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  1. #1

    Default Vacuum Advance Help For A 1979 2.8 Mustang

    Hey to all FEP members.I need some help with something easy,but couldn't find the answer via the search forum tool & since I know most everything about EFI,but little about a carb,I figured you guys could likely give me the answer I need quicker & more accurately than elsewhere,since the majority of the years/models that are discussed on this site are not EFI.A friend of mine bought a 1979 Mustang with a 2.8 engine and he's trying to figure out the vacuum ports on the carb,since he bought the car in a non running state due to the lack of a carb.He's already purchased an oem Motorcraft 2150 carb for it & has already installed it,but needs to figure out where the vacuum hoses belong to the carb so that the vacuum advance hose on the distributor can be routed to the correct vacuum port on the carb.So with that being said,do any of you guys/gals have either a vacuum diagram or pictures that would visually aid in the correct routing of the hoses to the carb?? Another question would be,regardless of which year/model/engine this carb is installed on,does the same vacuum port on the carb always get used for the vacuum advance and is the same true for other brands/models of carbs too or does the ports location on the carb (orientation wise) change solely depending on which model or engine that particular carb is fitted to?? Sorry Im terrible with carb knowledge.Thats just one of the reasons why Im glad I was able to finally become a member here after years of trying.Im confident of the things I'll learn from members like the ones that will hopefully reply here.So thanks for any help you can give on this matter.WB

  2. #2

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    Wow.I cant believe noone on this site,considering the fact that the knowledge base is more intune with carbed applications,can give an answer to a vacuum line location or its also possible the correct member hasnt passed through this forum yet?? I figured the answer might have been somewhat generic since I thought a Motorcraft 2150 carb was likely a pretty common piece on the older Foxbodys.Well I'll continue to check.Thanks for those whom have viewed.

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    its gonna be a long one man, 52 pages. Miss a detail, miss a que. Darran is very meticulous.






    Pages2-4, 30-36 are best. The distributor tends to stick, so be aware.





    The Z vin code 2.8L V6 engine has either the C-3 automatic transmission (V), or the SROD manual.


    2.8 liters had Duraspark II, a US Distributor with a US carb. Tag D9YE-DA = Motorcraft F2-2150 1977-1979spec, or another VV2700 for 79 in CA.

    A 100% West German engine with USA spec heads and pistons.

    V indicates engine was set up for the C3 Bordeux French automatic.
    Basic engine tag is
    KK952AC (Canada)
    KK952AD (UK export)


    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine,

    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    So after cleaning the car up and marvelling at how original and great shape it is in I took some pictures of a few of the various part numbers and factory labels plainly still visible.

    Air cleaner inlet. I know I saw a thread of someone who was recreating this type of stamping but I could not find it. The top of the cover will need refinishing.


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...0a47e.jpg.html

    Valve cover. Engine build tags. Not sure if those handwritten numbers are factory done or copied in later:


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...52397.jpg.html

    Heater hose:


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...31acc.jpg.html

    Lower rad hose. The upper has been replaced.


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...f84be.jpg.html

    Under hood emission decal:


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...1acd9.jpg.html

    Wiper motor. Again, like the engine decal; was this factory done or someone for reference redid it? Early in the build; new part for foxes??


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...b4730.jpg.html

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The basic parts go here



    Quote Originally Posted by 82GTforME View Post
    We made a decent dent. I want to be meticulous with labelling everything and taking lots of pictures for our use later for reassembly. I'm glad the electrical is quite simple on these. The vacuum stuff is all still intact including the smog pump!

    We went from this:


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...56bac.jpg.html

    To this in one afternoon (which I thought was decent):


    http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/82...a6aee.jpg.html

    Boy there is a lot of room in there with a six cylinder!

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Please note the the 2.8 Z code doesn't have the excellent full VECI diagrams found on other Fox body sites like Red78'


    It was a fully imported from West Germany engine and trans only if automatic. If manual, it had a US SROD Tremec or Orion T 170 4 speed wide ratio trans, not the West German ET78.

    The EGR, up and downstream AIR, carb, intake manifold, iron exhaust headers, alternator, air pump, distributor, starter motor were all local US content, the heads and pistons were West German made, but exclusive to US/Canada and re-imported to Europe UK/EU DSO 9x items

    http://myzephyrs.com/vacuum_diagrams.htm

    That's only the Zephyr, Fairmont and Futura, nothing else. There are 19 different kinds of Foxes, and only the Capri and Mustang for 1979 had the 2.8 Z code engine. The Pinto 2.8 was differently set up for exhaust and lost 10 hp, it wasn't 104 or 109 hp, but it is similar. 1983 Ranger truck and later Bronco II, totally different 2.8 with chain driven cam and different distributor.


    So exclusive to the 1979 2.8 Cologne, your totally on your own. The interplay with Ported, Manifold and Spark and EGR advance was very hard to understand. Your distributor would have missed out on dual advance, but the rest of it is complicated and specific.

    When I did my German Colonge 2.3 V6 Turbo and 2.8's in my 1982 Ford Cortina Ghia, I used Propane fuel, and the West German Bosch Duraspark, totally different to my American 1979 Mustang engine with "C5" (so-called) Bronco II truck automatic.

  6. #6

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    There are two basic ways to hook up the vacuum advance on a distributor; hook it directly to manifold vacuum, or hook it directly to the "ported" vacuum source on the carburetor. Unless you have stringent emissions requirements, I'd suggest hooking it straight to ported vacuum to get it going.

    The factory didn't use such simple schemes. They typically use both sources along with temperature valves, check valve, and restrictors. They were constantly changing it so even if you have two cars of the same model from the same year they could have the vacuum plumbed differently.

    For this reason, and my unfamiliarity with that particular carburetor, I can't say which port on the carb is the ported vacuum. Ported vacuum means that the vacuum is cut off at idle and manifold vacuum when the throttle is opened. This is easy to find with a vacuum gauge. With the engine idling you should see ZERO on the vacuum gauge, as soon as you crack the throttle it should jump WAY up like to 20"Hg or more. Heck, even if you don't have a vacuum gauge it's still easy to find just by sticking your finger over the hole. If it doesn't feel "sucky" with the throttle close but does when you crack the throttle, then that's the one you hook the distributor to.

  7. #7
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    I looked for some images of the vacuum connections that are being asked specifically about but could not find anything that detailed.

    The car is stored away from my house but next time I have it out, I will look to take a few more pictures showing the carb vacuum tree and the vacuum advance port.

    I must be one of the only ones that has a running 2.8 right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) GT T-Top:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...um-Blue-Bomber!

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    For some reason..... today is the very first time my browser has told me there as a new post in this area.

    What I've always done in the past (granted many years ago) was to hook a vacuum gauge up to the ports on the carb. You want a port that gives you more vacuum as you open up the carb and less vacuum as its just sitting there idling.

    There are various pieces of hardware from the manufacturers to limit advance vacuum to zero until the engine is warm. Those are helpful in cold climates to prevent the engine from popping out the carb and quitting when its cold. In warmer climates where a choke isn't really needed very often they will not serve as any real use.

    Base timing has a lot to do with how much vacuum advance you want, but you're best off working backwards to figure out what vacuum advance you are working with.

    Hook a vacuum pump to the distributor and bring it to full advance. Set your timing to a spot with a timing light like say 10 degrees with the advance in this state. Now let the vacuum off and read where your timing is at. Now you know what the vacuum advance range is for the distributor.

    Next find a way to bring the mechanical advance to full advance. See where you are this way and also where you are if its operating normally.

    You now know the advance range of the distributor mechanical + vacuum. This will help you set a reasonable base timing.

    A lot of low compression low performance engines will tolerate a bit more timing than a higher compression counterpart but don't go crazy. You should only need around 32-35 degrees of total timing advance to make it run happy.

    Bring your base timing up to where you'll have reasonable timing once all of the advance is there.

    If you have weak low-end performance there are tricks to limit how much mechanical advance a distributor can bring in. One article is described here: http://www.bob2000.com/dist.htm

    Ford also made different vacuum advance servos that brought in different amounts of advance too. One that brings in less advance would let you run more base advance without ending up with too much total advance. (which causes it to ping)

    Good luck

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    You'll nail this now.

    1976 to 1979, same basic systems. These two are 1976 Mercury Capri II hatch VECI details






    This is probably the best help you'll get given the circumstances.

    Ford progressively and absolutely mastered the art of making Vacuum Emission Control Information (VECI) connections simple to follow. They moved from just 31 items in 1973
    ratcheted up to 53 in 1979 CA passenger cars,
    57 in 1983 Ranger SUV's,
    105 items by the last carb 4 V 5.0's in 1985 passenger cars.


    You only need the vac advance bits, so this will help you.


    The 1983 2.8 liter 2150 Motorcraft 2bbl 1.08 carb uses a raft of SOL V's not present in the 1979 version.


    I think for you and your friend, its the best start.

    See https://www.therangerstation.com/tec...hose-diagrams/




    For 1979, there are just 53 Vacuum Diagram Definitions on http://myzephyrs.com/vac_part_name.htm No colors except in the internal memo Ford used

    For 1980, added pictures, no colors


    For 1983, there are 57 Vacuum Diagram Definitions.

    And color codes

    care of Stormin'Norman's source of color identification

    Red = Main vacuum
    Green = EGR function
    Orange = Heat control Valve (exhaust & intake) (AKA heat riser but more complex)
    YellowYellow = Distributor advance
    White = EGR vacuum (source)
    Black = Mainly used for the Evaporative emissions control
    Brown = Thermactor ACV or Diverter valve
    Blue = Throttle Kicker control
    Pink = Thermactor Air Bypass Valve (BPV)


    Yellow equals Vacuum Advance control

    Green is HVAC or Evap Charcoal canister vacuum.

    Fresh Air is Teal or Turquiose or Light Blue.

    That will narrow down your options.

    Everything on an Emissions era car needs a certain amount of controls. Only Copying another 2.8 carb 1979 Darrans will work.





    Abbreviation Description
    A/CL Located in the air cleaner
    A/CL DV Air Cleaner Diverter Valve
    A/CL BI MET Air Cleaner Bi-Metallic Valve
    A/CL CWM Air Cleaner Cold Weather Modulator
    ACT Air Charge Temperature Sensor, prior to 1992
    ACTS Air Cleaner Temperature Sensor
    ACV Air Control Valve
    AIR Thermactor, short for Thermal Reactor. CA vehicles are installed with it as standard. Air Injection Reaction is what it stands for.
    AIR BPV AIR Bypass (AIRB) Valve; also called the TAB (Thermactor Air Bypass) Valve
    BV Bowl Vent (on top of the float tanks)
    CARB Carburetor
    CBD Closed Bowl Distributor
    CPRV Canister Purge Valve
    DIST Distributor
    DPFE Differential Pressure Feedback
    DV-TW Two Way Delay Valve
    EFCA Electronic Fuel Control Assembly / (Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR)
    EGR Exhaust Gas Recirculation
    EGRC/EGRV EGR Vent/EGR Control
    EXH HCV Exhaust Heat Control Valve
    EVP EGR Valve Position
    EGR Valve Position
    EVR EGR Vacuum Regulator; also called EGR Vacuum Solenoid
    FLTR Filter
    FPR Fuel Pressure Regulator (check vacuum line)
    HEAT VLV INT Heat Vacuum Control Valve Intake, (next to carb)
    HICV Hot Idle Control Valve
    IAT Intake Air Temperature Sensor (Air Charge Temperature (ACT), prior to 1992
    IVV Thermactor Idle Vacuum Valve
    LCV EGR Load Control
    MAN VAC Manifold vacuum-Vacuum source; usually ref. to as Vacuum Tree atop intake manifold
    MAP Manifold Absolute Pressure
    PCV Positive Crankcase Ventilation
    PURGE Vapor Canister Purge Valve
    PV Ported Vacuum
    PVS Ported Vacuum Switch (PVS) Valve
    S Spark port
    SA-FV Separator Assembly Fuel/Vacuum
    SOLV Thermactor Solenoid Valve
    SV CBV Carborator Fuel Bowl Solenoid Vent Valve
    TCAC Thermostatically Controlled Air Cleaner
    TCP Temperature Compensated Accelerator Pump
    TK Throttle Kicker
    TVS Throttle Valve Solenoid (aka Solepot, Dashpot) OR Temperature Vacuum Switch
    TVV Thermal Vacuum Valve OR Thermostatic Vacuum Valve (aka Ported Vacuum Switches; Thermal Vacuum Valve)
    VAC Vacuum
    VCKV Vacuum Check Valve
    VCV Vacuum Control Valve
    VDV Vacuum Delay Valve
    V CK V or VCV Vacuum Check Valve
    VOTM Vacuum Operated Throttle Modulator
    VRDV Distributor Vacuum Delay Valve (VDV, VRDV, DV-TW)
    VRDV Vacuum Delay Valve (VDV, VRDV, DV-TW)
    VRESER Vacuum Reservoir (coffee can style in earlier years; replaced by plastic style)
    VRESV REST on earlier years such as SEABRONC’s 83 is a Vacuum Restictor/delay valve, it delays vacuum for a certain amount of time
    VRV Vacuum Regulator Valve
    WOT Wide Open Throttle Valve

  10. #10
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    I had a chance to look at our set up in detail yesterday and to refresh my memory.

    Vacuum advance is hooked up straight to manifold vacuum. The actuator is connected to a tee but routes directly to the vacuum tree on the back of the carburetor.

    Hopefully you can get your car up and running.



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