch in the set of 24s I have sitting around here.....

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedblind View Post
    TPS ain't it....just replaced it and it's the same. Maybe I should just punch in the set of 24s I have sitting around here.....

    Yep, although 21s in good shape will be perfect.

  24. #24

    Default

    Damn...when engineers were real engineers.....

    I can pull in the 24s a bit. The airflow demands are fairly high with this setup. Not nuts but, it's ported GT40 style intake manifold, 1.7 rollers, decently big heads and really free flowing exhaust.

    I did flow the 19s on a injector tester. They had the usual ****ty pattern you get with pintle types but, they all worked and delivered similar volume.
    Last edited by 4eyedblind; 09-29-2020 at 07:30 PM.

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    ok then, I think that's your problem for sure....Go 24's!.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •