Electric fuel pump for carbed 302

[Solow302]

My two week old cheapo mechanical fuel pump from the local parts store (Chinese part maybe?) failed as I got to work today spewing fuel out the weep hole like a arterial wound directly at the header. I was lucky it didn't burn me to the ground. Can we even buy decent parts these days that will last longer then the drive home to install them? I got a coworker to drive me to a parts store at lunch where I picked up a Holley MightyMite 32 GPH electric pump and some hose to do a quick temp repair deleting the mechanical pump for the drive back home (worked fine BTW). After roasting in the sun while installing the pump and using the 12V switched source from the electric choke on my Edelbrock as a power source it roared back to life without spewing flammable liquids everywhere. Has anyone else used one of these pumps for a "lightly improved" 302 (headers, Summit 3601 cam, intake, 650 cfm 4 BBL) and had some decent service out of it? I'll do a more permanent install this weekend and see how it does. Also gonna make a block off plate for the mechanical pump which goes back for a refund!

[854vragtop]

Something tells me that you write for a living. Just a hunch. At any rate, where did you mount your electric pump? In the engine compartment or near the fuel tank? This is something I'm considering for my '85 GT as well as my '68 Cougar. My Cougar has gone through so may fuel pumps that I've lost count. They've all been Carter pumps too. Exact same problem too. Diaphragm blows and fuel leaks from the weep hole.

[richpet]

When I built my '83 hatch (and when I do the fuel system on the current car) it is mounted near the tank to push the fuel. Worked great!
An actual block off plate is quite cheap.

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[stangPlus2Birds]

Something tells me that you write for a living.

Imho, very unlikely. :-)
Professional writers view parenthesis as "Evil Incarnate"!
On the other hand, us geek Engineers, often view parenthesis as one of the few ways we can make the Horrible English language at least partially not mega-f******ed up.

Also, there are missed commas.

Also, only Self-obsessed BAD professional writers write sentences past an ~3rd grade-level. Those idiots also often write the "opinion" articles. The purpose is to clear, and easy to understand, text.

Also, "a arteria". Wow, that would be a major mistakes for a professional writer - especially for any professional writer that has to do "media stories". Professional writers have to crank those stories out very quickly, often with little editorial review. Hence, why so many typos (extra words, missing words) now make it to print/web.

And, many writing jobs are now done overseas. :-( :-(
It's ?<10%? of the cost to have a manual/etc written in India.

I know/known and work/worked-with Tech writers and editors for a few decades. :-)

Fwiw, I think the above is interesting about a profession, where I've worked with those types of professional for decades.



On to the Tech!
For the OP, :-)
For an electric fuel pump, get only a top name brand, and buy only from a reputable place!
Trust me, having an cheap external electric fuel pump die, is no fun.

Good Luck!

[xctasy]

My two week old cheapo mechanical fuel pump from the local parts store (Chinese part maybe?) failed as I got to work today spewing fuel out the weep hole like a arterial wound directly at the header. I was lucky it didn't burn me to the ground. Can we even buy decent parts these days that will last longer then the drive home to install them? I got a coworker to drive me to a parts store at lunch where I picked up a Holley MightyMite 32 GPH electric pump and some hose to do a quick temp repair deleting the mechanical pump for the drive back home (worked fine BTW). After roasting in the sun while installing the pump and using the 12V switched source from the electric choke on my Edelbrock as a power source it roared back to life without spewing flammable liquids everywhere. Has anyone else used one of these pumps for a "lightly improved" 302 (headers, Summit 3601 cam, intake, 650 cfm 4 BBL) and had some decent service out of it? I'll do a more permanent install this weekend and see how it does. Also gonna make a block off plate for the mechanical pump which goes back for a refund!

Hah ha. I know your history, and your not a bot my brother,

I'm an older engineer in Tennessee. Been on similar forums in past but am getting my '83 Mustang back on the road. It's been about 4 years since I drove it last and I got too busy to fix all the little stuff it needed. I have repaired quite a few things lately and look forward to driving it again. It's a V8 T-top car with a newer WC T5 I put in about 10 years ago. I'll be mounting some 17x9 wheels soon when I pick out some tires (fender lips will need rolling I'm sure). Needs brakes and a few other small things. Also going to install some weld in subframe connectors. It's rough but fun to drive. I'm trying to get all mechanical issues in good shape before doing anything to the looks (if ever).

so here it is.

"Pegasus Article No. TECH00150 - Facet Low-Pressure Fuel Pumps Frequently Asked Questions"

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...ocID=TECH00150




Facet is an out-ro from the Federal Trade Commission's anti trust breakup of Bendix in 1974 and Fords essentially Presolite-Autolite concern in 1969 due to perceived unconscionable advantage. Facet "Cube-Style" electric fuel pumps, are US made Bendix patent, and a white box item supplied variously to Edelbrock, Holley and used internationally on Polaris and Kohler engines.


Holley 12-429 is the Facet "Cube-Style" FAX-40106. Its only a 192 hp net fuel pump with no reserve for a 302 engine really running well, slightly less than the common white box Facet "Cube-Style" FAX-40107, a 204 hp fuel pump with no reserve capacity for more .

Holley 12-428 is the 32 gph white box supply version of Facet's "Posi-Flo" FAC-FEP06SV (60106) . Its only a 192 hp net fuel pump with no reserve for a 302 engine really running well.

Personal opinion, plesze zone out if its a preach not teach...


I'm a traditionalist when it comes to crash safety and how the fuel line scavenges the last ounces of gas in your 1% from empty tank on a 3% cross fall or a 15% nose down or tail up gradient. On n electric fuel pump, often the the net positive suction head is always an issue with Facets, but they are compact and well thought of if mounted right. Back in 1974 or so, David Vizard suggested it best in the Mini 1275 engine days to just Double up a cheap Smiths electric fuel pump, Ferrari style, and you'll cover off well over 150 hp with ease.

A more modern recommendation is to buy two genuine Facet FF1600 Replacements, a 120 hp capable at 28 gph low pressure fuel pump, and dual feed your 4180C 4BBL float bowl. Facet pump number 40104 (supersedes Facet number 480614). This pump is packaged as Facet kit number FEP42SV, which includes mounting hardware, a 5/16" barbed outlet fitting, and 74 micron inlet filter with a 5/16" hose barb.

[Solow302]

What a great bunch of replies! So far I "mounted" the pump near the mechanical pump and a bit lower using zip ties because I wanted to get the car back home where I could work on it under cover and out of the hot sun of a parking lot! Didn't have much time to research the best solution whilst at work! I am looking at mounting it (or maybe a better quality mo betta pump) near the fuel tank on the passenger side behind the rear tire. That's where the rubber hose leaves the tank anyhow and it should easily self prime which is a problem if you mount it up front like I did - ask me how I know.

Yes I are an engineer what can't do my grammer so good. Thus I rely on years of writing operational procedures etc. and a few unread unappreciated engineering papers to try to relate what I think to the rest of the world. I confess I am more relaxed in my writing "style" on forums though.

Obviously I didn't do my homework researching the forum on electric pumps and I appreciate the Facet pump link xtasy posted on these pumps. Mine is the Holley 12-427 model claiming 32 gph and capable of supplying a 400HP naturally aspirated engine - according to the box top verbiage! Wow that's race car stuff for sure! I am also using a shiny new Mr. Gasket pressure regulator to keep pressure to the carb set to 5-1/2 psig. More race car stuff!

BTW I found this horrifying abuse of the English language on the Facet website (written by bonafide professional writers I presume) :
[h=More Helful Technical Documents:]2[/h]
"Helful" documents? Hmmm.

Anyhow we'll see how this pump works out for me and I'll report back to let everyone know where I mount it and/or if I have issues. I'll also try to research electric pumps to see what is the best stuff recommended for my set-up (5-1/2 psig for Edelbrocks that is).

[homer302]

No worries with running an electric pump at all. And you mentioned that your mechanical pump was "Chinese" so I just want to mention that I can pretty much guarantee you that electric Holley pump you bought has "MADE IN CHINA" printed proudly on the back as well. You MAY need a regulator to get the pressure down to an acceptable rate for the carb though. I have a friend with a '67 Mustang who uses one as richpet mentions to push fuel. He actually has his wired to a switch and he only turns it on when the car gets super hot and starts to vapor lock. It still has the mechanical pump too. It Works every time. He does not have a regulator. I have another friend who ripped off the EFI on his 5.0 to put on a carb and roots style blower just because he likes how it looks. He kept the OEM in tank fuel pump that came factory in the car. He DID have to install a regulator because the pump would fill up the carb and then overflow it on to the intake. Hope that helps.

[dtmilsap]

I use a holley regulator with my stock 86 fuel pump car has carb. The regulator is adjustable for carb or efi systems

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[thecornerman]

Might I mention the use of a relay!
Using a relay triggered by your electric choke makes it safer
One could get creative on how it's controlled

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[xctasy]

4 times the US Gal per hour flow is the safe factor net hp of the engine.

I REALLY don't think its prudent to use a 32 gal per hour pump.


However, to guote another Ford drag racer I respect:-.

30 gph = 6.1 lb/gal x 30 = 183 lb/hr

At 0.500 lb/hp hr
183/ 0.500 = 366 HP

If you are making 366 hp or less that pump is fine.

I use a similar cheap pump on my '30 Ford tub w/ a 5.0L Mustang GT engine - no problems.

Its different if your in high heat, higher altitude areas, on a highway and if your engine is running 0.60 pounds of fuel per hp per hour, like the 5.0 does on occasions.




Eg:- According to the early 3.9 (240) and 4.9 liter (300) cubic inch Big Six Truck details, a carb fuel pump free Flow Rate should exceed the equivalent of 29 US Gals PH/109 liters PH and Maximum Pressure (psi) should exceed 7 psi at that delivery rate.

These on engines that didn't make more than 145 or 170 hp gross, or 95 to 114 hp net.

I doubt any 32 US gal per hour electric pump will feed any Ford 5.0 except an anemic 2-bbl 140 hp engine tootling. There is no reserve capacity for a full rich situation where the power valve and and four jets are supplying fuel to a righteous Vee-Eight.

For base 2-bbl non S code 390's and Windsor and Cleveland 351 2V's and 351M's and 400's, which were 250-265 hp gross, and way less than 175 hp net, 35 gallons per Hr US is a minimum.


Good fortune with your fuel delivery system

Just a note. FUEL IS A PRIMARY SAFETY MATTER, AND SHOULD NOT BE GLOSSED OVER OR MISINTERPRETED.

If you have to go electric or bigger flow mechanical, then you have to pressure or fuel backflow regulate.

For regulating it, follow the big flow low pressure rule the turbo racer Does10's from Arizona taught some of the guys on another forum.

On a carb instillation, you need a return line to lower the pressure, not regulate the flow. If you have an EFI style Mallory 250 GPH fuel pump, you'd run a fuel return as big as your fuel supply line to your carb. If its less than the gallons per hour specs on a Mallory 250, you'd then look at the a line smaller, the same as the vapour line from the tank. It would have to be steel or rated rubber, and deposit fuel below the fuel filler, preferably the way it does on a factory instillation.


In a full accelleration launch, return line fuel has to go into the tank, and in an accident, there should be a inertial cut out, and an oil pressure cut out to any electric pump.

Mallory MAA-4309 3 PSI to 12 PSI return style regulator.

Snap!