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  1. #26

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    The dealer did not submit the order to the Central Office with Recaro seating. The factory did not build the car with Recaro seating. If that seating was "optional" and the car was built that way the door tag would have INT TRIM code UA instead of PA. I can accept that the selling dealer may have changed the front seats out once they had the car in their possession, because maybe that's what a paying customer wanted. But that is NOT "all original" or "not one change has been made from the factory".
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  2. #27
    FEP Member 0F0 CBR's Avatar
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    Awesome debate, any chance the carpet on the drivers side can be pulled back to see if there is a build sheet? I am sure it will match the door tag, but there is a "Remarks" section at the bottom. FoxChassis have you ever seen any deviations in this section?

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  3. #28

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    Yes, deviations from regular production would be indicated in the "remarks" section on the build sheet and the car would have been a 'special order'. This car was not a special order.

    The build sheet or a deluxe Marti report would indicate what type of order it was. The two most common were retail and (dealer) stock.
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  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    I'm going to weigh in, not as a fox chassis expert but as a lifelong dealership tech. I have swapped interior parts at every brand of dealer I have worked at. Money is king, no matter what. I have swapped complete interiors, dash to door panels, headliner to carpet in some cars if the interior colour isn't available with a particular paint code. I believe gr79 is right. There is no update required to the vin if you do it. BMW is the only company I have worked for that would note the changes. We have to program into the car what we changed so there are no warranty payment or order issues when something inevitably goes wrong. I don't know how this effects the value of the cobra but when I interior swapped 2 bmw 750i's we sold the doner as "special". Hope this helps

    Sent from my SM-A705W using Tapatalk
    While the Recaro seat option was only $531.00 on the 1979 Pace Car, the replacement cost (limited availability) , at dealer cost, was almost $1,300, with a pair selling over the counter for around $2,200 with some slight discount. In this cars case, it is highly unlikely a dealer pulled a set out of a Pace Car (most Pace Cars were on the showroom floor for advertising purposes until sold) sitting in a prominent place on the showroom, or just outside the front of the showroom, and ordered a replacement set. The additional requested pictures will tell the tale as far as reported mileage. Same goes for the 82 GT.....Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof in order to substantiate what the OP has posted to date.

    Bill S.

  5. #30

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    Recaro seating was a standard item that was included with the cost of the Pace Car package. It was not an option and it did not have an additional line item charge.

    I am looking at a July 4, 1979-dated '1979 Ford Division New Model Car - Suggested Retail Prices' book right now. The book is dated roughly one month before the 1979 model year ended and it is dated after this car for sale was produced. There is NO listing for Recaro High Back Bucket Seat option in that book. I am also looking at a January 2, 1980-dated book right now. That is roughly the mid-point of the 1980 model year. There is a Recaro High Back Buck Seat option listed in that book, for an MSRP of $531.00. (That option is for all seating, not just one front seat.)
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  6. #31
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Really only two ways that car could have the seats after being built with low backs.
    Came from another car, or ordered thru parts.
    531 mspr gives credit for std seats. 1200 would be parts price, no trade in value.
    Dealer could order the Recardo seat set, swap, charge customer parts + labor- some trade in value for the low backs.
    Add the cost to the car's bank loan or customer charge card.
    Someone may have had deep pockets and paid the price for seat change out. Like said cash is king.
    Or the Cobra got a Recaro set collecting dust in parts, uc, body shop. They wanted to get rid of them. Missorder, cancelled, whatever.

    If seats were changed out at the dealer back then and now, the service record on file would have the RO copy for the work.
    Those records were not saved on computer back then and long gone. Kept all my copies.

    Dealer employees on occasion have access to take off parts and they use them in their cars. Usually mechanics, body shop, used car.
    Sheet metal? Say a 1/4 panel. They cut and use only what is needed and throw the rest of it in scrap hopper.

    One time dealer ordered the wrong color factory pinstripe for my Ranger. They reordered the correct one.
    Big roll to do the whole truck. Only did the door. Asked if i could have the rest of the roll. Nope. Someone got it.
    Dealers here in Detroit usually would have had several PC cars on hand. Smaller town prob none.
    One on display on floor, one outside to drive. The demo. Dealer said my Cobra was one (a demo).
    Option to buy demo discounted as used, pick another new from dealer stock (or another dealer), or order new one.

    Wonder if the seat nuts or rear seat bolts have wrench scratches on them?
    OE, original, could mean simply has correct Recaro seats installed, or really came with car at purchase, source unknown.
    Last edited by gr79; 08-27-2020 at 03:02 PM.

  7. #32

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    I’m going to say this only once and then I don’t want to discuss the seats any further. I have worked at dealerships for many many years. It is not uncommon for the wrong wheels to come on a car and it not be noted on the window sticker. I had a Ram 1500 Big Horn come in with Laramie seats before. I’ve seen Jeeps come in with hard tops that were not supposed to be. I don’t know what happened in this case but I can tell you the seats came with the car. Thanks. I will send pictures of everything this weekend odometer, dash, and underbody. If there is anything else you guys would need to see the validity of this car let me know. I did yesterday order a DELUX Marti report and original window sticker. That will not come for 6-8 weeks I guess. It was $146 dollars. Sorry for any confusion or frustration.

  8. #33
    Venomous Moderator Hissing Cobra's Avatar
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    Mick's right on this. He's been researching and compiling records on these cars for over 20 years. As for the car possibly having them due to a late production date, I'm not buying it. The seats made their debut on the mid year Pace Cars only.

    I will also say that those seats are too nice to be "original" 1979 seats. There's no way that the material would be that clean and nice for 41 years old, especially when the hood decal and Red/White/Blue hues in the horse emblem have virtually disappeared from the elements. Further proof that they're not original to the car. Also, the lower door handle bezels on the inside of the doors should have chrome trim and the steering wheel appears to be leather. Mick, were leather steering wheels available in '79? To me, it looks like it could be a Ford Grenada/LTD type wheel.
    Last edited by Hissing Cobra; 08-27-2020 at 05:22 PM.
    Pete Slaney

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  9. #34

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    this is the car the way it was when I brought it home. As you can see I’ve done a lot of work to it just cleaning it up. The Odom now says now closer to 10500. Again I will post more this weekend once I have it uncovered

  10. #35

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    I also love how the “experts” on this site just try to bring people down. As for the seats being “too nice” it’s called patience and a baby toothbrush. And there is no hood emblem. But there will be once I find one. You don’t have to hate on people to make yourself feel better. Jeeze people if your not interested in the car shut up. If you want to give me help pricing the car or are willing to help me with how far I should go with the restoration I’m all ears. But dang man if your just going to run your mouth and call me a liar or, hint at it,or call me a cheat go pound sand and get off this thread. Just saying. Bill S. I agree this car needs more pictures to prove or disprove any claim. I will post what I have Saturday or Sunday. I don’t know much about these models I got on this forum for help or advice. If I’m asking WAY to much just say so my original post says I would like help. The car is original the best I can tell. If you don’t believe it thats fine. I don’t hate you. I will also try to pull up the carpet and look for a build sheet. There was something in the back by the “original” spare tire in a white bag of sorts could that be it?

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hissing Cobra View Post
    Mick, were leather steering wheels available in '79? To me, it looks like it could be a Ford Grenada/LTD type wheel.
    Yes, a 'Leather Wrapped Sport Steering Wheel' was optional in the 1979 model year. But that is not a "Sport" steering wheel. That is a 'deluxe' steering wheel that came with cruise or tilt options. (Cruise and tilt were not available together in 1979.) Looks like this car has tilt. That wrap also looks aftermarket.
    Last edited by FoxChassis; 08-27-2020 at 06:30 PM.
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  12. #37
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    When I build a car for someone, I always ask the same 3 questions. What is the maximum amount of money you will spend on the car. This question is the most important. To clarify, what dollar value ceiling will you set as a maximum until you walk away from the car? This isn't how much you have now, or how much you will invest in the first year. This is to cover when things go sideways, or you buy every accessory Ebay has to offer before the car is finished. This is the leading cause of stalled projects. It can be more than the car is worth, but you have to love the car. Watch car "resto" shows and Barret Jackson to see what I mean. This amount ensures the right things are fixed in the right order. Second question, What are your expectations for the build and the finished product? People are unrealistic at best. They will spend stupid money trying to recapture a feeling. But since you are there why not upgrade?....If you want a proper restoration, that is fine. Just don't expect it to be like a modern car. This is where basket case cars are an issue. You are lucky in that respect, you have a baseline. This question is subtle, with many levels and it is easy to get sidetracked. Buy a binder, put in folders with whatever documentation you have for the car. Then plan out exactly what you want the car to be. Research, plan and price.. The last question is how long are you willing to wait before the car is finished? This is almost as important as question 1. Again, you are lucky. Plan your time wisely, build the car in stages. Complete a task as much as possible before moving on. You will find parts out of order as they become available. Buy big plastic bins and label them with an updated content list. It is so easy to spend time on the wrong thing, and then feel like you are not making progress. I realize this all seems stupid and basic to say but every car I have built for others have run afoul of at least one of these questions. It can sour the whole experience. As far as your cars go, I don't care if the seats are original to the car. Realize, no one is hating on you or the car. Yes they are being blunt. This is a favour to you oddly enough. If someone wants to believe something, especially if it is a plausible story they will resist the facts. You cannot prove the seats were in the car when it was built. Therefore, they are only an interesting anecdote to the car and should be presented as such. I joined this forum for the vast knowledge that is at our disposal. Even if I don't like the delivery sometimes. These people are passionate about an old, massed produced car that the majority have forgotten about. Revel in it. Yes, I am very long winded..... if I was in your position, I would keep the Cobra. Restore it with some upgrades. Trx copy wheels, good bushings and shocks. Maybe lower it, but not more than an inch. The best brakes I could put on it. Restore the body to stock. I would pull the engine and at minimum, regasket it. If I did any internal work I would port it and use the 82 gt cam. I would sell the 82 gt. Unless you want to keep both. Just remember it splits the driving between both. Twice the money for similar experience. I hope this helps. I'm Gunna shut up now

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  13. #38

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    Thank you that is the kind of stuff I’m on here for. If the car is not desirable fine. I don’t know what it’s worth. All I know is I’ve seen 79 cobras with 140000 mile sell for 5-6000 so I put it up for what I thought it was worth. I probably will not pull the motor But will have it gone through by a mechanic I know. I do not plan on putting a new graphic on the hood. Probably like something similar to a black vinyl GT stipe from like 83 or 84 can’t really remember. I do like the look of the black side louvres and was toying with painting them. As for the interior going to leave it alone for the most part. I saw an LED light kit from LMR that was reasonable. So far everything has been really fun to work on. Believe it or not I want to pay the $1500 to Coker Tires for the TRX wheels but I dunno. I will just leave it for sale and if someone wants to offer me something for it great. If not I have a free place to store it for the foreseeable future. Maybe when I’m dead and gone my kids will have something worth more. I appreciate the advice I really do. Any other thought on what to do or how much it’s worth would be greatly appreciated.

  14. #39
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    I find this seat scenario interesting...no need for anyone to get upset over it. But I'm really curious here. Could the 82gt have come with Racaros and the original owner swapped them into the cobra? If the 82gt has black interior, I'd be checking the buck tag. I love a good mystery lol
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  15. #40
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    I cannot help you with worth. I live in Canada, cars like that command good prices because most of our mustang's have been recycled by now. You could ish get your $12500 but in Canadian dollars.... Just to clear this up, the car is highly desirable. That is why people are hung up on the seats. It is worth more than the 82 GT. However, only to someone who wants one. Buy the cobra hood decal. It is worth more with it. You can buy the Cobra decal kit, comes with the door decals too. Mark down where the decals were and buff the paint evenly before you apply new. Keep as many original parts on the car as possible while making it reliable and safe. Change all fluids. Steam clean the seats. Not shampooing. It is the best way to remove stains without damaging the fabric. Replace the hood emblem with the tri bar it came with. Not the gt black one. You will have to wait to sell it. It won't sell fast at a premium. The questions I ask are doubly important for a car you are trying to flip. As I said..... I would keep it, sell the other two and use some of the money to fix this. One last thing, if it truly is a survivor, its custodian ( not owner ) is duty bound to it and all who love them to keep it as original as possible. You should check out some of the build threads on this forum. They are amazing. My personal favorite is 82gtforme and his Tangerine 79 notch.

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  16. #41

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    For 1982 Recaro seating was code "T_" on the door tag, owner card, and build sheet.
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  17. #42

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    I'd like to see shots of the flat tires on the car as well. As detailed as you can get, whether they hold air or not.
    Same with the TRX rims when you pull them off, I'd like to see shots of the back side of them.

    Thanks

    Bill S.

  18. #43

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    If you have legitimate sub 11k mile cars there, get them up to snuff mechanically using nos, and motorcraft parts wherever possible and preserve everything as is.

    Yeah, yeah...your car do as you please but, money follows originality.

  19. #44
    FEP Senior Member Sellis1012's Avatar
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    PM sent.
    83 Mercury Capri RS, 91 Mustang Gt 'vert, 04 CO Mach 1

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  21. #46
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Davesgro,

    First that is an awesome survivor Cobra you have and ultimately should be worth a decent amount of money. What the car is truly worth and will sell for is hard to say as there are not many in that condition today and they don't change hands on a regular basis. The color and the uniqueness of the Cobra may limit your audience, but can also affect the final sales price either way.

    As a long time member and moderator here on FEP, I will tell you that no one is hating on you nor your car. FoxChassis is a great guy and very knowledgeable. I will be honest that he schools me quite often in regards to items such as this and as of yet, I don't believe he has had bad information to date. Sometimes he is direct and blunt, but that is not trying to be mean, that is just his delivery. If the Recaros are original to the car that would make it very unique and add to it's value. The only way to prove this at this point in time would be the Marti Report that you have ordered. I doubt that they are, but odd ball stuff does happen from time to time.

    As far as busting your chops on this it has to do with many people today advertising "All Original" cars that are far from all original. Sure free speech and all, but most of us believe that is misrepresenting the vehicle and hurts the values of our beloved Foxes in turn. Obviously your car is an awesome Time Capsule and to be proud of as it sits. You have done some really nice work to bring it back to it's form glory and if you choose to sell, I am sure you will be rewarded with a sweet profit. For maximum value to true enthusiasts for a vehicle like this I would recommend gathering as much documentation you can find to prove all you can in regards to mileage, equipment, etc. The more documentation you can provide the stronger your case for any asking price. We all wish you the best in your journey with the Cobra and we do appreciate you sharing it with us here at FEP.
    ​Trey

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  22. #47
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    I will add... If your intent is to flip this car, the LESS you do, the better. Too often, well-intentioned people give the car a complete "tune-up" and ruin some of the "value" of an all-original time capsule. Examples would be things like belts, hoses, battery cable, plug wires, etc that many consider disposable.
    Documentation and originality are the value in a low-mileage car. Condition is secondary and should be improved by conditioning, not replacement, where possible. If you don't 100% know what you're doing, back away; you can easily do more harm than good.
    Last edited by 1986Saleen; 08-31-2020 at 10:31 AM.
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  23. #48

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    What about ordering the original invoice from Marti. If it was in fact ordered with Recaros, that should appear on the invoice, right?
    1985 GT owned since new

  24. #49
    FEP Super Member Bryan Knebworth's Avatar
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    As Broncojunkie mentioned, its possible the Recaros were swapped from the '82 to the '79. Post some interior pics of the '82 when you get a chance.
    (Also, don't repaint that '82--the original paint looks salvageable).
    Last edited by Bryan Knebworth; 09-16-2020 at 08:49 AM. Reason: text added

  25. #50
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    Davesgro, you have a terrific car. You are very welcome here. We are thrilled you brought it to our attention.

    You have come to realize there are many people here who are quite passionate about the four eyes. There aren't that many of us, really. I've been privileged to over the years meet several of the folks here, great guys (and gals too). Yes the comments can come across as blunt, but that comes with the territory of communication without the benefit of voice and body language.

    I want to specifically second the comments of 1986Saleen. He and I have a particular interest in original condition cars. Trey's advice is also spot-on.

    Good luck and keep us posted.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
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