While the news source we choose is tangential to this, it is kind of a different subject.
Person A using person B who killed person C as an excuse to create innocent victims X, Y, Z, has somehow become an accepted behavior for many. Person A can't justify destroying business and lives hundreds of miles away, let alone next door, for those reasons.
If I were to follow this 'protest logic:. If a guy shoots my brother in cold blood, I and dozens of people who do not know me can use that as an excuse to damage yet other people's property, injure and/or kill them. All because that guy shot my brother. Nope. 100% unjustified.
Instead of rampant stupidity focus the ire, appropriately, on the source of the ire. Not police in general, but the specific tragic event.
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83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!
Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
While I am not delving into the root issue here, I will comment on similar issues of upholding the law in Canada. We had many, many road and railway blockades around our country before Covid to stand up for an "indigenous" band in the west who did not want a pipeline built across their land (it was approved by the elected council but not the "hereditary" chiefs).
These "protestors" (similarly "its all these left wing layabouts with green and rainbow colored hair.antifa types") and some natives were camped on rail lines and even setting fires on them, on freeways and roads blocking regular traffic and the police did nothing; regardless of the LAWS. It just enables more or escalates the situations where if it was dealt with as it should be up front (for those breaking the laws) the possibility for repeated or escalated violence or law breaking would be reduced dramatically.
In contrast, the police and authorities were sure handing out warnings, tickets and upholding health department edicts for people not social distancing or gathering during the worst of the COVID time. Sad irony you can block commerce and trade and even attempt to derail a freight train without repercussion but can get a $1200 fine for playing soccer in a field with friends.
You have the right to choose to wallow in ignorance, but that doesn't change REALITY!
This federal agent was MURDERED by your beloved rioters for doing his job providing security at the courthouse in Oakland.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ed/5308024002/
If this BS is about police brutality then where were the riots when a Somali cop murdered Justine Diamond in Minneapolis back in 2017?AKLAND, Calif. – A federal law enforcement officer who was shot and killed while providing security at the U.S. courthouse in Oakland during a protest was identified Sunday.
Dave Patrick Underwood, 53, died from gunshot wounds sustained after someone fired shots from an unidentified vehicle Friday night, the FBI said Sunday.
Another officer was critically injured in the drive-by shooting outside the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building. An update on the officer's condition has not been released.
No one has been arrested and a motive for the shooting has not been determined. The FBI, Oakland police and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms were investigating the shooting.
The contract security officers worked for the Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Protective Service and were monitoring a nearby protest over the police killing of George Floyd in Minnesota, according to DHS officials.
Underwood was the brother of Angela Underwood Jacobs, recently a Republican candidate to fill a vacant U.S. district north of Los Angeles.
“My brother, Dave Patrick Underwood, a federal officer, was murdered 5/29/20 in Oakland California, while on duty during the riots,” she posted on Facebook Saturday. “This Violence Must Stop.”
“He was a good man, everybody in the community loved him," his friend Antwon Cloird said.
The protest in downtown Oakland began peacefully Friday but sank into chaos late into the night. City officials said at least 70 businesses were damaged or destroyed. Police said 13 officers were injured.
It wasn't immediately known if the killing was related to the protest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/u...amed-noor.html
The only "demonstrations" regarding this case was the same a-holes rioting now only in the Diamond case they "demonstrated" on behalf of the murdererMINNEAPOLIS — Mohamed Noor’s arrival as the first Somali-American officer in his Minneapolis police precinct was celebrated three years ago as a cultural bridge, a way of building trust between the police and the city’s large refugee population. The mayor even attended a welcome ceremony for him.
But on Friday, Mr. Noor, now an ex-officer and convicted murderer, was sentenced to about 12 and a half years in a Minnesota prison for the death of Justine Ruszczyk, an unarmed woman he killed while on patrol in 2017.
Far from building trust in the system, Mr. Noor’s case came to be seen by Somali-Americans as a sign of a double standard. Dozens gathered in the courthouse lobby Friday to voice displeasure with the length of Mr. Noor’s sentence, stating that they believed a white officer would have been treated differently. “Wrong Complexion For Blue Protection,” one man’s sign read.
“This case is about a black Muslim immigrant,” said Ahmednur Abdirahman, 36, who was among the protesters. “They are worried about disappointing the white community. For that reason, justice was not served today.”
Though it is rare for a police officer to be charged in a fatal on-duty shooting — Mr. Noor was the first Minnesota officer in decades convicted in such a case — the death of Ms. Ruszczyk defied easy explanation.
She was unarmed, wearing pajamas and holding nothing but a glittery cellphone. The case made international headlines, sparked protests and led to the ouster of the Minneapolis police chief. The city settled a lawsuit with her family for $20 million, among the largest ever for a police shooting in the United States.
“This was an obscene act by an agent of the state,” her father, John Ruszczyk, said, in a statement that was read aloud in court. “The killer should be held accountable. That sort of behavior is intolerable.”
Ms. Ruszczyk, who was white and had spent most of her life in Australia, called 911 twice on a summer night asking for help. When she encountered Mr. Noor in the alley behind her house, the officer fired a single, fatal shot out his cruiser’s window.
The sentence for Mr. Noor far surpassed the term of probation Mr. Noor’s lawyers sought, but it fell within state guidelines for his crimes. He was convicted by a jury in April of third-degree murder, which carried a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison, and second-degree manslaughter, which could have led to as many as 10 years in prison.
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“This case has caused damage so vast and so far-flung,” said Amy Sweasy, a prosecutor.
In the courthouse lobby, where several Somali-Americans waited to hear the judge’s decision, many saw the prison term as far too harsh. Some of them noted that white police officers in Minnesota and elsewhere had killed unarmed people and gone unpunished.
“It was fear, and it was quick, and you know, it was tragedy,” said Ifrah Mubarak, who was at the courthouse and said she was a friend of the Noor family. She said she believed Mr. Noor’s race and religion influenced his treatment by the court system.
In the few other recent cases where an American police officer has been convicted of murder, they have often avoided the harshest possible sentence. Jason Van Dyke, a white former Chicago officer convicted of second-degree murder and other crimes in the death of Laquan McDonald, a black teenager who was shot 16 times, was sentenced this year to just under seven years; prosecutors had called for at least 18 years. In Balch Springs, Tex., Roy D. Oliver II, a white officer convicted of murder in the death of Jordan Edwards, who was black and 15 years old, was sentenced last year to 15 years; the prosecution was seeking at least 60 years.
Dozens of people filed letters with the court seeking leniency from Judge Kathryn L. Quaintance for Mr. Noor. In court on Friday, Mr. Noor said he shot to defend his partner. But he acknowledged the pain he had caused Ms. Ruszczyk’s family.
“These are the people I worked to serve, and I harmed them,” said Mr. Noor, who had been in custody since the guilty verdict. “For that, I apologize.”
Mr. Noor asked Judge Quaintance for leniency. “I don’t want to lose my family,” he told her. But in denying the defense’s request for a lower sentence, the judge said the law did not allow for leniency because the defendant was a good person.
The shooting of Ms. Ruszczyk had been a mystery from the start — far different from police shootings that were recorded on cellphones or squad car dashboard cameras. There was no video or audio of what had happened.
Late on the night of July 15, 2017, Ms. Ruszczyk, who was about to get married and sometimes used her fiancé’s surname, twice called 911 to report what she thought was a sexual assault in the alley behind her Minneapolis home.
Mr. Noor and his partner were sent to the area to investigate, and the shooting soon followed. It was never entirely clear how the officers and Ms. Ruszczyk had wound up crossing paths, but testimony at Mr. Noor’s trial suggested that she came outside in the darkened alley to talk to the officers, and startled them.
At his trial, Mr. Noor said he feared for his life when he saw Ms. Ruszczyk approaching his cruiser and made a split-second decision to shoot. “She could have had a weapon,” Mr. Noor said in court.
Lawyers for Mr. Noor have acknowledged that Ms. Ruszczyk in fact posed no threat. She had been holding a cellphone and standing outside a rolled-down window of the squad car when she was shot.
Mr. Noor’s lawyers said the events were a tragedy but not a crime. Prosecutors said that Mr. Noor had acted unreasonably — firing at a shadowy figure without even yelling a warning — and that it was murder.
The shooting of Ms. Ruszczyk set off outrage as far away as Australia, where she had lived for most of her life. The trial drew intense attention among Minnesota’s Somali-American residents, many of whom wondered whether Mr. Noor would be treated fairly.
And the events forced changes in the policies and leadership of the Minneapolis Police Department. The chief was forced out, and the department rewrote its body camera policy. Both Mr. Noor and his partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, had been wearing cameras that night, but neither officer had them turned on when the shooting occurred.
One group that formed after the shooting, called Justice for Justine, issued a statement Friday that called the sentence appropriate and “an integral part of bringing more accountability to our policing system.” But members said the case exposed entrenched problems in law enforcement that continued to fester in Minneapolis.
“It was not just Officer Noor on trial in this case,” they said, “but the entire justice system.”
I hope this isn't out of line ---
But I notice the killed police officer appears to be a man of color.
Is there a protest planned? I bet he wouldn't want rioting on his behalf since that is what he died for. Very, very tragic and my heart goes out to him and his family (both families).
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83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!
Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
Deleted post. I think I crossed it a touch there and apologize.
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Last edited by richpet; 06-01-2020 at 03:14 PM.
83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!
Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
I have to remind everyone that this discussion, although important needs to remain civil and politic free. Otherwise it will be closed and/or deleted per the FEP Tenants.
I am not calling anyone out nor pointing fingers, we just need to keep this a polite and respectful conversation. We are a diverse group here on FEP and we need to respect our different opinions, experiences, etc. in these type of discussions. We are living in a stressful time with a lot of different stuff going on. FEP hopefully provides us some pleasure and enjoyment in our daily lives. Please let's all keep it that way. There are plenty of other outlets to visit if you feel you can't be polite and respectful.
Thank you!
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
Certain people can try to twist my words to suit their perspective, but I never said I'm supporting the rioters, just the protesters. The rioting is unfortunate, but predictable. And if it's not enough that the police killed George Floyd, there are countless others that have died at the hands of police, for as long as there have been police in this country. Not to mention the systemic racism built in to our judicial and criminal system as well. I call it like I see it, and this situation reeks of racism, as do many peoples response to it being called racism. Our own police force here has been under investigation for racist practices, NUMEROUS times over my lifetime, and have been proven to be true every time, including the last one just a couple years ago. A racist police force is just the norm here. Hell our original state constitution banned all blacks from Oregon, even slaves. It's woven deep in to our states fabric, and change has been extremely slow, if at all. Blacks couldn't even buy property, out side of the red lined district, till the late 70's early 80's. Change is slow, and often it's a one step forward, two steps back situation. It breaks my heart, and makes my trigger finger itchy, when I see the BS my daughter and her kids have to endure, the hate from others, for only the color of their skin. At any rate, I'm done on this thread. There's no point to even discussing some subjects, with certain types of people.
Racism comes in all shapes, sizes, and Races ( Ethnic group )
Police officers come in all shapes, sizes, and Races ( Ethnic group ).
Criminals come in all shapes, sizes, and Races ( Ethnic group )
Racism is not the core problem. The core problem is the criminal element in this country.
It is unacceptable behavior by single individuals be they criminals or corrupt Police.
86 LX Coupe 4E
84 SVO Watkins Glen Pace Car 1E
85 SVO Hertz 4E
85.5 SVO 2R orig owner
86 SVO 7B
66 Fastback
55 Willys Jeep Overland Wagon
As a mixed race man born in the 70s, life has taught me that racism isn't the only reason things happen.
The mob has been wrong in the past, despite refusing to accept it. So I refuse to go along with them. Especially with Crump involved. Ever since he suborned perjury in an earlier case, I automatically side against whoever brings him in.
and if it comes out that race wasn't a factor?
I'm only saying it because there is an unsubstantiated rumor that Chauvin and Floyd used to work together. Could be Chauvin blamed Floyd for something and let his personal garbage take over.
Would still make him a bad cop who shouldn't have a badge and quite possibly a murderer. But it doesn't tar the rest of the dept or other cops as racist.
Interesting how emotions keep skewing the subject.
Protest= ok, good, fine, sometimes needed.
Rioting= criminal, never ok, hypocritical, stomping on another's liberties for self gain (though some will try to call it protesting. I fail to see how person A stealing a TV says something against an unjust death).
I bet that because I am predominantly white and an leo there will be some folks who assume I am racist. Isn't that being a little pre-judgy? Isn't that what many minorities are fighting against? I see a parallel.
I happily work for a comparably smaller agency and am very happy to say that the few acts of outright racism I have seen have been dealt with appropriately. My states history aside (since I had zero to do with it and am GLAD it is changed) how can someone automatically jump to these conclusions and then use that as justification to hurt others, many of whom are minorities themselves?
Rioting that involves destruction of Innocents property/security is never right, yet somehow our world/nation seems to be accepting it as ok.
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83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!
Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
'Taking a knee'.
Confusing contrast of meanings and results.
Normally used in football to end a play. Dead ball.
Cultural part of a marriage proposal.
Commonly done in religious proceedings.
Used by US military for various reasons.
Part of a bow in front of Kings and Queens.
Seen done during national anthem by athletes.
Seen done by police at the request of protesters. Peace gesture.
Seen done by police causing great harm, started recent major mayham.
Protests against virus lock downs= Peaceful for the most part.
Protests against police brutalities= Not peaceful for the most part.
Walks, demonstrations, marches, protests, riots.
Very different mix of people for each. Result varies per location.
The majority (including minorities) rule as to intent? Silent?
"Outsiders?" People visit other places and people all the time. Only 'insiders' were expected?
What does 'local' mean? 'Locals' can be out-of-towners too. From nearby suburbs and cities within cities?
Visible and invisible lines, divisions, legal, illegal, being drawn, criss-crossing, moving back and forth.
And water wins again. No DC-10 or water cannons.
No real trouble in Detroit last night.
Rain rained on the 'parade'.
No frozen water bottles and rr spikes thrown.
I don't know the back story of any of the people involved. Who says this is racially motivated? Maybe this cop would do this to any white, brown, or yellow person also. Its not a black/white thing, its a police brutality thing.
Why did the other officers stand by? Was he the ranking officer on scene?
Looting and personal harm has no part in correcting the situation.
I hope clear heads prevail soon, and stop this destruction.
Last edited by mcb82gt; 06-02-2020 at 11:30 AM.
Mike
Now stang-less.
88 Cougar 5.0
My opinion for what it's worth.
First, we all have to take personal responsibility for our thoughts, actions, and deeds. NO ONE made us do it, etc. You and only YOU are responsible for YOU and your actions.
Second, we all need to stop painting others, especially those that we disagree with or don't see eye to eye with a broad brush. We are all individuals with our own thoughts, ideas, dreams, goals, and agendas. Just because we may fit into a larger group or sect of our society doesn't mean that everyone in said group/sect thinks/believes or feels the same.
Third, we ALL need to shut up and listen to those that we disagree with. There can be NO Discussion, NO Negotiations, NO Improvements if all we do is yell and scream anytime someone says ANYTHING we disagree with. If we can't have a dialog with calm cool, respectful interactions we will never get anything done.
Last, Live and Let Live! We don't all have to agree to live side by side. We don't all have to believe in the same God, no God, or what have you. We don't all have to vote the same way, We can agree to disagree, yet be respectful and tolerant to those we disagree with.
Obviously my statements do not include anything deemed illegal or harmful to others. Any violence or harm towards another is unjustified and should not be tolerated. I don't want to get into semantics in regards to legality, etc. but hopefully everyone understands my basic statements.
Trey
"I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"
"I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."
Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
Current Mustangs:
1969 Mach 1
1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently
Current Capris:
1981 Capri Roller
1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts
Very good points!
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83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!
Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
I'm also not sure why you quoted me? I was specifically referring to Acts of Racism and / or criminal behavior outside of ones head. Since thoughts aren't illegal that I know of at this time in Human history.
It is only when those harmful thoughts are acted upon against another person that they are wrong ( Prosecutable ). Captain Obvious Reporting...
Last edited by Ken P; 06-02-2020 at 11:48 AM.
86 LX Coupe 4E
84 SVO Watkins Glen Pace Car 1E
85 SVO Hertz 4E
85.5 SVO 2R orig owner
86 SVO 7B
66 Fastback
55 Willys Jeep Overland Wagon
Forgotten history?
Baby boomers remember:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas
Plus sports championship 'over-celebrations'.
Boy those suv's are pretty heavy to overturn.
The cop who Killed Floyd should be charged with 3rd degree murder, in my opinion. Now that I have that clear, I might add that there are too many cops like him. I'm not talking about racist cops. It hasn't been determined whether or not race was a factor. We can all agree that racism is a hot button. I don't think it's too much to ask, considering the situation, that we confirm "racism" before burning every major city to the ground.
Now...getting that off my chest, let's get back to the type of cop. He's the type that see common criminals as the enemy. He probably sees the common citizen as a suspect, or lesser human because they're not part of the militarized police state that is slowly forming in our country. With a few exceptions, police in the US exist not so much for protecting and serving the citizens, but instead as a revenue collector. My neighborhood has to constantly fight off criminals trying to rob them blind. Houses get broken into, sheds, cars stolen, guns stolen, lawn equipment, etc. And I live in a nice area. I never see cops cruising my neighborhood at night looking for thieves and junkies. I can always find them out on the main road dishing out tickets to soccer moms. Busting the real criminals doesn't produce revenue. Pulling someone over because their window tint is a little too dark is straight cash money.
Cops today are also responsible for enforcing unconstitutional laws. A good example is the recent "red flag laws", where ordinary citizens are stripped of their 2nd amendment rights without due process. I realize most cops don't agree with red flag laws, but they're just doing their job. There have been a lot of atrocities around the world by armed members of govt just "doing their job".
Not all cops are bad. I'll be the first to admit it. I have friends and family in law enforcement. But we are turning into a police state and we have lost the expectation that police are there to serve the public. You can pretty much understand, knowing my stance on law enforcement, that I wouldn't automatically turn my nose up at civil unrest. However, in this particular situation, police in major cities are doing EXACTLY what they are hired to do and I 100% back them in their fight against rioters. They're putting their lives at risk to protect the property and well-being of taxpayers. They are overwhelmed and could use some military help until things cool down.
79 Pace Car - 331, t5
79 Pace Car- 302, 4 spd
79 Cobra - working on 351w, t5
82 Capri- working on 302, t5
82gt - working on 408w, c4
I am going to very politely disagree. You are welcome to your opinion of course.
And every town/state/region is different.
That is a very broad brush of opinion being used. I wonder if your law enforcement friends that you have would be honest in their agreement, or disagreement, with your opinion.
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Last edited by richpet; 06-02-2020 at 01:46 PM.
83 5.0 GT. Quicker than it looks! 10:1 (or just over) 306, Motorsport a332 cam, 140A alt, t5 conv, 8.8 w/ 3.27's, Edel rpm, alum rad, very worked e7's, Holley SA carb, etc... SOLD IT!!!!
Now an 1981 Granada! .040 over 302, Edel E-street heads... Currently building a 347 because, why not?
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
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